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2019 Brewers' pitching staff

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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 1:32 PM Post
Posts: 17967
Nelson is not going to accept an AAA assignment, nor should he be disparaged for not agreeing to do so. It's his right not to now, and the MLBPA probably would discourage him from accepting it.

This one is 100% on David Stearns and the Brewer brass for poorly managing his service time. Again, when Nelson was brought back up from AAA he was still 7 days shy of his 5th year. The plan should have been to get 2 starts out of him and immediately make a determination on whether he was ready or should continue that rotation schedule in AAA. Instead, he threw poorly once, then they sat on their hands and let Nelson not pitch for 10 days, and now here they are. It was predictable, and avoidable.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 2:04 PM Post
Posts: 1715
Location: Madison, WI
Nelson shouldn't feel the need to do anything good for the team, and he should feel the need to what is best for himself. If he has two or three bad bullpen performances, is it a lock for him to choose being released over a AAA assignment if that is presented to him as his choice? Normally I think a player is better off getting released in hopes of finding an MLB job somewhere else. But Nelson is coming off an injury that normally doesn't carry all that positive of an outlook, and he has been rotten in his return to MLB.

If Jesus Aguilar is put on waivers, there are enough bad teams and his contract is cheap enough that I have little doubt that one of the first teams that have priority would claim him and be happy to have him on their 25-man roster as a 3 month audition for the 2020 roster.

If Chase Anderson is put on waivers, I think he'd make it through because nobody would want to take his contract. But if subsequently released by the Brewers, I have no doubt that a bad team would immediately sign him and put him on the 25-man roster and be happy to have him (at least initially).

If Jimmy Nelson is put on waivers and subsequently released, I'd guess his performance has been so bad AND with the injury factor hanging over his head, that he is not going to get an MLB job, even from a bad team, for the rest of this season. I think chances are much better than 50/50 that he would be back in MiLB ball for someone else if not for the Brewers. And if not with the Brewers, then he is looking at going into next off-season as a non-roster invitee that has to pitch himself onto a 40-man roster and then onto a 25-man roster. I think with the Brewers, even if shipped to AAA, he'd be pretty safe to keep his 40-man roster spot through the rest of this season. He and his agent have to know that he is going to have a real uphill battle to get back to MLB if he leaves the Brewers. The Brewers sunk over 7 million in him the last couple of years, they will have far more motivation than any other organization in giving him repeated chances to try and stick in MLB. A released versus AAA decision should be, at least, a very difficult decision for Nelson and his agent, and personally if I were either of them I would lean towards staying with the Brewer's organization at least to the end of the season because I see the chances of him immediately landing another MLB job to be very poor at this time. He really needs to show something out of the bullpen in his next few appearances.

Also agree with adambr2 that the Brewers did a real poor job with handling his service time and option situation.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:00 PM Post
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I don't fault Nelson for declining the trip to San Antonio, he's earned that right. As JosephC pointed out it could be in his best interest at some point. And that time could come quickly. The only aspect of all this that doesn't sit right with me is the fuss Nelson made when he wasn't called up when he thought he should be. I believe it came a couple weeks after he expected and he didn't hide his anger about it. Well now it's clear he wasn't ready.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:00 PM Post
Posts: 4406
There is a pretty big downside to going to AAA for his future. It would be a lot harder to convince the Brewers to keep him on the 40 man roster if sucks as bad in AAA as he does in the majors. It would no doubt also limit interest from other teams if the Brewers do release him. If he stays in the majors and sucks there would still be doubt but not nearly as much as if he sucks in the minors. Anyway this is where we're at with him now. For everyne's sake I'm hoping he finds a productive role in the pen.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:11 PM Post
Posts: 17967
True Blue Brew Crew said:
The only aspect of all this that doesn't sit right with me is the fuss Nelson made when he wasn't called up when he thought he should be. I believe it came a couple weeks after he expected and he didn't hide his anger about it. Well now it's clear he wasn't ready.


