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2019 Misc MLB News

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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 5:54 AM Post
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RollieTime said:
Not exactly sure if you’re actually hinting toward believing that Stearns has implemented this coming over to the Brewers or not...

In 2016, the Brewers struck out the most in MLB. Astros were the 4th most in MLB.

In 2017, the Brewers struck out the most in MLB. Astros struck out THE LEAST in MLB.


I'm hinting towards believing that I wouldn't entirely discount the Brewers (or any other organization) from trying to do whatever they can to gain a competitive edge & that Fiers hasn't been here since the current regime took over so he wouldn't have any first hand insight into what they may or may not be doing.

Looking at the 2016/2017 Astros it looks like their massive improvement in K% was primarily driven by a change in personnel & playing time...

Among players with at least 100 PAs, you have Colby Rasmus (417 PAs, 29.0 K%), Jason Castro (376 PAs, 32.7 K%), Luis Valbuena (342 PAs, 23.7 K%), Carlos Gomez (323 PAs, 31.0 K%), Tyler White (276 PAs, 23.6 K%), Tony Kemp (136 PAs, 19.9 K%) & Teoscar Hernandez (112 PAs, 25.0 K%) in 2016 being replaced by...

Carlos Beltran (509 PAs, 20.0 K%), Brian McCann (399 PAs, 19.2 K%) & Nori Aoki (224 PAs, 12.9 K%) along with Alex Bregman (15.5 K%) & Yuli Gurriel (11.1 K%) combining for 1,190 PAs in 2017 vs only 350 PAs in 2016.

League average K% at home in 2017 was 21.3 vs 22.0 on the road for a 0.7% difference. Astros K% at home in 2017 was 16.7 vs 17.9 on the road for a 1.2% difference, so it's not like they had some crazy split compared to the league as a whole.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 6:20 AM Post
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I’m sorry, but there is 100% now way anything in stats is reflecting them stealing signs. If they went from bottom of the barrel to the best in a matter of one year you should be able to watch 162 games of bat clanking change up mashing hitting. One video shows what looks to be sign stealing...one game. I am sure it is nowhere near the only one, but I doubt they did it to some degree they were suddenly amazing with RISP...you still gotta but it good.

That’s just too big of a change to be because of sign stealing.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 7:51 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry, but there is 100% now way anything in stats is reflecting them stealing signs. If they went from bottom of the barrel to the best in a matter of one year you should be able to watch 162 games of bat clanking change up mashing hitting. One video shows what looks to be sign stealing...one game. I am sure it is nowhere near the only one, but I doubt they did it to some degree they were suddenly amazing with RISP...you still gotta but it good.

That’s just too big of a change to be because of sign stealing.


Yeah, I would attribute that bat hitting the trashcan video (since it is the only one at least so far) as more of the bench picked up a tell on the pitcher and was relaying that. That is on the pitcher.

I have no idea if correct, but others were claiming the Astros had better hitting stats on the road, which would also discredit at least the effect of the cheating.

But if getting signs to the batter is prevalent, another reason to pitch fast like Suter. Signs can't be relayed to the batter fast enough.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 8:16 AM Post
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Wonder if the Stros will get the Pete Rose treatment?

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 8:21 AM Post
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Roderick said:
MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry, but there is 100% now way anything in stats is reflecting them stealing signs. If they went from bottom of the barrel to the best in a matter of one year you should be able to watch 162 games of bat clanking change up mashing hitting. One video shows what looks to be sign stealing...one game. I am sure it is nowhere near the only one, but I doubt they did it to some degree they were suddenly amazing with RISP...you still gotta but it good.

That’s just too big of a change to be because of sign stealing.


Yeah, I would attribute that bat hitting the trashcan video (since it is the only one at least so far) as more of the bench picked up a tell on the pitcher and was relaying that. That is on the pitcher.

I have no idea if correct, but others were claiming the Astros had better hitting stats on the road, which would also discredit at least the effect of the cheating.

But if getting signs to the batter is prevalent, another reason to pitch fast like Suter. Signs can't be relayed to the batter fast enough.


They change the sign and it is picked up again almost immediately. That is a CF cam, it is not a genius in the dugout. While I agree that you cannot go from horrible to great just by stealing a sign, they deserve whatever is coming.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 11:41 AM Post
Posts: 883
Location: Washburn, WI
sveumrules said:
RollieTime said:
Not exactly sure if you’re actually hinting toward believing that Stearns has implemented this coming over to the Brewers or not...

In 2016, the Brewers struck out the most in MLB. Astros were the 4th most in MLB.

In 2017, the Brewers struck out the most in MLB. Astros struck out THE LEAST in MLB.


I'm hinting towards believing that I wouldn't entirely discount the Brewers (or any other organization) from trying to do whatever they can to gain a competitive edge & that Fiers hasn't been here since the current regime took over so he wouldn't have any first hand insight into what they may or may not be doing.

