LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  [ 54 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

2019 Brewers' pitching staff

Author Message
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#21

Posted: January 09, 2019, 3:44 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1827
FVBrewerFan said:
Initial Out Getter- Yea, it sounds weird. But I get why they're using that language. They want to reinforce with their pitchers that they're all equally valuable. These guys have gone through their whole lives and careers with this ingrained in their heads: Starter >>> Closer >> Set-up Man > middle/long relief. So while I don't really love the term, I get it.

The "Getter" part is the hardest part for me...

Out Converter?
Out Actualizer?
Out Enforcer?
Out Generator?
Out Accumulator?
Out Aggregator?
Out Collector?
Out Capturer?

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#22

Posted: January 09, 2019, 3:59 PM Post
Posts: 7770
xisxisxis said:
FVBrewerFan said:
Initial Out Getter- Yea, it sounds weird. But I get why they're using that language. They want to reinforce with their pitchers that they're all equally valuable. These guys have gone through their whole lives and careers with this ingrained in their heads: Starter >>> Closer >> Set-up Man > middle/long relief. So while I don't really love the term, I get it.

The "Getter" part is the hardest part for me...

Out Converter?
Out Actualizer?
Out Enforcer?
Out Generator?
Out Accumulator?
Out Aggregator?
Out Collector?
Out Capturer?


Initial Batter Terminator?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#23

Posted: January 09, 2019, 3:59 PM Post
Posts: 3629
Location: Madison, WI
Out getter attempter?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#24

Posted: January 09, 2019, 4:04 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 4908
The one guy I'm hoping comes back healthy is Albers. It's easy to forget, he was really, really good last season before he got hurt.

Through June 8th, he was sitting at a 1.93 ERA, and 6 BB and 23 hits through 28IP, for a 1.04 WHIP

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#25

Posted: January 09, 2019, 4:26 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1632
Baldkin said:
The one guy I'm hoping comes back healthy is Albers. It's easy to forget, he was really, really good last season before he got hurt.

Through June 8th, he was sitting at a 1.93 ERA, and 6 BB and 23 hits through 28IP, for a 1.04 WHIP



I totally agree, hopefully he gets back to the 2017 and early 2018 version.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#26

Posted: January 09, 2019, 4:35 PM Post
Posts: 32
unless Albers shows something in the spring, he is gone and they eat $2.5M. This is the odd number year where he seems to thrive after a bad year though. Houser is the guy I don't think they will keep or use. He had a horrendous year in the minors and very little success in the majors. He really offers nothing. I think Stearns is still looking for help in the pen and I wouldn't be surprised if Houser is dropped from the 40 man roster to make room. Diplan hasn't done much in the minors either and would be a candidate for coming off he 40-man.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#27

Posted: January 09, 2019, 4:38 PM Post
Posts: 32
xisxisxis said:
Taking a discussion from the Madison Bumgarner trade proposal:
FVBrewerFan said:
I get the sense some folks think this is a temporary thing until they get the proverbial TOR starter or two. It's not temporary. Stats tell us overwhelmingly almost all pitchers fall off a cliff the 3rd time through the lineup. Stearns is and will take full advantage of this (at least until MLB changes the rules on shuttling players.)

As this approach develops you would expect to have an initial out getter who can go 5-6 innings, a second out getter who can go 2-3 innings and a final out getter of 1-2 innings. Three pitchers per game with the following estimates:

Out Getter #  Ave IP  Season IP (per pitcher)
Initial    5    5.0      162
Second     4    2.67     108
Final      3    1.33      72


Ideally you need a 12 man staff with 5 Initial Out getters that can go 5 IP (presumably your best pitchers the 1st/2nd time through a lineup.) These Iniitial Out getters would average about 160IP a year. You would need 4 pitchers that can go every 4th day and pitch 2-3 innings (average 2.67, with 108 IP per year). You would need 3 final out getters that can get you 1-2 innings every 3rd day or about 72 IP per year. None of those averages would put any stress on the pitchers arms or frequency of usage. With this approach you'd need 1/2 arms at AAA that can come up in a pinch if ineffectiveness/injury impacts availability.

