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Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role

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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#21

Posted: May 05, 2019, 1:20 PM Post
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I think Freddy might be able to go down to triple A and working on his pitching stuff. I also agree they have to do a better job at keeping the ball in the park.But maybe Burnes can work thing out in the pen and Nelson will come back and have a positive impact.


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Online  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#22

Posted: May 06, 2019, 6:50 AM Post
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YoungGeezy1 said:
JohnBriggs12 said:
You always have to take pitching performances with a grain of salt when games go beyond 10 or 11 innings. Hitters become tired, and change their approach trying to hit HR. Advantage goes to pitchers the longer games go.


Still need to get job done & keep ball in Park. Anything good for Burnes helps rebuild confidence on mound.

Chacin
Anderson
Woodruff
Gio
Davies

I think will be rotation moving forward. Think same as Burnes, Freddy should go down & get some good outings under his belt. Burnes will get another opportunity this year & hopefully he is all figured out by then.


I hope that is the rotation is stick with as well once Anderson comes back. I imagine we might see Burch Smith take the ball tomorrow, depending on if he's needed tonight. I think they'll also likely have to find a spot for Nelson in a couple weeks, but I guess Anderson could theoretically go back to the pen. I agree on Freddy as well. Love his stuff, but I don't trust him at all in the pen. He needs to go to San Antonio and work on his secondary pitches.


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Online  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#23

Posted: May 10, 2019, 6:05 PM Post
Posts: 2308
I hope the crew keeps Burnes in the pen the rest of the year, he needs 1 role, and this is it, imo, for this year. If he knows this is his role he can prepare accordingly. With an xtra tick or two on the FB, and his plus slider he should flourish, and give us another dominant arm, towards, a later in the year superpen.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#24

Posted: May 10, 2019, 6:18 PM Post
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Brew crew 92 said:
I hope the crew keeps Burnes in the pen the rest of the year, he needs 1 role, and this is it, imo, for this year. If he knows this is his role he can prepare accordingly. With an xtra tick or two on the FB, and his plus slider he should flourish, and give us another dominant arm, towards, a later in the year superpen.


Meh. I think the situation is fluid. If the current starting staff pitches like it has in the last week then obviously Corbin will remain in the pen role similar to what he was in last year. If we need another starter, perhaps he will fill that role (although I'd think that Nelson will be tried a few times first).

We have a tremendous amount of versatility within our pitching staff, and that is a good thing.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#25

Posted: May 10, 2019, 6:36 PM Post
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I don't think it's fluid right now and I don't see Burnes going back to the rotation in 2019.

It's a catch-22 for this season. If he pitches well, he's too valuable to lose from the pen. If he doesn't pitch well, he's going to San Antonio to work on things.

Burnes' future still may be as a starter but given how bad he was in that role so far, you just don't see contending teams go back into experimentation mode in the middle of the season if things are going well. If he was a Miami Marlin, he'd be starting.

I think it would take multiple starter injuries for Burnes to find his way back into the rotation before next season.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#26

Posted: May 10, 2019, 7:13 PM Post
Posts: 1950
adambr2 said:
I don't think it's fluid right now and I don't see Burnes going back to the rotation in 2019.

It's a catch-22 for this season. If he pitches well, he's too valuable to lose from the pen. If he doesn't pitch well, he's going to San Antonio to work on things.

Burnes' future still may be as a starter but given how bad he was in that role so far, you just don't see contending teams go back into experimentation mode in the middle of the season if things are going well. If he was a Miami Marlin, he'd be starting.

I think it would take multiple starter injuries for Burnes to find his way back into the rotation before next season.



