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2019 Brewers' pitching staff

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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 07, 2019, 9:59 PM Post
Posts: 2891
tmwiese55 said:
JosephC said:
Brew crew 92 said:
After last nights loss vs Cubbies, we have a better idea where this bullpen stands.

The Good:
Guerra Hader Pomeranz Claudio

Probably Good:
Peralta Suter Jackson

Wild card:
Black Nelson

Bad:
Albers Faria Burnes T Williams

I said this team needs 10 Pen arms to be able to count on this Month to shut teams down, and right now we’re at least 3 short of that. Albers without command is awful, he’s a big loss to the pen. Nelson looked ok, not as sharp as I was hoping for, but he hadn’t pitched in a week. I’ll give him another opportunity. Jackson is great vs RH batters, bad vs Lefties, so he should not Pitch vs Cubbies unless mop up. The major issue that I see: other than Suter, there’s not another quality arm that can give the team 3 innings. We’ll potentially have that when Woodruff is back, but it might be too late.


Peralta "probably good"???????????????????????????????? You realize that he has a 12.96 ERA, 2.64 WHIP in his last 9 appearances? Counsell has only used him 1 time in the last 20 days.

But at least you've finally demoted Burnes from "MLB high leverage use only" to "bad."


You realize this all game by game sweeping comical level hot take overreactions don't you? Peralta: Demoted to AAA because he was so bad, comes back up and throws 8 pitches and now he's "Good". If you don't see it you're wrong as its a 'no brainer', then 4 days later it changes.

IMO: Burnes should be listed as Good too. I read an article he went to the lab and now he's got it all figured out. High leverage ACE reliever now!!!


The good:
Hader Claudio Pomeranz Guerra Suter Peralta

Probably good:
Jackson

Could be good:
Black Nelson

Bad:
Albers T Williams Faria Burnes

Moved Peralta to the good, after his 5th straight dominating performance(3 in AAA, 2 in MKE). And Suter too(1 run in 10 outings between rehab and MKE).

6 good pen arms is better, and we can hold leads with that, but still need 1-2 more to be good to have the depth, to streak, especially with our injuries. This is now a good bullpen though.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 07, 2019, 11:01 PM Post
Posts: 18459
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 3:57 AM Post
Posts: 2891
adambr2 said:
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


I should have put Peralta in the good as soon as it was apparent he had his control back, which was down in AAA. What you call reactionary, I call obvious. Suter the same thing, but for different reasons. Since he’s thrown his first pitch in rehab almost 6 weeks ago he’s been fantastic. Think I waited long enough.

I believe it’s time for people to stop maligning this pitching staff. The pitching should now have shown itself to be the reason this team is still relevant, that, and Yelich. Kind of reminds me of last September. If we don’t make the playoffs, imo, it’ll be because we just don’t have the horses on offense, because of injury. Not because we can’t pitch.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 7:20 AM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
adambr2 said:
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


I should have put Peralta in the good as soon as it was apparent he had his control back, which was down in AAA. What you call reactionary, I call obvious. Suter the same thing, but for different reasons. Since he’s thrown his first pitch in rehab almost 6 weeks ago he’s been fantastic. Think I waited long enough.

I believe it’s time for people to stop maligning this pitching staff. The pitching should now have shown itself to be the reason this team is still relevant, that, and Yelich. Kind of reminds me of last September. If we don’t make the playoffs, imo, it’ll be because we just don’t have the horses on offense, because of injury. Not because we can’t pitch.


The pitching has been below league average for much of, if not the entire season, which it still is. Getting a few innings from Suter and Nelson doesn't change that. Just because your eye test and your daily updated rankings tell you we have a double decker bus full of bullpen aces doesn't make it so.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 7:21 AM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
adambr2 said:
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


I should have put Peralta in the good as soon as it was apparent he had his control back, which was down in AAA. What you call reactionary, I call obvious. Suter the same thing, but for different reasons. Since he’s thrown his first pitch in rehab almost 6 weeks ago he’s been fantastic. Think I waited long enough.

I believe it’s time for people to stop maligning this pitching staff. The pitching should now have shown itself to be the reason this team is still relevant, that, and Yelich. Kind of reminds me of last September. If we don’t make the playoffs, imo, it’ll be because we just don’t have the horses on offense, because of injury. Not because we can’t pitch.


And what's the reaction to being called out on the crazy?

DOUBLE DOWN!!!


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 7:34 AM Post
Posts: 8454
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 7:42 AM Post
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Posts: 13190
Location: Milwaukee, WI
FVBrewerFan said:
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


[laughing] [laughing]

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 7:53 AM Post
Posts: 2891
RoCoBrewfan said:
Brew crew 92 said:
adambr2 said:
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


I should have put Peralta in the good as soon as it was apparent he had his control back, which was down in AAA. What you call reactionary, I call obvious. Suter the same thing, but for different reasons. Since he’s thrown his first pitch in rehab almost 6 weeks ago he’s been fantastic. Think I waited long enough.