The Brewers pitchers align as follows (without looking at stats):

Initial Out Getters
Chacin
Burnes
Anderson
Davies *
Peralta

Second Out Getters
Woodruff *(could be swapped with Davies)
Nelson
Guerra
Claudio

Final Out Getters
Hader
Knebel
Jeffress

A FA SP/Initial out getter pushes either Anderson/Davies to Second Out Getter or for Davies to AAA (or Peralta). Nelson starts out in the 2nd OG depending on how he handles Spring Training, but could also break camp in AAA for rehab. The Brewers have 8 pitchers who could swap between the 9 Initial and second out getter positions). Due to uncertainty with Davies and Nelson I think we still need to add another FA SP to the mix. These are all best case scenarios that 3 pitchers per day would suffice, in many instances one of the out getters won't go the needed distance and another pitcher would need to be brought in. Having a 13 man staff could provide the necessary flexibility, but shuttling players between AAA and MIL could also allow for a 12 man staff.

Edit: Depending on how Williams/Barnes develop they could easily replace Hader/Jeffress as Final OG and move Hader to 2nd OG (if/when Jeffress is less effective).


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#28

Posted: January 09, 2019, 7:57 PM Post
Posts: 3805
Instead of all this "out getter" garbage, why can't they just say "1st pitcher, 2nd pitcher, 3rd pitcher" - and so on. It's fun to come up with new phrases and all, but Jeez. What do successful pitchers do? They get outs regardless of whether they were considered starters, setup guys, closers, etc. historically....so why does another term need to be invented, especially one that sounds like something a hipster with a man bun who demands to be contrarian would come up with?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#29

Posted: January 09, 2019, 10:05 PM Post
Posts: 28
They just sent Diplan to the rookie academy (along with Freddy, Zach Brown, and Tyrone Taylor)...so I don't see him just getting dropped from the 40-man. Traded maybe...

Houser is going to get dealt or dropped though...no options...no shuttle...no roster spot.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#30

Posted: January 09, 2019, 10:45 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5393
BlazingGunz said:
They just sent Diplan to the rookie academy (along with Freddy, Zach Brown, and Tyrone Taylor)...so I don't see him just getting dropped from the 40-man. Traded maybe...

Houser is going to get dealt or dropped though...no options...no shuttle...no roster spot.


I wouldn't count Houser out just yet. That guy showed some great, albeit inconsistent stuff in his very limited opportunities at the MLB level last year. Hate to give up on a guy with upper 90s heat, especially after sticking with him through his rehab. Part of me wants to continue to see the Carlos Gomez deal as the gift that keeps on giving as well.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#31

Posted: January 10, 2019, 9:07 AM Post
Posts: 738
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
BlazingGunz said:
They just sent Diplan to the rookie academy (along with Freddy, Zach Brown, and Tyrone Taylor)...so I don't see him just getting dropped from the 40-man. Traded maybe...

Houser is going to get dealt or dropped though...no options...no shuttle...no roster spot.


I wouldn't count Houser out just yet. That guy showed some great, albeit inconsistent stuff in his very limited opportunities at the MLB level last year. Hate to give up on a guy with upper 90s heat, especially after sticking with him through his rehab. Part of me wants to continue to see the Carlos Gomez deal as the gift that keeps on giving as well.


The Brewers have 17 pitchers on the 40 man roster that deserve a spot on a MLB team. This is without a signing/trade like Miley, Gio, MadB etc. WE have about two to three pitchers that will need to be moved, Houser could be one because of the lack of options. My guess would be one of Anderson or Davies are trade for MiLbers or a 2Ber. If I was the team looking for reliable SP with MLB experience both Anderson and Davies are attractive and probably don't cost much. Either with Houser would get back quality MiLB depth.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#32

Posted: January 10, 2019, 10:04 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 6763
Rotation: Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Burnes, Miley. Peralta and Nelson next up.

Don't count on Nelson until he's actually back. Even if ready, I wouldn't be surprised if he spends a couple of weeks in the minors doing some game work before coming back to Milwaukee. If he does come back, Anderson or Davies becomes trade bait.

Peralta is ready to step in if there is an injury or someone is just really bad. He can throw some games at AAA if everyone is healthy and effective. Eventually, we'll need him.

Regarding Miley - the Brewers have looked into quite a few pitchers this off season, and a left starter has been a prominent target. I'm guessing they bring in someone on a one or two year deal. I think Miley will be cheaper than Gio Gonzalez, so Miley it is.

Bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Jeffress, Claudio, Guerra, Woodruff, Houser, Barnes, T. Williams, Wahl

That's 10 guys, so you have a lot depth.

Williams, Wahl and Barnes will need to fight for a spot. They need to show they can be consistent and effective. If everyone is healthy and effective you can do the shuttle back to AAA with a couple of the guys.

