LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2  [ 33 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

What is with the lack of homegrown talent

Author Message
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#21

Posted: June 23, 2019, 7:22 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1261
To me the record doesn't matter. Yes, I'm happy they are in the thick of it, but do I feel this team has a realistic chance to win the World Series without significant changes (either with current personnel doing a complete 180 or by making personnel changes altogether)? No way. This team has the feel that they could stick it out and maybe get to the postseason, but I don't see them beating beating two teams (and maybe not one) to get to the World Series. With where we were at last year, I would have rather them made the push for 2019 to be the year (which is what the Moustakas and Grandal signings would tend to indicate), but the shift to 60% of the starting rotation to unproven starters does not go along with the all-in mentality. And since we let our best veteran starter go for almost nothing, now we are left with a lackluster starting rotation.

The mention of the Brewers past inability to produce more than a few starting pitchers from the farm didn't imply that the new regime cannot do so, but instead was to demonstrate that it is very difficult. So to think that we'd have three legitimate starters that were ready for 2019 was poor judgement in my opinion (and that was my opinion before the season started... not saying I could do a better job, but I had the feeling with this one that we'd be hurting for starting pitching). They may be ready in a year or two, so hopefully we can have another push before Yelich is a free agent.

The Brewers either needed to make 2019 a "go forward with our young talent" and save money approach, or go all-in and spend. They did some of each and now our team either looks pretty good, or looks like the 2002 Brewers depending on the day.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#22

Posted: June 23, 2019, 7:58 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 2198
The Dodgers (25%/20%), Astros (17%/20%) & Yankees (16%/15%) are the only teams with realistic chances to win the WS according to 538/FanGraphs.

According to BRef it's only the Dodgers (31%) & Astros (15%) with a realistic chance to win the WS.

I guess for me a "major failure" would be something like what the Nationals are doing. Spend a bunch of money, aim to compete, fall on your face.

What the Brewers are doing now, competing for the division/postseason, is exactly in line with expectations.

Coming into the season they were not considered WS favorites & no realistic combination of moves could have made them one.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#23

Posted: June 23, 2019, 8:16 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1261
That may be so, but last year was the first time the Brewers had a chance to get to the World Series in 36 years. Instead of improving the team, many would see that they have regressed. They are in a unique spot, with Yelich being as amazing as he is. They only have him for a guaranteed couple more years, so their window is likely short, and they could have made moves to strengthen the team. They did not. The 2019 team is not as good as the 2018 team, and that’s the major failure.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#24

Posted: June 23, 2019, 8:30 PM Post
Posts: 4237
mtrebs said:
That may be so, but last year was the first time the Brewers had a chance to get to the World Series in 36 years. Instead of improving the team, many would see that they have regressed. They are in a unique spot, with Yelich being as amazing as he is. They only have him for a guaranteed couple more years, so their window is likely short, and they could have made moves to strengthen the team. They did not. The 2019 team is not as good as the 2018 team, and that’s the major failure.


Knebel getting hurt in mid-Spring Training was a huge blow, as was losing Wahl around the same time. The 2019 team talentwise is actually better than the 2018 team, IMO - they're essentially the same group of guys plus adding Grandal, Moose for a full season, a more versatile 4th OF to their roster, and having Hiura on the verge of being an everyday MLB contributor. The problem thus far with the 2019 team is many of their players are having poor years by not being even close to the standards set for themselves in 2017-2018 - that includes Shaw, Jesus, Burnes, Jeffress, Cain, Chacin, Anderson, Jeffress, and others that I'm sure I'm missing.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#25

Posted: June 23, 2019, 9:57 PM Post
Posts: 65
The Brewers have done very well with trades as they have struggled in the realm of "draft and develop" over the last decade. It is difficult to say if the fault lies in the drafting or the developing, but Seid's drafting record does not look good. From a pitching standpoint, the Brewers have always struggled. Jack Z. hit on a couple with Sheets and Gallardo, otherwise you probably have to go back to a scout named Ray Poitevint during the Harry Dalton days who signed Higuera and drafted Bosio and Wegman.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#26

Posted: June 24, 2019, 6:41 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 229
Location: Chicago
The Brewers organizational development system is no different than the majority of the other clubs.

