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How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?

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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 14, 2019, 7:32 PM Post
Posts: 1243
True Blue Brew Crew said:
I'd love to see the team improved even more myself. That could come at the trade deadline though. Today's perceived needs could be polar opposite those that are apparent 4 months from now. Two things to consider with Kimbrel in general - 1) Have his salary demands come down? The Brewers aren't giving him 6 years, $100 million. 2) Do the Brewers like his trajectory? He showed some chinks in the armor last year. Stearns and Co. might not even like the analytics on him.

Btw, every fanbase is having this same discussion about Kimbrel.


I hear ya, he’s still elite even with late season slight loss of command. 98 mph FB devastating CB. Guessing demands reduced cause of lack of offers. Some have speculated he’d sign high pillow deal or high aav 2 year. I’d go 3 for 56. We have the money. Worried bout the extortion that’s going to take place at the trade deadline in NL. If we don’t sign him hope it’s because of our analytics and not $.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 14, 2019, 8:50 PM Post
Posts: 150
Brew crew 92 said:
Ok, here we are with 2 weeks to go till opening day with Nelson and even more importantly Jeffress missing from the opening day roster.
What’s our current payroll, 127 mil? How much would a World Series title benefit the brewers financially? 50? 100 million? The royals of 2016 had a payroll of 142 mil. Our revenues put us OVER 300 mil. That’s getting close to a mid-market team like the cardinals. We have the $ to invest in more payroll especially since most of it is short term. How much more? That’s up to mark A. Isnt it? I will say the following: we are as close to a World Series team as I can remember, and I’ve been a rabid fan for 49 years, so while Bob Uecker is still broadcasting our games, I am of the opinion we should forgo profit this year and invest in Kimbrel to fix our Jeffress weakness. Kimbrel is sitting there waiting to be had. The value would be there, he’s not getting 5 6 years. Since the value is so down on him right now I’d like to Sign him for 3 years at what 15-18 per year. Still less than 150 million payroll. Hopefully get Jeffress back and Nelson join the rotation and we’d have to be the favorites to at least win the pennant. Fan base also be even more energized leading to an awful lotta sellouts at Miller park. It’s worth the investment.


The Royals were way over there budget in 2016 and had to reduce payroll immediately after the W.S... They had to gut the team because they couldn't afford to pay the FAs. Now they are looking like a 100 loss team only two years later. The latest on Kimbrel is he's still looking for at least 5 years and $100M. He reportedly turned down a 3 year offer at least twice already. I don't know what his value is right now, but he is not getting deluged with offers.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 14, 2019, 9:17 PM Post
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The Royals also got insanely lucky to win that World Series, that is one of the worst World Series teams to win in the past 50 years.

Also talking about parking you have to realize that like half the fans in the stadium park on the street and walk to the game. I remember going to a playoff game one season where the parking lot was half empty because they jacked up the prices and cheap wisconsinites including myself refused to pay. That isn't the revenue stream it could be somewhere else~.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 14, 2019, 10:23 PM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
True Blue Brew Crew said:
I'd love to see the team improved even more myself. That could come at the trade deadline though. Today's perceived needs could be polar opposite those that are apparent 4 months from now. Two things to consider with Kimbrel in general - 1) Have his salary demands come down? The Brewers aren't giving him 6 years, $100 million. 2) Do the Brewers like his trajectory? He showed some chinks in the armor last year. Stearns and Co. might not even like the analytics on him.

Btw, every fanbase is having this same discussion about Kimbrel.


I hear ya, he’s still elite even with late season slight loss of command. 98 mph FB devastating CB. Guessing demands reduced cause of lack of offers. Some have speculated he’d sign high pillow deal or high aav 2 year. I’d go 3 for 56. We have the money. Worried bout the extortion that’s going to take place at the trade deadline in NL. If we don’t sign him hope it’s because of our analytics and not $.


Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Brewers jump in should Kimbrel shift to a short deal. And I'd be excited to add him for sure. I'd love to be privy to the data the Brewers are looking at but I'm not. Thus I can't scream and yell either way, whether they sign him or not. What gives me the most comfort is knowing they'll add without hesitation when and if they need to.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 15, 2019, 8:52 AM Post
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A small market is not going to spend $15mil+ on a reliever when their bullpen is already a strength. That is some luxury the biggest markets on the planet can do if they want. Small markets simply don't spend big money on the bullpen and for good reason. If we won't spend $5mil to get a veteran lefty we surely aren't spending three times that for three times as long for a reliever.

