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Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020

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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#21

Posted: March 06, 2019, 12:56 PM Post
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Paul77 said:
I read this as "active limit" means you can expand your roster to 40, but only 28 can be active for a particular game. I could be 100% wrong, but that was my first impression. That would keep the union happy (more jobs) and address the issue of 37 pitching changes per game. In theory.

I would hope that is the case, as if it's a roster limit then that will really inhibit young guys getting valuable major league experience in September.

Part of me did wonder if that was a ploy by the player's union to deliberately restrict development of young players. If the younger players have less opportunity to show what they can do at the major league level, then it means less confidence in younger players and may increase demand to sign veteran free agents. But I think Paul is correct, and it is how many guys can be active for a game.

Along those lines, I'd support the 26-man roster more if it meant only 25 active guys per game. That being said, deactivating yesterday's starting pitcher will be the standard and it will still mean an extra available body. Could come in valuable in days after extra innings games where more than one pitcher is unavailable, and could eliminate the AAA-majors shuttle which isn't easy on players (ok, go pack your bags, you're going to a different city right now for an undetermined amount of time).


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#22

Posted: March 06, 2019, 4:13 PM Post
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young guns said:
Here's how it should be. You signal from the dugout and the pitcher comes out on a golf cart gets maybe 1 pitch to remind himself that the pitchers mound is just like every other pitching mound and boom we are good to go and it's taken maybe a minute. You want talk to the pitcher to find out if you want to talk him out? Fine, but it counts as a mound visit.


This exactly. There's way too much wasted time during pitching changes. Signal the change from the dugout, drive the pitcher to the mound, and give him 3 pitches to warm up. No one needs the 8 or 10 they already get. Get fully warm in the bullpen, that's why it's there.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#23

Posted: March 06, 2019, 8:45 PM Post
Posts: 907
Location: Oshkosh
young guns said:
To me it seems like they are saying pitching changes add to much time to the game. And so they think to themselves let's have fewer pitching changes and that will solve it, instead of realizing that pitching changes just take forever to happen. We have to wait for the manager to meander to the mound, then he has to chat up the pitcher, then he signals, then the pitcher walks in from 350 feet away and has to throw 10 pitches before we can resume play.

Here's how it should be. You signal from the dugout and the pitcher comes out on a golf cart gets maybe 1 pitch to remind himself that the pitchers mound is just like every other pitching mound and boom we are good to go and it's taken maybe a minute. You want talk to the pitcher to find out if you want to talk him out? Fine, but it counts as a mound visit.


The advertisers may have something to say about this...


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#24

Posted: March 06, 2019, 8:51 PM Post
Posts: 1099
young guns said:
To me it seems like they are saying pitching changes add to much time to the game. And so they think to themselves let's have fewer pitching changes and that will solve it, instead of realizing that pitching changes just take forever to happen. We have to wait for the manager to meander to the mound, then he has to chat up the pitcher, then he signals, then the pitcher walks in from 350 feet away and has to throw 10 pitches before we can resume play.

Here's how it should be. You signal from the dugout and the pitcher comes out on a golf cart gets maybe 1 pitch to remind himself that the pitchers mound is just like every other pitching mound and boom we are good to go and it's taken maybe a minute. You want talk to the pitcher to find out if you want to talk him out? Fine, but it counts as a mound visit.


I vote everybody sprints in ala Todd Coffey.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#25

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:14 PM Post
Posts: 496
adambr2 said:
Sorry, I absolutely hate that one. I'm all about specialization, and specialization is good for the Brewers.

There are also times it's going to end up seeming silly in practice. What if an already overworked pitcher end ups throwing 17 pitches in his first 2 ABs? You're still going to force him to face another?

In reality I think when these situations come up an injury is just going to be feigned. Here's a potential scenario, Brewers lead the Phillies 3-2 in the 8th and Jeffress comes in with 1 runner on first and 0 out and mows down the first two batters he faces and the runner ends up on 2nd. Now Bryce Harper comes up. What Counsell really wants to do is bring in Hader for the last 4 outs of the game, but he can't because of the 3 batter minimum.