Looking at the 2016/2017 Astros it looks like their massive improvement in K% was primarily driven by a change in personnel & playing time...

Among players with at least 100 PAs, you have Colby Rasmus (417 PAs, 29.0 K%), Jason Castro (376 PAs, 32.7 K%), Luis Valbuena (342 PAs, 23.7 K%), Carlos Gomez (323 PAs, 31.0 K%), Tyler White (276 PAs, 23.6 K%), Tony Kemp (136 PAs, 19.9 K%) & Teoscar Hernandez (112 PAs, 25.0 K%) in 2016 being replaced by...

Carlos Beltran (509 PAs, 20.0 K%), Brian McCann (399 PAs, 19.2 K%) & Nori Aoki (224 PAs, 12.9 K%) along with Alex Bregman (15.5 K%) & Yuli Gurriel (11.1 K%) combining for 1,190 PAs in 2017 vs only 350 PAs in 2016.

League average K% at home in 2017 was 21.3 vs 22.0 on the road for a 0.7% difference. Astros K% at home in 2017 was 16.7 vs 17.9 on the road for a 1.2% difference, so it's not like they had some crazy split compared to the league as a whole.


Some of it can be personnel related for sure. It’s actually about a 6.7% decrease at home. While not significant, is still quite an improvement.

MrTPlush said:
I’m sorry, but there is 100% now way anything in stats is reflecting them stealing signs. If they went from bottom of the barrel to the best in a matter of one year you should be able to watch 162 games of bat clanking change up mashing hitting. One video shows what looks to be sign stealing...one game. I am sure it is nowhere near the only one, but I doubt they did it to some degree they were suddenly amazing with RISP...you still gotta but it good.

That’s just too big of a change to be because of sign stealing.


Is it though? So if you were facing a guy throwing 95 and you knew when it was going to be a fastball or a changeup/slider, that would not help you as a hitter in never having your timing wrong because you know what’s coming? How about a reliever that only has 2 pitches? You don’t think it would help a batter immensely if he knew a fastball or slider was coming and would never be off balance or out in front on a swing because he KNOWS what’s coming? Sorry, but an MLB hitter would be way more successful at the plate knowing which pitch is coming. I think a large part of it can be attributed to sign stealing and that it can’t be totally dismissed almost like it seems like you’re doing here.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:06 PM Post
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You are inferring incredible changes in success when there are RISP. If this was true then the home/road splits for such a stat would also be off the charts. Is that actually the case? I don't have the stats, but I really doubt that. If you believe they were cheating daily at home there should be big big differences that make them better at home offensively across the board. I doubt they just do it with RISP. If I am not mistaken in the example video no one is even on 2nd or 3rd (I know not 2nd, but can't recall 3rd).

While I think it could have a way more direct effect on results this is similar to PEDs. They aren't going to suddenly make you a god at the plate. I think it can make a difference, but not enough to think they are doing it every AB and/or to make them go from #20 in baseball to #1 with RISP.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:33 PM Post
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Location: Washburn, WI
MrTPlush said:
You are inferring incredible changes in success when there are RISP. If this was true then the home/road splits for such a stat would also be off the charts. Is that actually the case? I don't have the stats, but I really doubt that. If you believe they were cheating daily at home there should be big big differences that make them better at home offensively across the board. I doubt they just do it with RISP. If I am not mistaken in the example video no one is even on 2nd or 3rd (I know not 2nd, but can't recall 3rd).

While I think it could have a way more direct effect on results this is similar to PEDs. They aren't going to suddenly make you a god at the plate. I think it can make a difference, but not enough to think they are doing it every AB and/or to make them go from #20 in baseball to #1 with RISP.


The RISP was more so to point out how the Astros became so successful almost overnight compared to the Brewers being “linked” to “cheating” when they have been one of the worst in striking out, average, and hitting with runners in scoring position the last few years. It was more to show how I see no way the Brewers are actually stealing signs. There is always a possibility of a runner on second relaying signs to the batter and what not, something some teams do. I know the Astros were doing that before and that was verified in the past couple years too. I don’t see the Brewer doing that with how bad they are at hitting with runners in scoring position. I should of clarified my intent with the RISP before.

All in all, the Astros have been linked to doing multiple different things for stealing signs while the numbers suggest there’s no way the Brewers are doing that. If they are stealing signs and still performing this bad, especially with runners in scoring position and the pitcher throwing high leverage pitches, I wouldn’t want to know how bad they truly would be without stealing signs. Especially with the talent they’ve had in the lineup the last 2-3 seasons. I just don’t see any merit to them stealing signs whatsoever.