I am not really against the idea persay (I am a big proponent of super pens, much like what we got to employ last season), but the odds the Brewers sign Kimbrel seems to be in the negatives.


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 15, 2019, 9:20 AM Post
Posts: 1243
MrTPlush said:
A small market is not going to spend $15mil+ on a reliever when their bullpen is already a strength. That is some luxury the biggest markets on the planet can do if they want. Small markets simply don't spend big money on the bullpen and for good reason. If we won't spend $5mil to get a veteran lefty we surely aren't spending three times that for three times as long for a reliever.

I am not really against the idea persay (I am a big proponent of super pens, much like what we got to employ last season), but the odds the Brewers sign Kimbrel seems to be in the negatives.


Yes understand your thinking, cause a short time ago I would have agreed with it. But after doing some research and realizing that the Brewers revenues have increased more in the last two years than just about any other team in baseball, we have the $ to invest in a player that is arguably the most elite at his position. The old saying you have to spend money to make money. With JJ’s injury among other things I don’t think our bullpen is a strong as you make it out to be at least starting the year. I can’t think of a single player that would help the Brewers more than Kimbrel.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 15, 2019, 11:02 AM Post
Posts: 10431
Brew crew 92 said:
MrTPlush said:
A small market is not going to spend $15mil+ on a reliever when their bullpen is already a strength. That is some luxury the biggest markets on the planet can do if they want. Small markets simply don't spend big money on the bullpen and for good reason. If we won't spend $5mil to get a veteran lefty we surely aren't spending three times that for three times as long for a reliever.

I am not really against the idea persay (I am a big proponent of super pens, much like what we got to employ last season), but the odds the Brewers sign Kimbrel seems to be in the negatives.


Yes understand your thinking, cause a short time ago I would have agreed with it. But after doing some research and realizing that the Brewers revenues have increased more in the last two years than just about any other team in baseball, we have the $ to invest in a player that is arguably the most elite at his position. The old saying you have to spend money to make money. With JJ’s injury among other things I don’t think our bullpen is a strong as you make it out to be at least starting the year. I can’t think of a single player that would help the Brewers more than Kimbrel.


I think this possibility would be much more likely if Kimbrel was a one year deal candidate. Clearly that isn't the case. I don't see any way the Brewers make a major commitment to have what would be a major luxury to make the bullpen better. What if a major need arises next year or midseason? Going to be really hard to get someone, especially if it requires a longer term deal if you tie up $15mil to Kimbrel.

As much as I would like to dream I don't think there is any way short term we are going to just start busting out a $150mil+ payroll because we are competing.


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 15, 2019, 11:28 AM Post
Posts: 1243
MrTPlush said:
Brew crew 92 said:
MrTPlush said:
A small market is not going to spend $15mil+ on a reliever when their bullpen is already a strength. That is some luxury the biggest markets on the planet can do if they want. Small markets simply don't spend big money on the bullpen and for good reason. If we won't spend $5mil to get a veteran lefty we surely aren't spending three times that for three times as long for a reliever.

I am not really against the idea persay (I am a big proponent of super pens, much like what we got to employ last season), but the odds the Brewers sign Kimbrel seems to be in the negatives.


Yes understand your thinking, cause a short time ago I would have agreed with it. But after doing some research and realizing that the Brewers revenues have increased more in the last two years than just about any other team in baseball, we have the $ to invest in a player that is arguably the most elite at his position. The old saying you have to spend money to make money. With JJ’s injury among other things I don’t think our bullpen is a strong as you make it out to be at least starting the year. I can’t think of a single player that would help the Brewers more than Kimbrel.


I think this possibility would be much more likely if Kimbrel was a one year deal candidate. Clearly that isn't the case. I don't see any way the Brewers make a major commitment to have what would be a major luxury to make the bullpen better. What if a major need arises next year or midseason? Going to be really hard to get someone, especially if it requires a longer term deal if you tie up $15mil to Kimbrel.

As much as I would like to dream I don't think there is any way short term we are going to just start busting out a $150mil+ payroll because we are competing.