A team is most likely to find a Brain, Fielder, Weeks, etc when drafting in the first ten spots or so. Just like the Cubs drafting Bryant, Schwarber and Baez when picking near the top of the draft.

The Brewers simply traded a lot of talent away late in the Melvin years. Stearns, like nearly all GMs, valued different types of players and remade the minor leagues jesttiaoning players who didn’t fit his sough after profile.

In addition to Yamamoto and Fiers; Cy Sneed (Villar trade) is going to make the major leagues sooner than later. Anthony Banda should be back some time this year as well


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#27

Posted: June 24, 2019, 7:16 AM Post
Posts: 1816
sveumrules said:
mtrebs said:
With the lack of homegrown talent in the past, especially with starting pitching, it was amazing that they thought they somehow happened to now have developed three starters in one season. That may go down as one of the biggest blunders in franchise history, when this window has been one of the best in franchise history and now this season is looking like a major failure.



If this season, where we currently have the 4th best record in the NL (against the 10th highest payroll) is looking like a major failure, what would you call the Giants spending 177 million (3rd in NL) to be the 2nd worst team?

Or the Nationals spending 163 million (4th in NL) to likely miss the postseason? Or the Mets spending 159 million (6th in NL) to likely do the same?


Major failure? We are a playoff team right now! And we have had many options in the rotation, including about all from our system. We'll get Gio back soon too, and we'll do something else by the deadline....


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#28

Posted: June 24, 2019, 11:00 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1261
Again, the team’s record now isn’t really the issue. It’s how the team is playing. They have a lot of holes right now, more than last year. Management didn’t make the team better than last year, and I don’t believe they will do better than last year. We will have to wait and see how it really plays out, but if they don’t make the playoffs or don’t get far, people will be upset that management didn’t make moves to improve the team.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#29

Posted: June 24, 2019, 12:28 PM Post
Posts: 4237
mtrebs said:
Again, the team’s record now isn’t really the issue. It’s how the team is playing. They have a lot of holes right now, more than last year. Management didn’t make the team better than last year, and I don’t believe they will do better than last year. We will have to wait and see how it really plays out, but if they don’t make the playoffs or don’t get far, people will be upset that management didn’t make moves to improve the team.


I think I'd like to see specifics on all these perceived roster holes to know that DS didn't actually make this years roster more talented. IMO heading into spring training this season, their roster was much better than what they had on the NLCS roster simply by adding Grandal and replacing schoop with moose for a full season.

Unless you are a prophet and stated back in March that shaw and jesus would hit like pitchers, knebel would blow out an arm and wahl would blow out a knee, chacin and Byrnes would be terrible, etc, your point is reinforced only by hindsight.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#30

Posted: June 24, 2019, 12:37 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 7244
mtrebs said:
Again, the team’s record now isn’t really the issue. It’s how the team is playing. They have a lot of holes right now, more than last year. Management didn’t make the team better than last year, and I don’t believe they will do better than last year. We will have to wait and see how it really plays out, but if they don’t make the playoffs or don’t get far, people will be upset that management didn’t make moves to improve the team.


Thankfully this team has played well enough that they can play like crap for a week and it doesn't put them in a hole. There's still a long way to go, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a few more stretches of crappy play in them. It's a matter of keeping those stretches small, and taking advantage of the hot stretches by trying to prolong those as much as possible.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#31

Posted: June 24, 2019, 8:35 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1261
Fear The Chorizo said:
mtrebs said:
Again, the team’s record now isn’t really the issue. It’s how the team is playing. They have a lot of holes right now, more than last year. Management didn’t make the team better than last year, and I don’t believe they will do better than last year. We will have to wait and see how it really plays out, but if they don’t make the playoffs or don’t get far, people will be upset that management didn’t make moves to improve the team.


I think I'd like to see specifics on all these perceived roster holes to know that DS didn't actually make this years roster more talented. IMO heading into spring training this season, their roster was much better than what they had on the NLCS roster simply by adding Grandal and replacing schoop with moose for a full season.

Unless you are a prophet and stated back in March that shaw and jesus would hit like pitchers, knebel would blow out an arm and wahl would blow out a knee, chacin and Byrnes would be terrible, etc, your point is reinforced only by hindsight.