What exactly is stopping Jeffress from asking the trainer to come out and look at 'something' and subsequently being pulled from the game?

I just think the whole thing has potential to just be turned into a mockery.


I believe all 3 batter minimum sceniros called for a 10 day DL stay if a pitcher was removed for injury prior to the minimum being reached.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#26

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:23 PM Post
Posts: 496
MadThinker88 said:
I don't know what the fully proposal was regarding the "3 batter minimum" but I was FOR the concept. The reduction of pure specialization and number of "during the inning pitching changes" would definitely pick up the pace of play help the game move along.
I do think the verbage of the proposal was extremely important & I would be very interested in learning what that was.

For example: reliever comes in, throws 3 pitches and induces a double play to end the inning.
Does that equal 1 batter or 2?
It ended the inning, must that same pitcher return to the mound next inning (for 1 or more batters) or can the manager use the natural inning break to change pitchers?

Let's change the example and say the reliever comes in with 2 out and pinch runner on 1st. Before delivering a pitch to the plate, the reliever is able to pick off the runner to end the inning. Same general questions apply.
Does that count as a batter?
Does he need to return to mound the next inning??
Would it count as a batter if on the 1st pitch, the runner tries to steal and is gunned down by the catcher to end the inning???

Saying "3 batters" seems too simplistic and a penalty for a pitcher that was successful for getting his team out of a jam or quickly ending the inning.


Wording could read: minimum of 3 batters or 3 outs. Which ever comes first. That way a pick-off would be considered as one, an induced double play would be two, etc.... Ending an inning would satisfy the minimum no matter how many batters faced, provided a new pitcher is immediately ready to go at the start of the next inning.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#27

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:29 PM Post
Posts: 121
I’m really opposed to the clock until a thorough study has been made on the effect of the clock on pitchers’ arm/elbow/shoulder. It seems I read somewhere (just can’t remember where) that the arm needs more than 20 seconds to recover after each pitch.

I’ve always been for the 26 man roster but I think it should be restricted to a 3rd catcher. I say that because a 25 man roster with just two catchers are in reality a 24 man roster.

I think they’re being stingy with the 28 expanded roster. I’d like to see 29 or 30. That way theoretically you can add one infielder, one outfielder, and one pitcher. I always loved the expanded rosters for teams out of the hunt. It’s great seeing the kids play when it doesn’t matter. I’ve got something a little extra as an incentive when plunking my money down for a late season game.

3hitter minimum? God no. The game needs all the strategy it can get, not the restriction on strategies.

The 15 day fake hurt list will hurt the Brewers.


Last edited by Clemente’s Dream on March 06, 2019, 10:09 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#28

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:33 PM Post
Posts: 496
stalton said:
young guns said:
To me it seems like they are saying pitching changes add to much time to the game. And so they think to themselves let's have fewer pitching changes and that will solve it, instead of realizing that pitching changes just take forever to happen. We have to wait for the manager to meander to the mound, then he has to chat up the pitcher, then he signals, then the pitcher walks in from 350 feet away and has to throw 10 pitches before we can resume play.

Here's how it should be. You signal from the dugout and the pitcher comes out on a golf cart gets maybe 1 pitch to remind himself that the pitchers mound is just like every other pitching mound and boom we are good to go and it's taken maybe a minute. You want talk to the pitcher to find out if you want to talk him out? Fine, but it counts as a mound visit.


I vote everybody sprints in ala Todd Coffey.


One mound is NOT just like every other mound. Some bull pen mounds vary quite drastically from the field mound. Most relief pitchers will tell you the bull pen mounds are USUALLY different than the field mound. However, the number of warm-ups could be cut down to 5 from 8.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#29

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:37 PM Post
Posts: 19183
wntrtxn21 said:
adambr2 said:
Sorry, I absolutely hate that one. I'm all about specialization, and specialization is good for the Brewers.