I just see the bullpen right now differently than some. Not sure Kimbrel as much luxury as necessity. If our early season schedule wasn’t so brutal and JJ good to go it would be different. Our payroll COULD be 150+ Since our current revenue makes us a mid market franchise.


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 8:07 AM Post
Posts: 1243
MrTPlush said:
Brew crew 92 said:
MrTPlush said:
A small market is not going to spend $15mil+ on a reliever when their bullpen is already a strength. That is some luxury the biggest markets on the planet can do if they want. Small markets simply don't spend big money on the bullpen and for good reason. If we won't spend $5mil to get a veteran lefty we surely aren't spending three times that for three times as long for a reliever.

I am not really against the idea persay (I am a big proponent of super pens, much like what we got to employ last season), but the odds the Brewers sign Kimbrel seems to be in the negatives.


Yes understand your thinking, cause a short time ago I would have agreed with it. But after doing some research and realizing that the Brewers revenues have increased more in the last two years than just about any other team in baseball, we have the $ to invest in a player that is arguably the most elite at his position. The old saying you have to spend money to make money. With JJ’s injury among other things I don’t think our bullpen is a strong as you make it out to be at least starting the year. I can’t think of a single player that would help the Brewers more than Kimbrel.


I think this possibility would be much more likely if Kimbrel was a one year deal candidate. Clearly that isn't the case. I don't see any way the Brewers make a major commitment to have what would be a major luxury to make the bullpen better. What if a major need arises next year or midseason? Going to be really hard to get someone, especially if it requires a longer term deal if you tie up $15mil to Kimbrel.

As much as I would like to dream I don't think there is any way short term we are going to just start busting out a $150mil+ payroll because we are competing.


Just wanted to finish some thoughts from kimbrel thread
I’m old and some people as they get older get sentimental and look at the past with more fondness than they probably should. With that said I hope the brewers can win the World Series while Bud Selig Is still alive AND Bob Uecker still calling brewer games. How great would that be! Father Time is a tickin


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 9:03 AM Post
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Just so everyone is on the same page, the most recent Forbes valuations (which are best guess estimates but still pretty thorough) has the Brewers at 7th in baseball in operating income (+$67 million). This was BEFORE the 2018 season and based on 2017 payroll numbers which were much, much lower than 2018. See below:

2018 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/2018/

2017 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/2017/

So with trades, signings, and in season acquisitions they were on the hook for roughly $40 million more last year than the year prior if I'm reading that correctly. Guessing they will be just slightly higher than that this year.

2019 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/

Also, when does Aramis Ramirez come off the books? Nice gig, ARam.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 2:36 PM Post
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2018 was the last year of Aramis Ramirez’s deferred contract. He was paid $3 million in 2017 and 2018.


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 5:08 PM Post
Posts: 1243
homer said:
Just so everyone is on the same page, the most recent Forbes valuations (which are best guess estimates but still pretty thorough) has the Brewers at 7th in baseball in operating income (+$67 million). This was BEFORE the 2018 season and based on 2017 payroll numbers which were much, much lower than 2018. See below:

2018 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/2018/

2017 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/2017/

So with trades, signings, and in season acquisitions they were on the hook for roughly $40 million more last year than the year prior if I'm reading that correctly. Guessing they will be just slightly higher than that this year.

2019 salaries
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/milwaukee-brewers/payroll/

Also, when does Aramis Ramirez come off the books? Nice gig, ARam.


2017 profit > 67 mil.
2018 profit > 47 mil not incl playoffs(fangraphs estimates 20-30 mil)

Very conservative extra 20 mil in revenue offset by 40 mil higher payroll

2019 > projection > Extra 150,000 attendance > extra 10 mil revenue

2019 >109+47+10 = 166 mil payroll this year to break Even

2018 playoff revenue not used >20-30 mil


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 5:38 PM Post
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It's worth noting for those not familar with accounting that operating income is NOT net profit, as it does not account for taxes or interest expense.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 5:44 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
It's worth noting for those not familar with accounting that operating income is NOT net profit, as it does not account for taxes or interest expense.


Yep. It's all we have to work with though since Forbes doesn't have access to all the numbers.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 5:48 PM Post
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homer said:
PeaveyFury said:
It's worth noting for those not familar with accounting that operating income is NOT net profit, as it does not account for taxes or interest expense.