I believe it’s time for people to stop maligning this pitching staff. The pitching should now have shown itself to be the reason this team is still relevant, that, and Yelich. Kind of reminds me of last September. If we don’t make the playoffs, imo, it’ll be because we just don’t have the horses on offense, because of injury. Not because we can’t pitch.


The pitching has been below league average for much of, if not the entire season, which it still is. Getting a few innings from Suter and Nelson doesn't change that. Just because your eye test and your daily updated rankings tell you we have a double decker bus full of bullpen aces doesn't make it so.


My eyes don’t tell me we have a double decker bus full of bullpen aces. I’ve never said anything of the sort. And to mention Nelson with regards to my recent posts tells me you might not have read them. Your below league average pitching comment for the year, not sure how relevant that is with the way this staff is pitching now, but since I do respect your opinion, I’d love to hear your take on the pitching staff we have now.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:00 AM Post
Posts: 2891
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brew crew 92 said:
adambr2 said:
I have never seen someone who is so reactionary based on one single performance. No reliever moves from good to bad or bad to good or anything to anything based on one single outing.

And combining AAA outings and rehab outings with MLB outings to establish performance rating and expectations is a sure way to end up disappointed. This is a completely different level of competition.


I should have put Peralta in the good as soon as it was apparent he had his control back, which was down in AAA. What you call reactionary, I call obvious. Suter the same thing, but for different reasons. Since he’s thrown his first pitch in rehab almost 6 weeks ago he’s been fantastic. Think I waited long enough.

I believe it’s time for people to stop maligning this pitching staff. The pitching should now have shown itself to be the reason this team is still relevant, that, and Yelich. Kind of reminds me of last September. If we don’t make the playoffs, imo, it’ll be because we just don’t have the horses on offense, because of injury. Not because we can’t pitch.


And what's the reaction to being called out on the crazy?

DOUBLE DOWN!!!


Crazy?
Ok, explain your word choice with regards to the recent posts made by me in this specific pitching thread.

Love to hear your specific take on the pitching staff we’re throwing out there now to try to get to the playoffs, especially the bullpen.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:03 AM Post
Posts: 2891
Brew4U said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


[laughing] [laughing]


Love to hear your specific critique on the crew’s bullpen too.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:06 AM Post
Posts: 2891
FVBrewerFan said:
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


I’ve respected your opinion with regards to the pitching this year more than most. I’d love to hear your take on the crew’s present bullpen.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:28 AM Post
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Solid pen arms based on experience, talent, and more than 2 appearances of past success, but have the possibility of blowing up because they are not studs this year = Albers, Claudio, Guerra, Hader, Pomeranz, Suter.

Young/inexperienced pen arms who are volatile and might be fine day-to-day = Black, Faria, Jackson, Peralta, Taylor Williams, Devin Williams

Shots in the dark: Burnes, Nelson

There are a bunch of decent arms in this pen who have the capability of getting hot here in the stretch run, but could also look horrible. There are no shut-down guys outside of Hader when he's on. Black has the kind of stuff to possibly get there. So does Peralta. Obviously not there yet.

Your takes are crazy because grading the pen game-to-game based on extremely small samples is kinda nuts. There are no "good" or "bad" relievers on this team. Jut a bunch of guys with good stuff that will look great at times and bad at times. Like most any pen, but probably a little worse this year.


Last edited by Joey Meyer Bombs on September 08, 2019, 8:53 AM, edited 2 times in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:30 AM Post
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Posts: 7124
Brew crew 92 said:

My eyes don’t tell me we have a double decker bus full of bullpen aces. I’ve never said anything of the sort. And to mention Nelson with regards to my recent posts tells me you might not have read them. Your below league average pitching comment for the year, not sure how relevant that is with the way this staff is pitching now, but since I do respect your opinion, I’d love to hear your take on the pitching staff we have now.


My take is that we have the guys we have. Most of them are pretty mediocre to meh to decent, much like they have been for much of their careers or this year. As other posters have pointed out, you're very reactionary and quick to jump on the latest very small sample.

Back in the mid 2000's the Brewers had a relief pitcher, Luis Vizcaino.... you might remember him. When his slider was WORKING, he was pretty tough to hit. When that thing had a late, sharp break on it, he was really tough to hit. The problem was, that you never knew from night to night if that slider was going to have that late sharp break or if it was going to just glide up there like a frisbee that batters could just mash all over the place. Kind of like Freddy Peralta. From night to night, you just don't know if his control will be there..... if his curveball is going to break, etc, etc. He's had 2 nice outings, and you're calling the guy "dominant". He's had a body of work this year that is not great. These guys are human. They're going to bounce around a lot. Freddy is young, and young guys are going to be really inconsistent. Freddy is what he is, a young, VERY inconsistent guy. Instead of trying to shoe-horn him into this "DOMINANT" box, just let's look at what he is, a young guy with great stuff who has the potential to maybe be something bigger. He might not. Same with Ray Black, or Pomeranz, or MOST of the guys in this pen.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 8:54 AM Post
Posts: 2891
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Solid pen arms based on experience, talent, and more than 2 appearances of past success, but have the possibility of blowing up because they are not studs this year = Albers, Claudio, Guerra, Hader, Pomeranz, Suter.