Unless I'm missing something or some comments I don't remember it that way at all. The only thing I could find on Jimmy's reaction to being sent to San Antonio was this:

"Jimmy was disappointed, but he was mature and professional," Stearns said. "I thought he handled it as well as could be expected. He asked good questions. He told us he wants to improve.

"That’s a pretty good reaction from my perspective."


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:29 PM Post
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JosephC said:
Nelson has passed five years of service time and now cannot be optioned without his permission. .

B-R.com is horribly off on their service time count, as they say he had 4.107 years as of 1/19.

I assume they are as horribly off on Chase Anderson's service time too, as it has Anderson with 4.146 as of 1/19.

I assume either Peralta back to the rotation, or Burnes goes down and Wilkerson comes up.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:32 PM Post
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Brewers first inning ERA now sits at 5.96.

Maybe we should revisit that "opener" idea...


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 3:41 PM Post
Posts: 17967
LouisEly said:
JosephC said:
Nelson has passed five years of service time and now cannot be optioned without his permission. .

B-R.com is horribly off on their service time count, as they say he had 4.107 years as of 1/19.

I assume they are as horribly off on Chase Anderson's service time too, as it has Anderson with 4.146 as of 1/19.

I assume either Peralta back to the rotation, or Burnes goes down and Wilkerson comes up.


He did. 4.107 is 4 years + 107 days where 172 days equals one full service year. The .107 is not a decimal percentage. He acquired 58 more days on the IL before being activated and optioned, stopping his service clock at 4.165 on May 24th. It resumed on June 5th when he was called up and thus hit 5 years seven days later, which would be the equivalent of 4.172.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 5:55 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Unless I'm missing something or some comments I don't remember it that way at all.


I was referring to Nelson's own words, not Stearns'...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/m ... 337102001/

Chacín and Gio Gonzalez are now both on the injured list, clearing the way for Nelson's return. But Nelson didn't deny he was upset initially at not being brought back in late May.

"It’s a lot of emotions. It’s not just disappointment. You’re genuinely mad," he said. "You’re angry, you’re mad, just because of the long journey to get back to the point where I could pitch competitively. You feel like you’ve done a lot to earn it.

"But not just in baseball, in everything, even if you feel like you earned it, you might not get it, or you might take a different route to get to it. As long as you can channel that into positive progress, whether it’s worth physical work or mental side of it, I feel like that’s the key to a lot of players in this game of failure."


This is just pure speculation, nothing more, but I get the sense that Nelson was pressuring the Brewers to bring him back in spite of the fact he was still struggling with minor league batters. It's unfortunate but it's been proven out that he's just not ready. They kept him down longer than he wanted but unfortunately for all, he should have been down longer.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: June 22, 2019, 6:18 PM Post
Posts: 17967
Interesting, that does change my perspective a lot. I hadn't seen that. Nelson had zero right to be mad or angry about the AAA assignment. The organization paid him 7 million just to wait on him because they believed in him and were willing to be patient. They didn't push him to come back last year and they've been nothing but good to him throughout this whole process.

Disappointed/frustrated? Sure. But angry? For what?

As far as Nelson pressuring the organization to coming back too soon I certainly hope not. Stearns is paid to make the tough calls and if he's being influenced like that, he's not doing his job. Although it's certainly a bad look for Nelson if he persuaded the organization that he was good and ready and now refuses the assignment.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 11:09 AM Post
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Per Adam McCalvy: Adrian Houser will start Wednesday against the Mariners in Jimmy Nelson's spot.

Also from Adam McCalvy: Adrian Houser will be on a pitch count Wednesday against the Mariners, but it’s not just a spot start. He’s in line for two starts before the break.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 9:18 PM Post
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Excellent! Rewarding some one throwing well. His stuff looks absolutely nasty in the few appearances I’ve seen. We’re due for a surprise guy coming up and dominating for awhile after all the immense failures.