Houser can be dealt if the club doesn't think he's worth keeping. But I'm thinking they like his arm a lot, and will give him a long leash. But he'll need to show what he can do at in Spring Training.

I am letting Woodruff spend a season in the bullpen in Milwaukee - looking more toward him being in the rotation in 2020.

I think the staff can change very quickly come spring training. If the club sees someone really steps up in some way, they could easily change their plans. Maybe Nelson is healthy. Maybe Peralta shows improved command. That sort of thing. Then they could work their way into the lineup.

The thing I love is the depth. We have multiple answers if we injuries. That's essential in a 162 game season.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#33

Posted: January 10, 2019, 11:24 AM Post
Posts: 3829
Location: New Berlin, WI
https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/sta ... 2856925184

Update on Jimmy Nelson's health, from the horse's mouth...


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#34

Posted: January 10, 2019, 11:34 AM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 7693
Great news! I'm sure we're all thrilled that he'll be able to get in a full spring prior to potentially logging real innings in April.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#35

Posted: January 11, 2019, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 1402
Lot of pitching debates in the Grandal thread as an indirect result of the debate about whether they still have a roster spot for Thames after signing Grandal. Trying to move that here because it's such a compelling part of the Brewers' identity.

I firmly believe the Brewers are going to continue to spit on tradition and even redouble their efforts to do so. For all the things they did a little different last year, I believe they would have liked to do so more. Why do I believe that? Because they said so:

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2018/10/25 ... rs-in-2019

A lot of young guys with options got their feet wet in 2018 and will be ready for a much larger role in 2019. This will allow them to shuttle guys back and forth more effectively. This is especially true for long relievers, which would lead to pulling starters even earlier to leverage "times through the order" effects and get an extra plate appearance from a legit hitter in many more games. Pulling starters early enough could even allow them to have a 4-man "starting" staff, because guys can probably pitch on 4 days rest on a routine basis if they're throwing 50-60 pitches per start.

They also moved away from guys who can't go a full inning or more. For example, last year they tried a bunch of different LOOGY's, but this year they just have Claudio and Hader. I think they would have liked to do that all along, but just had to wait for the right opportunity to get a guy like Claudio instead of Drake/Logan/Cedeno/Jennings. They also haven't moved any starters to make room for guys like Burnes, Peralta, or Woodruff in the rotation. I believe that's because they'd like to keep more "starters" in long relief.

This could allow them to carry 11-12 pitchers for much of the year and maximize their PH opportunities. The number of pitching "options with options" is astounding. I don't doubt that this is by design. You can disagree, bet against it, whatever, but mock this suggestion at your own peril because the Brewers have a pretty strong track record of making the set-in-their-ways, you-can't-do-that crowd look foolish. I'm not saying I'd bet on all this to happen, but I think they're moving in that direction and we're going to see them try some of it. We've seen them have tremendous success with this long relief and bulllpen games and leverage outings the past two Septembers as well as in last year's playoffs, and they understand the value of an expanded roster. All that remains is to find a way to get some of the same benefits of an expanded roster before September, and they have the means to do that if they coordinate outings and call-ups carefully enough. They also have the positional versatility to make double-switches and the presence of a lot of PH options who don't have an everday role but who can hit well enough to deserve one. They're not gonna let them all rot on the bench. If you don't think they can handle the logistics of all this, just bet against them (as Brett Favre would say).


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#36

Posted: January 11, 2019, 12:07 PM Post
Posts: 3829
Location: New Berlin, WI
I understand the general idea of what you're proposing, I simply doubt it happens. I strongly doubt it in fact. This is a viable strategy in September with unlimited rosters and in the playoffs when you play 5 games in 7 days after 3 days off. I'd literally bet my house that the Brewers have 13 pitchers on the active roster more often than 11. And I also firmly believe we'll have a fairly standard rotation and bullpen. The bullpen will definitely have more multi-inning relief guys than previously, but multi-inning relievers aren't exactly a brand new cutting edge strategy. Those multi-inning relievers will be necessary considering we'll probably have at least one of Burnes/Peralta/Woodruff in the rotation along with many sub-par rotation pieces that generally average something like 5.5 innings per start.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#37

Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:36 PM Post
Posts: 4221
Wouldn't Nelson have Options to the Minors to use? While he may not be full go end of Rehab, you'd likely just option him or have him spot start to option with the likes of Davies/Peralta et al.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#38

Posted: January 11, 2019, 4:42 PM Post
Posts: 15684
coolhandluke121 said:
Lot of pitching debates in the Grandal thread as an indirect result of the debate about whether they still have a roster spot for Thames after signing Grandal. Trying to move that here because it's such a compelling part of the Brewers' identity.

