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2019 Misc MLB News

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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 5:20 PM Post
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I can't speak for Marisnick's intent during the play. But he was given a clear path to hit the back side of the plate and he disregarded it and initiated contact. So if he meant to do it or not, he did it, and should face a substantial suspension.

Lucroy has been concussed before and often times, subsequent concussions require less force. Francisco Cervelli has declared he's theough as a catcher because of his 6 concussions.

So, if baseball is going to be serious about player safety, Marisnick should pay a price.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 5:30 PM Post
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^ LIKE ^


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:00 PM Post
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I think mlb has to get tougher on these kinds of hits and issue suspensions, even if its unintentional. Sooner or later we're just going to have force outs at home or an orange sliding base and I dont think too many people want to see that.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:11 PM Post
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I don't think he had a clear path to the outside.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1148086027220914177

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:16 PM Post
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homer said:
I don't think he had a clear path to the outside.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1148086027220914177


Yeah he did.

Image

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:19 PM Post
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That gif starts after he had already committed to the inside.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:20 PM Post
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We can go round and round on these Zapruder gifs all day. No one's going to convince anyone. He should be suspended. I don't think it was intentional.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 6:26 PM Post
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Suspend him because it turned out the way it did but I don’t think he was headed in there with the intent to ram Luc. Sometimes when things just time themselves up, these thing happen.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 7:13 PM Post
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It makes no logical sense why he would take the inside path.

What was he possibly thinking?


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 8:41 PM Post
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turborickey said:
It makes no logical sense why he would take the inside path.

What was he possibly thinking?


Avoid the tag on the back side. Taking the "clear path" to the back side was an easy out. Go the opposite way Lucroy would instinctually go and you have a chance at being safe.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 9:36 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
turborickey said:
It makes no logical sense why he would take the inside path.

What was he possibly thinking?


Avoid the tag on the back side. Taking the "clear path" to the back side was an easy out. Go the opposite way Lucroy would instinctually go and you have a chance at being safe.

No it wasn’t an easy out. Marisnick is a tall dude who’s athletic. With his length and speed he can dive south of the plate and reach his hand to clip the back tip. Lucroy still has to catch the ball then slide his body or dive to reach the southern part of the plate. Marisnick hit Lucroy before he even touched the ball and that’s AFTER he changed directions from inside to outside to back inside slowing himself down in the process. If he runs straight to the back corner he’s easily safe. That’s a fact based on all the evidence.

Also, regarding that tweet someone posted above, they attempt to validate Marianick’s explanation by saying Lucroy flinched his left leg inward toward the line as if the throw was taking him to the backside of the plate therefore Marisnick chose to head inside. Except that doesn’t make any sense. Lucroy isn’t going to move several feet behind the plate to make a play thus opening up the entire front part of the plate for an easy touch by Marisnick. Not to mention Lucroys other leg was basically parallel with the ground therefore he was in a position to post up not shift drastically to the other side of the plate to make a play. Anyone saying there was no path to the backside or attempts to defend Marisnick needs thicker glasses. And none of this has anything to do with whether there was intent on hurting Lucroy or not. It’s like arguing whether someone’s DNA is actually their DNA on this thread - it’s black and white there’s no middle ground.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 9:51 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
turborickey said:
It makes no logical sense why he would take the inside path.

What was he possibly thinking?


Avoid the tag on the back side. Taking the "clear path" to the back side was an easy out. Go the opposite way Lucroy would instinctually go and you have a chance at being safe.


and an even better chance of a collision.

still seems stupid to me, just asking for trouble and injury one way or another.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 08, 2019, 11:18 PM Post
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Marisnick should have just done one of those somersaults over Lucroy that you see every now and then.

I’m half serious

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P.I.T.C.H. LEAGUE CHAMPION 1989, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2006, 2007, 2011 (finally won another one)


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 5:50 AM Post
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Verlander says it's a joke that MLB buys the company that makes baseball, and now home runs are up by a staggering percentage.

Manfred admits that they have scientifically concluded that the ball has something to do with the uptick in home run percentage, but says that because the balls are handmade that it's an inexact process and that year-to-year there will be variances in the ball making process....

That's all fine and well, but it seems like we're seeing a 465 foot homerun nightly on the highlight reels, and I don't think that's just from A variation in the ball making process, and it's not because guys have suddenly discovered launch angle Revolution.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 7:03 AM Post
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The balls are most definitely different; the seams are lower, the balls are rounder, the leather smoother. The AAA almost 50% spike in HRs from one year to the next, after changing to the MLB baseball, is another very convincing data point. Aside from the obvious effects on batted balls, it's noticable for the pitchers as well, many who have said they feel different, give more blisters, have to alter grips etc. And this can't be just year-to-year variance, it has to be the result of a change in the manufacturing process or in materials. Was it done intentionally to create more offense? Or was the change done for other reasons (cost, intending to improve quality, changing suppliers)? I don't know, but I can't believe it just happened by chance.