Young/inexperienced pen arms who are volatile and might be fine day-to-day = Black, Faria, Jackson, Peralta, Taylor Williams, Devin Williams

Shots in the dark: Burnes, Nelson

There are a bunch of decent arms in this pen who have the capability of getting hot here in the stretch run, but could also look horrible. There are no shut-sown guys outside of Hader when he's on. Black has the kind of stuff to possibly get there. So does Peralta. Obviously not there yet.

Your takes are crazy because grading the pen game-to-game based on extremely small samples is kinda nuts. There are no "good" or "bad" relievers on this team. Jut a bunch of guys with good stuff that will look great at times and bad at times. Like most any pen, but probably a little worse this year.



Ok, what I’m reading(between the lines)is you like but don’t love the pen right now. In your 1st grouping, the solids, Only difference is you have Albers and I have Peralta.


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Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 9:04 AM Post
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Posts: 8544
Brew crew 92 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Solid pen arms based on experience, talent, and more than 2 appearances of past success, but have the possibility of blowing up because they are not studs this year = Albers, Claudio, Guerra, Hader, Pomeranz, Suter.

Young/inexperienced pen arms who are volatile and might be fine day-to-day = Black, Faria, Jackson, Peralta, Taylor Williams, Devin Williams

Shots in the dark: Burnes, Nelson

There are a bunch of decent arms in this pen who have the capability of getting hot here in the stretch run, but could also look horrible. There are no shut-sown guys outside of Hader when he's on. Black has the kind of stuff to possibly get there. So does Peralta. Obviously not there yet.

Your takes are crazy because grading the pen game-to-game based on extremely small samples is kinda nuts. There are no "good" or "bad" relievers on this team. Jut a bunch of guys with good stuff that will look great at times and bad at times. Like most any pen, but probably a little worse this year.



Ok, what I’m reading(between the lines)is you like but don’t love the pen right now. In your 1st grouping, the solids, Only difference is you have Albers and I have Peralta.


No ... the difference is you have them rated by "good" and "bad". That's my biggest peeve. That just isn't a great way to rate a bullpen. And yes, Albers has been much, much more consistent than Peralta this year. It's really no contest. A couple meh outings in the last week isn't going to change that viewpoint.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 10:02 AM Post
Posts: 8454
Brew crew 92 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


I’ve respected your opinion with regards to the pitching this year more than most. I’d love to hear your take on the crew’s present bullpen.


My opinion is the same as Roco and Joey's. Its your whole premise of good and bad that's flawed. Especially when it changes almost daily. Right now they have no "bad" relievers.

Question is who gets the late innings down the stretch. Right now its Poneranz and Guerra most often, maybe Suter and Peralta next week. Everyone neefs ro keep in mind CC is not an idiot if he chooses one guy over another on a given night. All these guys are inconsistent, so there is no right or wrong, good or bad. They don't have the Jeffress, Hader, Knebel, good night combo so it's mix and match, feel, hot hand.

What IS really important is having a quick hook down the stretch. So many arms, if someone doesnt have it, get him out of there immediately. Like he did last night btw.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 08, 2019, 10:21 AM Post
Posts: 2891
FVBrewerFan said:
Brew crew 92 said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Update after last night>>>

Pomeranz>>> Horrible, dfa
Peralta>>> Hall of Fame potential


I’ve respected your opinion with regards to the pitching this year more than most. I’d love to hear your take on the crew’s present bullpen.


My opinion is the same as Roco and Joey's. Its your whole premise of good and bad that's flawed. Especially when it changes almost daily. Right now they have no "bad" relievers.

Question is who gets the late innings down the stretch. Right now its Poneranz and Guerra most often, maybe Suter and Peralta next week. Everyone neefs ro keep in mind CC is not an idiot if he chooses one guy over another on a given night. All these guys are inconsistent, so there is no right or wrong, good or bad. They don't have the Jeffress, Hader, Knebel, good night combo so it's mix and match, feel, hot hand.

What IS really important is having a quick hook down the stretch. So many arms, if someone doesnt have it, get him out of there immediately. Like he did last night btw.


Ok, I do agree with most of what you guys have said. I’ll take your critique’s under serious advisement. I guess I’m a little higher on our pen right now than everybody on this site, can’t help it, I just am.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 09, 2019, 6:47 AM Post
Posts: 2891
Love CC’s moves from Sat when he replaced Pomeranz with Hader, right on thru the last out of Sunday’s game. The getting Hader into the Saturday game was slightly surprising, only because CC never makes that sort of move. Loved it, hope to see that in the future. Then the other brilliant, under the radar move, bringing in Jackson to face 1 batter, RH’d. and getting the K. This is exactly how Jackson should be used, in close, important games that we can not lose. Imo, CC learned his lesson with Jackson on Friday, and that is big. It’s the Counsell understanding of his September bullpen right now has gotten me even more excited for what this staff will do this month.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 09, 2019, 6:59 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
Any idea on when Woody will be back?


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Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:11 AM Post
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I think we won't be seeing Nelson, but lets hope the Bullpen can perform at a high pace during the last 20 games.


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