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Moose is back! [1 yr/$10mm guaranteed; $11mm mutual 2020 option -- post #186]

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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:28 AM Post
Posts: 3891
Location: Madison, WI
Yup, like I said I'm fine with it too and not complaining. The OP basing it off OBP (acting like 30-40 points of OBP isn't significant) and automatically discarding DD like it was just not even remotely logical to consider seemed off though. That extra 8 mil could be valuable later but yes at this point we just trust Stearns and hope for the best. Have to remember he's not perfect though and mistakes can happen


Last edited by tmwiese55 on February 19, 2019, 10:34 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:32 AM Post
Posts: 239
This team was really good down the stretch and probably the 2 best players that weren't coming back were Moose and Miley and with Miley at least we have the young pitchers knocking on the door. Really I would have been OK with the $15 million option since they passed on Schoop, 1 year deals like this are fine, if the season goes bad you can hopefully deal them and get prospects back for your buck. Heck in a perfect world Hiura goes all Ryan Braun and we have too many good hitters by midseason and could even trade someone while in first place. It seems like we have enough to power now that when we have to rest guys like Braun and Aguilar it doesn't hurt the lineup that much. Not a whole lot of downside here in my opinion, he makes the team better and sounds like he has good chemistry with his teammates.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:38 AM Post
Posts: 1455
Location: Madison, WI
Have to admit I would have rather seen the Brewers hold onto this money for a potential big splash at the deadline. Adding his lefty bat does bring a significant upgrade to Spangenberg's bat, and IMO doesn't leave a path for Spangenberg to make the opening day roster unless someone else gets hurt. Grandal (switch), Thames, Shaw, Moustakas, Yelich and Gamel fixes that lefty bat problem the Brewers had at the beginning of the off-season. Still short on lefty pitching....that's the only real hole on the 40 man roster.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:41 AM Post
Posts: 4210
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Oh for sure. Every year there are guys who defy expectations, and sometimes even blow them out of the water. The guys you are referring to are three prime examples. I just think that Stearns has proven so adept at player movement that criticizing the acquisition of Moose while arguing for Derek Dietrich is sort of a shell game. Heck, for all we know Brett Lawrie could end up being the most productive 2B at the end of the year. What I do know is that Stearns did his homework on Dietrich, because he does his homework on all available players. And if he determined that Moose is the better value than Dietrich on a cheap deal, I'm good with it.


You play the games to find out...

I think with Moustakas, it's also about giving him every chance to get a good FA deal in the 2019-2020 offseason.

He'll have a full season playing half his games at a ballpark very friendly to left-handed power hitters. He may also add some serious positional flexibility (adding 2B to his repertoire). I've done some more digging, and he may have a better shot at sticking at second than some think - he had about 65 games at shortstop at the rookie and full-season A levels in 2007/2008. Don't have advanced metrics, but fielding percentages of .976 and .956 show he wasn't a complete hack at shortstop. He also made four starts at first base in 2018 for the Royals.

I think he could surprise on several levels.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 12:04 PM Post
Posts: 3
All signs point to a good year this year, will be supporting the brewers as always at metlife in April.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 12:48 PM Post
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Posts: 3151
Location: California
https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1097928431562481664

2019: $7 million
2020: $11 million OR $3 million buyout

Interesting


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 12:54 PM Post
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Posts: 6348
Warning Track Power said:
https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1097928431562481664

2019: $7 million
2020: $11 million OR $3 million buyout

Interesting


Simple way to defer money on a short-term deal. I suppose it is possible that the mutual option could be exercised by both sides, but not likely.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 1:14 PM Post
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Posts: 53
Location: Canandaigua, NY
Its not often you see so many teammates happy about bringing back a player that mixes up player positions and if that’s truly the case then Moose is a good fit for the Brewers.

On the other side of this move, I’m curious how Shaw or Moustakas’ speed compares to the average 2B. Will it effect the teams ability to turn double plays or increase opponent hits up the middle. Shaw at 2B impressed me last season, but will opponents find ways to exploit this given they have a full season to work different tactics


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 1:25 PM Post
Posts: 487
While the mutual option is likely just a salary deferral, it's pretty reasonable. Net $8mil decision.

If Shaw or Hiura sustains a significant injury or if Aguilar flops in 2019 I could see that mutual option being attractive to both sides.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 1:28 PM Post
Posts: 4210
BrewFan130 said:
Its not often you see so many teammates happy about bringing back a player that mixes up player positions and if that’s truly the case then Moose is a good fit for the Brewers.