There are also times it's going to end up seeming silly in practice. What if an already overworked pitcher end ups throwing 17 pitches in his first 2 ABs? You're still going to force him to face another?

In reality I think when these situations come up an injury is just going to be feigned. Here's a potential scenario, Brewers lead the Phillies 3-2 in the 8th and Jeffress comes in with 1 runner on first and 0 out and mows down the first two batters he faces and the runner ends up on 2nd. Now Bryce Harper comes up. What Counsell really wants to do is bring in Hader for the last 4 outs of the game, but he can't because of the 3 batter minimum.

What exactly is stopping Jeffress from asking the trainer to come out and look at 'something' and subsequently being pulled from the game?

I just think the whole thing has potential to just be turned into a mockery.


I believe all 3 batter minimum sceniros called for a 10 day DL stay if a pitcher was removed for injury prior to the minimum being reached.




That's awful too. How many times do we see a guy removed just for precautionary reasons when something happens, grabs something, line drive off a hip, etc?

So the manager needs to choose in that moment between risking his player's health or a guarantee of not having him for 10 games?


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#30

Posted: March 06, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
Posts: 747
The pitch clock and the pitcher's batter limit are "solutions" for speeding up games that dance around the only real reason that games are so long: advertising. It also seems to me that these rules could possibly increase the risk of injury for the players.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#31

Posted: March 06, 2019, 10:40 PM Post
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The Weatherman
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brooks_quichenick said:
The pitch clock and the pitcher's batter limit are "solutions" for speeding up games that dance around the only real reason that games are so long: advertising. It also seems to me that these rules could possibly increase the risk of injury for the players.


This is wrong. Hasn't changed since the '70s.

When I was at spring training last week the minor league pitchers were only using 8-12 seconds of the 20 second pitch clock. It isn't 20 seconds between pitches, it's 20 seconds from when they get the ball to being set.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#32

Posted: March 07, 2019, 4:31 AM Post
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I vote everybody sprints in ala Todd Coffey.[/quote]

A clock could start when the manager leaves the dugout, initiating the pitching change. If a guy needed 8 pitches, the manager could either jog or motion right away for the change. The relief pitcher could either jog or take the bullpen car.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#33

Posted: March 07, 2019, 7:05 AM Post
Posts: 1099
NYChez said:
I vote everybody sprints in ala Todd Coffey.


A clock could start when the manager leaves the dugout, initiating the pitching change. If a guy needed 8 pitches, the manager could either jog or motion right away for the change. The relief pitcher could either jog or take the bullpen car.[/quote]

I was joking about the running part but the more I think about it, if the MLB higher ups want to reduce the "down time" making those transitional periods faster would speed up things, I would think. I know a catcher will don his gear ahead of time, but even somebody to catch a pitchers warm up tosses if the catcher just got out would help as well.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#34

Posted: March 07, 2019, 1:38 PM Post
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All of these proposed changes to speed up the game effect the pitcher. If you want to know what's making games take longer it's that batters are working the count and trying to draw walks instead of trying to put the ball in play early in the count. And there's no rules you change to fix that without greatly changing the game.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#35

Posted: March 07, 2019, 1:41 PM Post
Posts: 4442
KeithStone53151 said:
I like limiting the September callups to 28 players, but I'm not sure how much I like expanding overall rosters to 26. Seems like a complete waste, especially with the 13 pitcher minimum and in the AL with the DH. What's the point in the AL having 13 position players? It might create a few more jobs for veterans, especially those with good platoon splits that could be a late game PH. Also might create a couple jobs for speed guys...as having a speed only guy is a bit more realistic with the expanded roster. I can't see how anyone sees this as generally good for the game, the only purpose to expanding to 26 is creating 30 more roster spots at the MLB level...more money for players and the MLBPA.