I'll clarify that my grief is with the decisions on the pitching side. Although I was fully expecting Aguilar to continue to struggle (or at least revert back to his career norms) based on his second half of the season last year, I was happy about the offensive lineup. I'll still argue that signing Moustakas and Grandal contradicted the approach with the pitching, I'm glad they were signed and without them we'd be in real trouble.

My grief goes back to the pitching decisions. I was completely shocked when we let Miley go and he signed for a very small contract (relatively speaking). Then we broke up our major strength of the bullpen to try out three young guys as starters. Normally this wouldn't be a concern, but the odds of those three being successful and take us to the next level this year were very slim. Now we had to have adjustments to move two of them out of the rotation, and due to other struggles, we are and arm or two short in our starting pitching. I understand letting the young guys get their shot, but not if you are going all in (which the Moustakas and Grandal one-year signings would indicate). It's a contradictory approach, which I would have rather gone all young and target next year or the year after, or made the big splash for 2019. Personally I'd have rather them go for it in 2019 as you never know how long our window is.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#32

Posted: June 24, 2019, 8:48 PM Post
Posts: 4237
mtrebs said:
Fear The Chorizo said:
mtrebs said:
Again, the team’s record now isn’t really the issue. It’s how the team is playing. They have a lot of holes right now, more than last year. Management didn’t make the team better than last year, and I don’t believe they will do better than last year. We will have to wait and see how it really plays out, but if they don’t make the playoffs or don’t get far, people will be upset that management didn’t make moves to improve the team.


I think I'd like to see specifics on all these perceived roster holes to know that DS didn't actually make this years roster more talented. IMO heading into spring training this season, their roster was much better than what they had on the NLCS roster simply by adding Grandal and replacing schoop with moose for a full season.

Unless you are a prophet and stated back in March that shaw and jesus would hit like pitchers, knebel would blow out an arm and wahl would blow out a knee, chacin and Byrnes would be terrible, etc, your point is reinforced only by hindsight.


I'll clarify that my grief is with the decisions on the pitching side. Although I was fully expecting Aguilar to continue to struggle (or at least revert back to his career norms) based on his second half of the season last year, I was happy about the offensive lineup. I'll still argue that signing Moustakas and Grandal contradicted the approach with the pitching, I'm glad they were signed and without them we'd be in real trouble.

My grief goes back to the pitching decisions. I was completely shocked when we let Miley go and he signed for a very small contract (relatively speaking). Then we broke up our major strength of the bullpen to try out three young guys as starters. Normally this wouldn't be a concern, but the odds of those three being successful and take us to the next level this year were very slim. Now we had to have adjustments to move two of them out of the rotation, and due to other struggles, we are and arm or two short in our starting pitching. I understand letting the young guys get their shot, but not if you are going all in (which the Moustakas and Grandal one-year signings would indicate). It's a contradictory approach, which I would have rather gone all young and target next year or the year after, or made the big splash for 2019. Personally I'd have rather them go for it in 2019 as you never know how long our window is.


Understood, but puting the young guys in the rotation was in part predicated on not having much room for them in the pen assuming knebel and wahl were in the back end and pitching to their abilities. And Peralta never really contributed as a reliever last year. Woodruff and Byrnes were great in the pen down the stretch last year, but they both were rightly considered starters until proven otherwise at the start of this year .

The biggest pitching problem for this team has been the fact they don't have a dominant middle of the pen - if knebel was the closer it would have freed up hader to do his thing in the middle innings to preserve a bunch of leads through innings 5-7. Shifting hader to the closer role has snuffed out the bullpen strength. Add in chacins struggles early and the fact only one of the three young starters has pitched well enough to keep a rotation spot, and they've been chasing their tails all year. I get that losing miley hurts, but it wasn't like he was a 200 inning workhorse last season - the brewers do have a lot of pitching depth internally, they have to be counting on it to improve. I'd be shocked if they don't go after pitching via trade over the next month, too.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: What is with the lack of homegrown talent
#33

Posted: June 25, 2019, 7:31 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 3069
I just want to say, I am 110% A-OK with a team that is the result of trading off all of our homegrown talent for another teams talent if that means we are winning. I want to root for a winning team, and honestly, I dont care who drafted who and where they were drafted.

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM
PrinceFielderx1 Said:
If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.


Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2  [ 33 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brew4U, KeithStone53151, MadScientist, moofis, Oxy, Roderick, shanedog19, tmwiese55 and 34 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test