Agree with all this stuff.... he is probably 8 or 9 in the rotation totem pole.
He can look to start again next season. Then again, if he is lights out as a reliever again this year, just Hader him and say your role and nitch is set. Another multi inning option in the pen is a great weapon to have.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#27

Posted: May 10, 2019, 7:38 PM Post
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I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#28

Posted: May 10, 2019, 8:45 PM Post
Posts: 1950
DHonks said:
I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value


His attack mode led to what, 11 HRs, mainly on fastballs that were heartland. The key is throwing the other stuff for strikes and getting ahead in the count.
Relief probably gives him a couple more mphs on his fastball, along with better handpicked matchups from CC. The opportunity for his success is greater. He also seems comfortable with the role of high leverage situation relief pitcher, getting that experience down the stretch and in playoff games last year.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#29

Posted: May 11, 2019, 2:51 AM Post
Posts: 3680
rickh150 said:
DHonks said:
I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value


His attack mode led to what, 11 HRs, mainly on fastballs that were heartland. The key is throwing the other stuff for strikes and getting ahead in the count.
Relief probably gives him a couple more mphs on his fastball, along with better handpicked matchups from CC. The opportunity for his success is greater. He also seems comfortable with the role of high leverage situation relief pitcher, getting that experience down the stretch and in playoff games last year.



No, hit "attack mode" is definitely not what led to him giving up 11 HR's. His lack of FB command and poor luck led to 11 HR's giving up to fastball's that were belt high.

It'd be really stupid on the Brewers side if that was the last chance he got to be a starter(and I don't think the Brewers are stupid). Also...his matchup's weren't really handpicked last year. He was coming in to face whomever whenever they needed him and he was throwing multiple innings.

He's got the makeup and the stuff to be a starter. If he can be better used as a reliever this year again, fine. This year is a bit of an aberration with Wahl/Knebel both going down and Jeffress not looking good, but just looking ahead to the future, he should be a starter again. The very limited number of starts doesn't really tell us anything about what his ability as a starter is.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#30

Posted: May 11, 2019, 2:59 AM Post
Posts: 3680
rickh150 said:
adambr2 said:
I don't think it's fluid right now and I don't see Burnes going back to the rotation in 2019.

It's a catch-22 for this season. If he pitches well, he's too valuable to lose from the pen. If he doesn't pitch well, he's going to San Antonio to work on things.

Burnes' future still may be as a starter but given how bad he was in that role so far, you just don't see contending teams go back into experimentation mode in the middle of the season if things are going well. If he was a Miami Marlin, he'd be starting.

I think it would take multiple starter injuries for Burnes to find his way back into the rotation before next season.



Agree with all this stuff.... he is probably 8 or 9 in the rotation totem pole.
He can look to start again next season. Then again, if he is lights out as a reliever again this year, just Hader him and say your role and nitch is set. Another multi inning option in the pen is a great weapon to have.


A niche role is Daniel Brown as a left handed specialist. Not a power righty who throws multiple pitches being a reliever just because you pulled the plug on him after a handful of starts early in his career.

I'd hate to imagine what Roy Halladay would have become had this been the route he took. And we've got a ton of options just in house for the pen next year. Guys who are not quite ready or might be ready by the end of this year and then two big time power arms coming back next year in Wahl and Knebel.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#31

Posted: May 11, 2019, 8:30 AM Post
Posts: 3086
This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.


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Offline  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#32

Posted: May 12, 2019, 2:23 AM Post
Posts: 3680
Boomer5 said:
This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.



So....after 4 starts in which he was incredibly unlucky with a .452 BABIP and gave up an incredibly high and unstainable HR rate, the ONLY two options that now exist for Corbin Burnes are to either pitch 2 innings a few times a week or "stink it up once every 5 days?"

How many ace pitchers would have been relegated to the pen if we used this type of absurd logic using his age, his pedigree, and the absurdly small sample size? Roy Halladay gave up 14 HR's in 60-some innings at roughly the same age and had a 10 ERA. He was a hard thrower. I wonder if he'd have been better in the pen? Greinke struggled early on and moved to the pen. I wonder if he'd have had a better career and been more valuable had they not moved him back to the rotation?

And there is still a significant difference between being a starter and being a reliever. Starters are far-far more important. If they weren't, you wouldn't see the top reliever in last years game sign for 3 years and 27 million like we saw with Ottavino. They'd get paid closer to what Patric Corbin got paid, 6/140.