I firmly believe the Brewers are going to continue to spit on tradition and even redouble their efforts to do so. For all the things they did a little different last year, I believe they would have liked to do so more. Why do I believe that? Because they said so:

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2018/10/25 ... rs-in-2019

A lot of young guys with options got their feet wet in 2018 and will be ready for a much larger role in 2019. This will allow them to shuttle guys back and forth more effectively. This is especially true for long relievers, which would lead to pulling starters even earlier to leverage "times through the order" effects and get an extra plate appearance from a legit hitter in many more games. Pulling starters early enough could even allow them to have a 4-man "starting" staff, because guys can probably pitch on 4 days rest on a routine basis if they're throwing 50-60 pitches per start.

They also moved away from guys who can't go a full inning or more. For example, last year they tried a bunch of different LOOGY's, but this year they just have Claudio and Hader. I think they would have liked to do that all along, but just had to wait for the right opportunity to get a guy like Claudio instead of Drake/Logan/Cedeno/Jennings. They also haven't moved any starters to make room for guys like Burnes, Peralta, or Woodruff in the rotation. I believe that's because they'd like to keep more "starters" in long relief.

This could allow them to carry 11-12 pitchers for much of the year and maximize their PH opportunities. The number of pitching "options with options" is astounding. I don't doubt that this is by design. You can disagree, bet against it, whatever, but mock this suggestion at your own peril because the Brewers have a pretty strong track record of making the set-in-their-ways, you-can't-do-that crowd look foolish. I'm not saying I'd bet on all this to happen, but I think they're moving in that direction and we're going to see them try some of it. We've seen them have tremendous success with this long relief and bulllpen games and leverage outings the past two Septembers as well as in last year's playoffs, and they understand the value of an expanded roster. All that remains is to find a way to get some of the same benefits of an expanded roster before September, and they have the means to do that if they coordinate outings and call-ups carefully enough. They also have the positional versatility to make double-switches and the presence of a lot of PH options who don't have an everday role but who can hit well enough to deserve one. They're not gonna let them all rot on the bench. If you don't think they can handle the logistics of all this, just bet against them (as Brett Favre would say).


I don't think Grandal affects Thames one way or another. It's bad news for Kratz, but I don't see how it affects anyone else. They were going to carry 2 catchers before they signed Grandal, and they're going to carry 2 catchers now that they've signed Grandal.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#39

Posted: January 11, 2019, 6:26 PM Post
Posts: 1402
adambr2 said:

I don't think Grandal affects Thames one way or another. It's bad news for Kratz, but I don't see how it affects anyone else. They were going to carry 2 catchers before they signed Grandal, and they're going to carry 2 catchers now that they've signed Grandal.


Grandal could be that LHB PH when he doesn't start and could move over to 1B when he does to facilitate double-switches. He could theoretically eat into some of Thames's plate appearances, Aguilar has already eaten into many of them, and Gamel + Braun could take the rest.

I agree that it won't and shouldn't happen, but that's where the debate is coming from. Personally I think if they are crunched for roster spots, they're just going to use a ton of shuttle service in the staff, so I see Thames still being an important bench bat.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2019 Brewers' pitching staff
#40

Posted: January 16, 2019, 9:49 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 4707
AUDIO: David Stearns on MLB Network Radio

The audio clip is just 1:20 total. The first half is filled with Stearns standard lines about being confident in the pitchers they have. The second half is specific to Jimmy Nelson. Below is the transcript of Stearns’ comments regarding Nelson:

In terms of Jimmy Nelson, we expect him to come to Spring Training as a normal pitcher. Jimmy completed his rehab process last year. He’s going through a normal throwing program this off-season. That doesn’t mean necessarily that he’s going to follow the exact same pace that everyone else does as we go through spring, but we are I’d say optimistic that Jimmy will be able to impact us this year. We do know he’s coming back from a very serious shoulder injury, something that is not just your routine repair. So we are going to have to take a wait and see approach on him, but we do expect him to contribute for us.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  [ 54 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brewguy03, djoctagone, MrAllen, RZR, ThisIsMyCrew and 13 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test