Last edited by RollieTime on November 13, 2019, 2:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 2:35 PM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
With how paranoid each and every team is that the other team is attempting to steal their signs when a runner is on 2nd, it tells me that they themselves are also doing it and have done it while on other teams. I take that as part of the game. Same reason they have to put through multiple signs to begin with and why the 3rd base coach needs dummy signs. Or why if a QB yelled the same word to audible to X play that after like 3 plays or enough data everyone would figure out. Or if a basketball team yells out their play coming down the court as "computer blue" that you eventually figure out what it is. Or the examples of a pitcher tipping. Part of the game.

But something like this goes well beyond IMO.

Also, remember the Yu Darvish pitch tipping thing in the WS vs them? Hmmm


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 5:28 PM Post
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Shi Davidi of Sportsnet reports that the Blue Jays have "at minimum, discussed Mike Moustakas internally."

Toronto already has Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at third base, but Moustakas showed this past season that he can play a competent second base and he has been used a little at first base, as well. The 31-year-old batted .254/.329/.516 with 35 home runs and 87 RBI for the Brewers in 2019.
Related: Toronto Blue Jays

Source: Sportsnet
Nov 13, 2019, 11:32 AM ET

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 13, 2019, 9:03 PM Post
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Brewers were stealing signs? Gosh I hope not because if true most of the team is much worse at hitting than previously thought.

As for the whole issue, whatever. It's illegal the way they are doing it and I get that but I just don't care. I can guarantee every team is either doing it or trying to figure out a way to do it without getting caught.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 14, 2019, 2:50 PM Post
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https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/02/20/ml ... -stealing/

Here's a link to more information on the measures in place to prevent sign stealing for the 2019 season. The league official referred to has access to everything clubhouse/dugout and would report major violations in real time. Something as simple as being on a personal cell phone was a violation and would get reported, which went for everyone in the dugout/clubhouse area including players, managers, and video personnel. I highly highly doubt any sign stealing happened in 2019 using electronic means...nothing like the 2017 allegations. I find it interesting this is coming out now regarding 2017...considering at this point cheating via electronics is very difficult if not impossible.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 14, 2019, 3:00 PM Post
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For what it is worth the Red Sox did this exact thing in 2017 themselves. They were simply fined for the occurrence in the Aug/Sept range of that year. Manfred said there would be more serious penalties in the future. Considering this Astros incident(s) happened in 2017 also I would venture to guess a slap on the wrist is incoming.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 15, 2019, 11:20 AM Post
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Another video came out today. Showing Beltran getting info on fastball, change up, and slider.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 15, 2019, 4:16 PM Post
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According to Beltran he denied any knowledge of the electronic stealing scheme, but had this to say,
"The game of baseball for years, guys have given location and if the catchers get lazy and the pitcher doesn't cover the signs from second base [then] of course players are going to take advantage. I don't call that cheating. I call that using small details to take advantage. I think baseball is doing a great job adding new technology to make sure the game is even for both teams. It's easy to blame someone when they win."

Sure seems like he knew about it from that quote.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets ... y-in-2017/


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 16, 2019, 10:10 AM Post
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FYI - I moved the Darvish/Yelich stuff to its own thread.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 19, 2019, 7:39 AM Post
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Newest tidbit in the Astros saga is players wearing buzzers to get info. Now this is a bit more speculative by other MLB Execs...but interesting none the less.

Ugly regardless. Seems they had a guy in the dugout tunnel watching a screen even in the WS where a few Astros hitters had crazy home/road splits. I believe this is why they were speculating maybe something on the players body as there are so many mics in the postseason it would be blatantly obvious to start banging a trash can. Personally if some of this came to be true, especially in the postseason or WS, I wish they would drop the hammer on them and take the title away. Of course that is wishful thinking as the Red Sox got a slap on the wrist in the same year and they probably weren't the only ones.

Just has no place in baseball...arguably worse for the game than players getting caught for PEDs.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 19, 2019, 11:48 AM Post
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This has now reached full on, tin foil hat conspiracy level. Next we'll be hearing the Astros hired psychics with ESP to read the minds of players on the opposing teams and transfer those thoughts to Astros players.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 20, 2019, 10:17 AM Post
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Anyone else remember years ago, back in the days of County Stadium and Bernie's Chalet, when the Brewers were accused of stealing signs. Apparently Bernie had binoculars and white gloves and used them to relay signs. I believe the gloves and binoculars were actually found.

Also, I had the opportunity to attend a game in a skybox this year. Spent most of the time inside eating, drinking. visiting, etc. Anyway the tv's were on about a 10 second delay. I was told that it was a league mandate to prevent sign stealing, so the league knew it was going on in some stadiums at some point in the past and had taken steps to address the issue. Apparently more steps need be taken.


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Offline  Re: 2019 Misc MLB News
Posted: November 20, 2019, 10:21 AM Post
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Buzzers eh? Why not put a buzzer (or some other communication device) on the pitcher. Kind of like how the NFL allows communication between coach and QB. Have bench call pitches, many teams already do.


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