And yes, being a starter or a reliever DOES absolutely matter. This is akin to saying, "I don't care if Keston Hiura comes up and is able to start every day at 2nd base," --and then after 10 games of him struggling and being moved to the bench where he starts to thrive--"I just care that he gets us 6 good at-bats a week."

It seems because we did such a great job(by we I mean CC managing the pen and Stearns putting it together) or getting through games last year during that relatively short playoff push and then the post-season, despite not having the Walker Buehler, Kershaw-types, some people on here are greatly diminishing the value and importance a reliable starting pitcher brings, much less one who's capable of being a #2/3 or higher if we're just looking at his ceiling.

You can't expect to contend if you can't get good innings from your starters, and you sure can't develop starters if you just relegate them to the pen because they struggle a bit in the first two weeks they start.

It's great to have relievers like Hader. But if the Brewers thought Hader was closer to Chris Sale, he'd be starting games most likely. And we can still develop them. But you don't turn a guy into one until he fails in the rotation and I need to see him given more than 4 starts before I'll believe he can or cannot succeed there.


There were a lot of people who wanted Woodruff to pitch in that multi-inning type of role in the pen, but we're definitely lucky to see him in the rotation. Hopefully, a year from now when we've got a healthy and better stocked BP, Burnes will be pitching as well as Woodruff is.


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Online  Re: Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role
#33

Posted: May 12, 2019, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 2308
HiAndTight said:
Boomer5 said:
This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.



So....after 4 starts in which he was incredibly unlucky with a .452 BABIP and gave up an incredibly high and unstainable HR rate, the ONLY two options that now exist for Corbin Burnes are to either pitch 2 innings a few times a week or "stink it up once every 5 days?"

How many ace pitchers would have been relegated to the pen if we used this type of absurd logic using his age, his pedigree, and the absurdly small sample size? Roy Halladay gave up 14 HR's in 60-some innings at roughly the same age and had a 10 ERA. He was a hard thrower. I wonder if he'd have been better in the pen? Greinke struggled early on and moved to the pen. I wonder if he'd have had a better career and been more valuable had they not moved him back to the rotation?

And there is still a significant difference between being a starter and being a reliever. Starters are far-far more important. If they weren't, you wouldn't see the top reliever in last years game sign for 3 years and 27 million like we saw with Ottavino. They'd get paid closer to what Patric Corbin got paid, 6/140.

And yes, being a starter or a reliever DOES absolutely matter. This is akin to saying, "I don't care if Keston Hiura comes up and is able to start every day at 2nd base," --and then after 10 games of him struggling and being moved to the bench where he starts to thrive--"I just care that he gets us 6 good at-bats a week."

It seems because we did such a great job(by we I mean CC managing the pen and Stearns putting it together) or getting through games last year during that relatively short playoff push and then the post-season, despite not having the Walker Buehler, Kershaw-types, some people on here are greatly diminishing the value and importance a reliable starting pitcher brings, much less one who's capable of being a #2/3 or higher if we're just looking at his ceiling.

You can't expect to contend if you can't get good innings from your starters, and you sure can't develop starters if you just relegate them to the pen because they struggle a bit in the first two weeks they start.

It's great to have relievers like Hader. But if the Brewers thought Hader was closer to Chris Sale, he'd be starting games most likely. And we can still develop them. But you don't turn a guy into one until he fails in the rotation and I need to see him given more than 4 starts before I'll believe he can or cannot succeed there.


There were a lot of people who wanted Woodruff to pitch in that multi-inning type of role in the pen, but we're definitely lucky to see him in the rotation. Hopefully, a year from now when we've got a healthy and better stocked BP, Burnes will be pitching as well as Woodruff is.


2 things:

1.) the crew NEEDS a high leverage closer type ARM RIGHT NOW in their bullpen, and Burnes is it. Unless they sign kimbrel(which I would do), but highly unlikely.

2.) the crew will start him next year, when as you say, they should have a stacked pen. I believe he’ll be given ample opportunity to develope as a starting pitcher.


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