On the other side of this move, I’m curious how Shaw or Moustakas’ speed compares to the average 2B. Will it effect the teams ability to turn double plays or increase opponent hits up the middle. Shaw at 2B impressed me last season, but will opponents find ways to exploit this given they have a full season to work different tactics


With the shift, I think it might have some effect, but greatly reduced to the point the bats make it up. Then again, Moustakas did play some shortstop in 2007 and 2008 at the Rookie and Full-Season A levels, so I think he will prove to be decent at second. In fact, both he and Shaw are a bit more defensively flexible than most might think:

Shaw: Played mostly 1B and 3B, but worked out decently at second in 2018, and has some experience in LF.
Moustakas: Played mostly 3B, but limited experience at SS in 2007-2008 and four starts at first in 2018.

Now, Shaw in left and Moose at short maybe desperation options, but let's not think that this is fated to be a defensive disaster.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 1:31 PM Post
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Mutual options are almost never exercised, BUT... with the frozen FA market of the past few offseasons, have to wonder if a few more of them will start being picked up.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 1:49 PM Post
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Posts: 2183
Warning Track Power said:
https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1097928431562481664

2019: $7 million
2020: $11 million OR $3 million buyout

Interesting


With the buyout as a sunk cost (paying $10M for his 2019 season), his net salary in 2020 would be $8 Million, making the second year effectively at a discount.

With both Dubon and Hiura sitting in AAA, I would initially suspect either Shaw or Moustakis would be dealt during the season to open up a spot on the infield....but having a relatively affordable option opens the door to a prospect-for-pitching trade instead.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:08 PM Post
Posts: 6149
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:13 PM Post
Posts: 10305
markedman5 said:
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


Not shocked that was his response. There is no way we would have made a move like this if it was going to handcuff us in July. You simply cannot get into a position where you don't make a move in July because you can't afford it short term. That is an embarrassing fail. The past and the signings of Moose/Grandal make it clear Attansio will implode any short term profits if he thinks we can win a WS.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:23 PM Post
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markedman5 said:
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


The idea that the Brewers are hamstrung by payroll restrictions seems like its a largely made-up idea, stemming from a sour-grapes Cub-fan-written Bleacher Report article penned in December, and a few posters here that seem convinced that the Brewers have no money. The fact is, Attanasio wants to win, and he sees that the window is open just like we all do. He's going to make the moves to make it happen, within reason of course.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:26 PM Post
Posts: 10305
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
markedman5 said:
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


The idea that the Brewers are hamstrung by payroll restrictions seems like its a largely made-up idea.


No it is real, long term payroll is a concern. 1 year deals, not so much.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:38 PM Post
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Posts: 6348
MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
markedman5 said:
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


The idea that the Brewers are hamstrung by payroll restrictions seems like its a largely made-up idea.


No it is real, long term payroll is a concern. 1 year deals, not so much.


We are talking about two different ideas I think. The idea that the Brewers wouldn't be able to go out and fill their holes with free agent acquisitions this offseason was largely a fallacy. Of course they can't hamstring themselves with too many long-term high-dollar contacts. No team should be doing that. But there's been people saying that the Brewers are out of money going back to before they signed Grandal. That was obviously false.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:39 PM Post
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Posts: 11424
Location: Milwaukee, WI
MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
markedman5 said:
I think the aliens have taken over Mark's body.......lol

https://twitter.com/adammccalvy/status/ ... 62433?s=21


The idea that the Brewers are hamstrung by payroll restrictions seems like its a largely made-up idea.


No it is real, long term payroll is a concern. 1 year deals, not so much.


Correct. These deals don’t get done if they are multiple year things. He’s smart. He sees the market is favoring the Brewers right now and they are pouncing as it may never be like this again.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 3:43 PM Post
Posts: 4210
Brew4U said:
MrTPlush said:
No it is real, long term payroll is a concern. 1 year deals, not so much.


Correct. These deals don’t get done if they are multiple year things. He’s smart. He sees the market is favoring the Brewers right now and they are pouncing as it may never be like this again.


And it might not be after the next CBA... unless the union is forced to make some big concessions in return for getting the DH.


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Offline  Re: Moose is back! [Reportedly 1 yr/$10mm]
Posted: February 19, 2019, 10:06 PM Post
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Posts: 5773
tmwiese55 said:
The OP basing it off OBP (acting like 30-40 points of OBP isn't significant)

There is actually a slightly higher correlation between team SLG and runs scored than team OBP and runs scored.

Moustakas' .459 SLG last year versus Dietrich's .421 neutralizes the OBP difference.


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