Valar Morghulis


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 9:25 PM Post
Posts: 822
Jimmy Nelson got paid for almost two years for basically not throwing a pitch in anger at the major league level. He also got hurt by diving into a base. That wasn’t the Brewers organizations fault. Just because he couldn’t do something that 6 year olds could do without being hurt for 18 months or whatever

I get what his rights are based on the CBA but no one has to like it. We have a guy here who doesn’t belong in Major League Baseball yet. I wonder how he can look every player in the face the rest of the year if he keeps going out there Being These guys want to win. Not play what equates to simulated games for jimmy Nelson to work out in real major league games that count


Last edited by RoCoBrewfan on June 24, 2019, 3:48 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please watch the cuss filter. If you find your post have asterisks in them, you have activated the cuss filter


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 9:31 PM Post
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willie key said:
Jimmy Nelson got paid for almost two years for basically not throwing a pitch in anger at the major league level. He also got hurt by diving into a base. That wasn’t the Brewers organizations fault. Just because he couldn’t do something that 6 year olds could do without being hurt for 18 months or whatever


Stephen A. Smith, Colin Cowherd and Skip Bayless would be impressed by the hotness of this take.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
Posts: 822
trwi7 said:
willie key said:
Jimmy Nelson got paid for almost two years for basically not throwing a pitch in anger at the major league level. He also got hurt by diving into a base. That wasn’t the Brewers organizations fault. Just because he couldn’t do something that 6 year olds could do without being hurt for 18 months or whatever


Stephen A. Smith, Colin Cowherd and Skip Bayless would be impressed by the hotness of this take.


People need to quit crying for jimmy Nelson like the world did him wrong. Nobody did. He got hurt. On a basic baseball play. Happens

So now the major league team is stuck with a guy the rest of the year when he doesn’t belong here. Yet. Might as well bring Wang back too


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 10:02 PM Post
Posts: 1950
Didn't see this coming.... I thought Nelson's last start results were largely poor due to a ground ball that trickled through the infield for a couple of runs. He also was an out away from throwing 5IP with 3 ER... not great but a step up.

I am all for pulling pitchers early in a game or rotation, or the opposite of Yost's moves (remember when Capuano went like 15 starts without winning a game). Pulling them from the rotation.... eh, I'm a tad different. CC might be doing some damage by having a shorter leash with Burnes, Peralta, and now Nelson, fairly early in the season without great pitchers in the wings to fill in. I would have gone with all three of these guys longer (another start or two at least) before kicking them out of the rotation. Houser has looked great, though.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 10:15 PM Post
Posts: 17967
http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1433286.html

I found this article from the dark ages about starting pitching written by Joe Morgan. I had forgotten how horrifically bad of an analyst he was.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 10:25 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1433286.html

I found this article from the dark ages about starting pitching written by Joe Morgan. I had forgotten how horrifically bad of an analyst he was.


I gave up to listening to Joe Morgan right after the Brewers signed Dave’s Lopes. He said something along the lines of “It’s great that a team hired another minority manager, but it’s too bad it’s on a team like the Brewers.” Now the Brewers were terrible at the time, but it really rubbed me the wrong way so he’s been dead to me since.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 23, 2019, 10:32 PM Post
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mtrebs said:
adambr2 said:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1433286.html

I found this article from the dark ages about starting pitching written by Joe Morgan. I had forgotten how horrifically bad of an analyst he was.


I gave up to listening to Joe Morgan right after the Brewers signed Dave’s Lopes. He said something along the lines of “It’s great that a team hired another minority manager, but it’s too bad it’s on a team like the Brewers.” Now the Brewers were terrible at the time, but it really rubbed me the wrong way so he’s been dead to me since.


Here it is: https://www.newsday.com/sports/can-t-kn ... y-1.332717


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff [Latest: Houser starting Wednesday]
Posted: June 24, 2019, 3:34 AM Post
Posts: 984
adambr2 said:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1433286.html

I found this article from the dark ages about starting pitching written by Joe Morgan. I had forgotten how horrifically bad of an analyst he was.


My IQ is lower after reading that. Ugh. Sadly there are still some "analysts" like him still around, albeit a lot fewer. They still showed up last year to say that deGrom was an unworthy Cy Young winner because of his W-L record. Luckily we live in an era now where the voters paid no mind to that and he won in a landslide, but there's still some way to go in killing the W as a tool to evaluate performance.


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