Yep. It's all we have to work with though since Forbes doesn't have access to all the numbers.


No offense intended, just wanted that out there for the good of the discussion! [smile]


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 5:52 PM Post
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In these operating expense numbers, do the myriad of coaches, support staff, front office staff, scouts, and many, many other people required to run an MLB franchise not get paid? Saying "income minus MLB and MiLB payroll and taxes = PROFIT" isn't at all accurate.


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 6:17 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
It's worth noting for those not familar with accounting that operating income is NOT net profit, as it does not account for taxes or interest expense.


That’s true, but good cpa’s Can work magic so I used conservative estimates on revenue increases to I think more than offset that. Also IF low end playoff revenue added to just this years payroll that comes to:

186 mil one time payroll for 2019. So no wonder all these one year signings. Almost 60 million more for this year to spend so as not to lose $.

This is NOT a small market team at the present time. This not including the following:

Larger national tv deal to pay owners this year
Larger local tv deal starting next year
More income from mlb tv & streaming
There’s more ........ but I’ll stop there
As someone in a earlier post said > mark bought a cash cow

Just stop and think about this information for a time, ruminate on it.
If the payroll is 135-140 mil that’s a 40-45 mil gross profit again in a year we need a certain pitcher not yet signed. If we spend 20+ on him
This year we’d still have 8-13 mil to spend at trade deadline & call ups plus 20-25 mil gross profit.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 6:45 PM Post
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It's really dangerous to make assumptions based on incomplete data. As Roco notes, I'd be curious to know how the operating expenses really look on paper- does that include minor league expenses? The large sums outlayed for the Maryvale project? Or just the day-to-day operations of the big league club itself?

Net of interest and taxes, I'm betting the actual 'net profit' is far less than the estimates being thrown around here based off incomplete surface-level data.


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Offline  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 7:06 PM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
PeaveyFury said:
It's worth noting for those not familar with accounting that operating income is NOT net profit, as it does not account for taxes or interest expense.


That’s true, but good cpa’s Can work magic so I used conservative estimates on revenue increases to I think more than offset that. Also IF low end playoff revenue added to just this years payroll that comes to:

186 mil one time payroll for 2019. So no wonder all these one year signings. Almost 60 million more for this year to spend so as not to lose $.

This is NOT a small market team at the present time. This not including the following:

Larger national tv deal to pay owners this year
Larger local tv deal starting next year
More income from mlb tv & streaming
There’s more ........ but I’ll stop there
As someone in a earlier post said > mark bought a cash cow

Just stop and think about this information for a time, ruminate on it.
If the payroll is 135-140 mil that’s a 40-45 mil gross profit again in a year we need a certain pitcher not yet signed. If we spend 20+ on him
This year we’d still have 8-13 mil to spend at trade deadline & call ups plus 20-25 mil gross profit.


Payroll in 2017 was $69 million. Even if we say the 67 million in operating income was straight profit from 2017, that brings the break even point up to $136 million. Where are you getting the $186 million payroll from? I know that playoff revenue could probably push it a little higher for this season since we made the playoffs, but where is the extra $50 million coming from?


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Online  Re: How much money do the Brewers have left to spend?
Posted: March 24, 2019, 7:07 PM Post
Posts: 1243
PeaveyFury said:
It's really dangerous to make assumptions based on incomplete data. As Roco notes, I'd be curious to know how the operating expenses really look on paper- does that include minor league expenses? The large sums outlayed for the Maryvale project? Or just the day-to-day operations of the big league club itself?

Net of interest and taxes, I'm betting the actual 'net profit' is far less than the estimates being thrown around here based off incomplete surface-level data.


You could be right. But the owners are gonna guard there books with everything they have Which is there right as a private business enterprise. So all we can do is guess based on certain info. I will say the more I read the more apparent it is as to how much $ these guys or corporations are raking in. Things could be worse in brewer land, we could have Nutting owner of the pirates making 50-70 mil year after year refusing to increase payroll as our owner>no thanks. I could be off on my figures, but not by tens of millions. Let’s forget the 186. But what if the 150-160 is break even. I think that’s a figure that would surprise most fans.


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