This also creates something of a perfect storm along with some other developments; Pitchers have more tools than ever to develop ways to beat hitters. They're throwing harder, throwing more and better breaking balls, and can analyse and tweak their pitches in a way never before possible. So pitchers are tougher than ever to hit, and record more strikeouts. Another aspect of this is that the pitchers pitch in a way that attempts to counter the uppercut swings that were a response to the pounding of the bottom part of the zone. What's the answer? With a deader ball and/or bigger ballparks maybe the answer is to attempt to strike out less, make more contact. But if it's more and more difficult to get hits, it's even more difficult to string multiple hits together. And so needing to string together fewer hits in order to score runs should be the way to go, hence more extra base hits. And in particular more homers. So you swing harder, sacrificing contact rate for contact quality. Meaning strikeouts are up even more than they already were. Changing the baseball so that warning track power translates into double-digit home runs (See Sogard, E and La Stella, T) just creates even more incentive to completely sell out. (It will also be interesting to see how, with it being harder to string hits together, this affects base stealing. On one hand that's a way to score from just getting two singles instead of three. But at the same time you risk taking away the multi-run HR)

I have barely even mentioned the launch angle revolution, partly because I think it tends to get mixed up with swing changes, when it's really more about timing changes, or way to make better contact, and more contact out in front of the plate. Which will see more pulled fly balls even if the swing and swing plane is the same. The juiced baseball, and any eventual de-juicing thereof, could also majorly mess with both players and front offices. Should players try to drastically alter their approach to exploit this? Or stick with what has been working for when/if it returns to normal? And for front offices, do they build their team according to this trend or not? Grandal and Moose are very good players in their own right, but they are relatively speaking better players with the 2019 baseball than with a more "normal" one. I don't think it's the main factor in any decisions on trading/extending them, but it does factor in.

What I would like to see is Manfred taking this issue more seriously. Or if he and MLB already are doing that, then communicate that better. And give some kind of indication on what they plan to do about it. HRs are fun, but there's a point when it becomes too much. It's not even so much the monster HRs as it is the other end of the scale, the popups that end up as homers.

TL;DR:
Baseballs are different. The effects of that change are amplified by other trends in the game, and the juiced balls are driving those trends even further.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 7:16 AM Post
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Location: Oshkosh
JimH5 said:
I can't speak for Marisnick's intent during the play. But he was given a clear path to hit the back side of the plate and he disregarded it and initiated contact. So if he meant to do it or not, he did it, and should face a substantial suspension.

Lucroy has been concussed before and often times, subsequent concussions require less force. Francisco Cervelli has declared he's theough as a catcher because of his 6 concussions.

So, if baseball is going to be serious about player safety, Marisnick should pay a price.


100% disagree. This is not the NFL, we do not suspend or forcibly take money from players for playing the sport poorly, even if it results in injury. There was obviously no intent to injure and given the rules of the game, he was called out, which looked like the correct call to me.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 9:27 AM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
Verlander says it's a joke that MLB buys the company that makes baseball, and now home runs are up by a staggering percentage.

Manfred admits that they have scientifically concluded that the ball has something to do with the uptick in home run percentage, but says that because the balls are handmade that it's an inexact process and that year-to-year there will be variances in the ball making process....

That's all fine and well, but it seems like we're seeing a 465 foot homerun nightly on the highlight reels, and I don't think that's just from A variation in the ball making process, and it's not because guys have suddenly discovered launch angle Revolution.

I didn't know MLB owns the company that manufcaturers the balls. Manfred isn't truthful. The individuals who are handmaking these baseballs year to year aren't choosing themselves how they are going to make the ball. They're instructed on how to make the ball. And those instructions come from all the way at the top.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 9:34 AM Post
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I don't think the runner intended to create a collision and hurt anyone. I mean, why would we think he's some evil jerk trying to hurt people. I think he saw something out of the corner of his eye making him think Lucroy was going to go backwards to chase the ball or something, or maybe he thought Luc would dive backside for the tag and was trying to outsmart him, and then made a horrible split second decision to go inside instead. He made a huge mistake and should face a suspension for it. But I don't think in any point of that play he was trying to hit/hurt anyone. He wasn't running down the line thinking "I'm taking this guy out if I have to" , you know, especially since he knows his run won't even count if he does. He made a terrible split second decision and it ended horribly. Think it's as simple as that, accidents happen.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 9:44 AM Post
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homer said:
That gif starts after he had already committed to the inside.


How is the inside of the plate at any point more of a clear path than the outside of the plate? Lucroy moves from between blocking the inside half of the plate and 2 feet off the plate to the inside. The inside part of the plate was never the best path for him unless he was going to try and slide between his legs or something. You all are grasping at straws at best...


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: July 09, 2019, 10:04 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
homer said:
That gif starts after he had already committed to the inside.


How is the inside of the plate at any point more of a clear path than the outside of the plate? Lucroy moves from between blocking the inside half of the plate and 2 feet off the plate to the inside. The inside part of the plate was never the best path for him unless he was going to try and slide between his legs or something. You all are grasping at straws at best...


Yet you can read minds.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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