What the 26man does is add 182 days? is it? of service time to the Players. but at the same time, limiting to 28 in Sept should a team have used more of that 40man takes away on the young guys that could be playing.

Now does having a 26man mean that you don't get a "26th" man when there's a doubleheader? Or does that go on to 27th man now?

A poster also suggested to speed up the pitching change concept with only a motion from the dugout and a cart out to the mound.
Now, there are many occasions when you see a pitcher mow down 2 batters to start an inning and then give up a hit, walk, and now the 3rd batter comes to the plate. Nobody up to that moment was warming up in the bullpen, coach calls someone to warmup. Smack, another hit on 1st pitch. Time to remove the guy. The warmup in the bullpen is 1 or 2 pitches in.

So, How does that work? You often see that slow walk up to the mound and on field discussion as the way to get the bullpen guy his chance to warm up and not suck and injure himself immediately following.
What are you going to do? mandate that someone is constantly "warmed/warming" up in the bullpen regardless the game situation? You make the pitcher that's lost it continue to throw meatballs or wildly until there's an arm ready to call on?

It's just like when you see an ump or catcher after getting hit by a pitch, the other semi walks out towards the pitcher while giving the one just hit by a ball a chance to recover himself. It's gamesmanship.

All for the pitch clock as you know there are guys that are just time-wasters, just like certain batters every pitch.

I'd probably open up the September rule to 30 guys because there are always teams that have good minor call-ups who are out of the playoff equation and can give fans something to come to home games to see. Think about the Padres this year, they have such a young group to call-up that a limitation on 3 or 2more would affect a potential top 25 prospect being able to play in September.....
I do realize this is applying to 2020 and likely SD gets to use numerous of those guys during this year and September. But who's it going to be in 2020 stacked like SD is currently?


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#36

Posted: March 10, 2019, 7:00 PM Post
Posts: 12323
LouisEly said:
Paul77 said:
I read this as "active limit" means you can expand your roster to 40, but only 28 can be active for a particular game. I could be 100% wrong, but that was my first impression. That would keep the union happy (more jobs) and address the issue of 37 pitching changes per game. In theory.

I would hope that is the case, as if it's a roster limit then that will really inhibit young guys getting valuable major league experience in September.


The first thing that came to mind for me was the fact that the minor league minimum goes up dramatically if you have even one day of service time in the majors and you are also a member of the MLBPA.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#37

Posted: June 10, 2019, 3:26 PM Post

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Posts: 2839
i keep reminding myself of roster expansion next year when i question why the brewers continue to bury jesus aguilar on the active roster.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#38

Posted: June 14, 2019, 10:10 AM Post

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with that 26-man roster, mlb and the mlbpa will be capping the number of pitchers that a club can carry on its active roster from opening day until 31 august. it's been speculated that said limit will be 13 pitchers--which is what the brewers have been carrying for most of the season.

thus, the 26th spot opens up in 2020 for an out-of-options position player like jesus aguilar, hernan perez, manny pina or tyler saladino.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#39

Posted: June 14, 2019, 10:14 AM Post
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djoctagone said:
with that 26-man roster, mlb and the mlbpa will be capping the number of pitchers that a club can carry on its active roster from opening day until 31 august. it's been speculated that said limit will be 13 pitchers--which is what the brewers have been carrying for most of the season.

thus, the 26th spot opens up in 2020 for an out-of-options position player like jesus aguilar, hernan perez, manny pina or tyler saladino.


MLB needs to stop micromanaging stuff. If a team wants to have 17 or 18 pitchers on their roster, who cares. Let them do whatever they want.


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Offline  Re: Rosters to expand to 26 in 2020
#40

Posted: June 14, 2019, 10:33 AM Post
Posts: 1127
Why do people assume that the 3 batter minimum for pitchers limits strategy? I don't think it diminishes strategy at all. Shifts it maybe, but the same considerations still exist in these situations.


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