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Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?

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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 18, 2021, 9:26 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
We're gonna have an argument about Braun juicing like 9 years after the fact? Lol.

Seriously...these responses need to just be ignored. Guy has kept his head down for a decade. Move on man.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 18, 2021, 9:57 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
We're gonna have an argument about Braun juicing like 9 years after the fact? Lol.


It's not the juicing that's the problem. I'm sure a lot of players use PED's and never get caught and we will never think less of them. And a lot of players get caught and take their punishment and move on.

The problem is the lying and pointing the finger of blame at an innocent man. Huge difference. I can't think of another guilty PED user not named Lance Armstrong who went to greater lengths to deceive the public into thinking he was clean and vilify the people who supported a contrary view.

For the most part I had let it go. I actually never have booed Braun. I've also never cheered him. But when I hear people say he "deserves" a Miller Park send off I see red. The man is no hero.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 18, 2021, 10:26 PM Post
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I’m not going to defend Ryan Braun’s actions or personality but the repeated misery that his beautiful swing has brought upon self-righteous Cubs and Cardinals fans has given me nothing but joy. I cheer the guy because of how much it annoys the opposing fans. #RyanBraunForever


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 18, 2021, 10:28 PM Post
Posts: 8308
14 seasons and you won’t forgive him because of one horrible mistake.

He didn’t beat his wife......didn’t kill anyone......he had a moral lapse......that he apologized for....not only to our fan base but also to the man he wronged.

He will get an ovation if he comes back.......everyone deserves a chance at redemption.......he has done everything right since that incident.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 3:13 AM Post
Posts: 5327
sveumrules said:
turborickey said:
This team as it sits now, can not compete with LA and SD, it is just silliness to think otherwise. Financially, we simply have no shot.


"This team as it sits now, can not compete with NY and BOS, it is just silliness to think otherwise. Financially, we simply have no shot." -DevilRaysFan.net

On February 10th 2018 did you think the Brewers could compete with the Cubs or Dodgers? I'm guessing you didn't but that didn't stop them from beating the Cubs for the division & going to G7 of the NLCS with LA.


Brewers imo had a better team then and Dodgers imo had a worse team then. It's like moving 6 games each in the opposite direction.

You only get by LA with that team hurting at multiple positions.


Last edited by brewcrewdue80 on February 19, 2021, 3:31 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 3:30 AM Post
Posts: 5327
Axman59 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
We're gonna have an argument about Braun juicing like 9 years after the fact? Lol.


It's not the juicing that's the problem. I'm sure a lot of players use PED's and never get caught and we will never think less of them. And a lot of players get caught and take their punishment and move on.

The problem is the lying and pointing the finger of blame at an innocent man. Huge difference. I can't think of another guilty PED user not named Lance Armstrong who went to greater lengths to deceive the public into thinking he was clean and vilify the people who supported a contrary view.

For the most part I had let it go. I actually never have booed Braun. I've also never cheered him. But when I hear people say he "deserves" a Miller Park send off I see red. The man is no hero.

Ignorant to the fact Braun was backed in to this corner when ESPN guy leaked what was supposed to remain behind closed doors that he was voted innocent in Arb process due to the story Braun now had to tell. To this day nobody but MLB and Braun would know of his test that popped positive. You're basically saying the hate you have for Braun is him telling the truth of why his test popped positive and he was found not guilty by MLB arbitrators. I don't blame him for his actions when he was betrayed by a media snitch disobeying MLB rules. Can you tell me another time you have heard of a player who was innocent to a popped PED? No? Maybe because they all remained behind closed doors, as Braun,s should have.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 6:08 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I wouldn’t give him a round of applause because I think he’s the greatest human alive, although he’s done a 180 in his personal life it seems. I would stand and clap because he’s given the Brewers countless memories of great baseball moments. On top of that, a person making a mistake and coming out the other side of it a better human is a great thing. Braun seems to have done that with his family and definitely all his efforts in both communities he’s a part of. So yeah, a fan send off and a few more clutch moments would be a great way to have Braun go out.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 8:01 AM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
Axman59 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
We're gonna have an argument about Braun juicing like 9 years after the fact? Lol.


It's not the juicing that's the problem. I'm sure a lot of players use PED's and never get caught and we will never think less of them. And a lot of players get caught and take their punishment and move on.

The problem is the lying and pointing the finger of blame at an innocent man. Huge difference. I can't think of another guilty PED user not named Lance Armstrong who went to greater lengths to deceive the public into thinking he was clean and vilify the people who supported a contrary view.

For the most part I had let it go. I actually never have booed Braun. I've also never cheered him. But when I hear people say he "deserves" a Miller Park send off I see red. The man is no hero.

Ignorant to the fact Braun was backed in to this corner when ESPN guy leaked what was supposed to remain behind closed doors that he was voted innocent in Arb process due to the story Braun now had to tell. To this day nobody but MLB and Braun would know of his test that popped positive. You're basically saying the hate you have for Braun is him telling the truth of why his test popped positive and he was found not guilty by MLB arbitrators. I don't blame him for his actions when he was betrayed by a media snitch disobeying MLB rules. Can you tell me another time you have heard of a player who was innocent to a popped PED? No? Maybe because they all remained behind closed doors, as Braun,s should have.


Can you expand on this more? I don't know if I fully know this story, or I'm just not remembering.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 8:28 AM Post
Posts: 22548
brewcrewdue80 said:
Axman59 said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
We're gonna have an argument about Braun juicing like 9 years after the fact? Lol.


It's not the juicing that's the problem. I'm sure a lot of players use PED's and never get caught and we will never think less of them. And a lot of players get caught and take their punishment and move on.

The problem is the lying and pointing the finger of blame at an innocent man. Huge difference. I can't think of another guilty PED user not named Lance Armstrong who went to greater lengths to deceive the public into thinking he was clean and vilify the people who supported a contrary view.

For the most part I had let it go. I actually never have booed Braun. I've also never cheered him. But when I hear people say he "deserves" a Miller Park send off I see red. The man is no hero.

Ignorant to the fact Braun was backed in to this corner when ESPN guy leaked what was supposed to remain behind closed doors that he was voted innocent in Arb process due to the story Braun now had to tell. To this day nobody but MLB and Braun would know of his test that popped positive. You're basically saying the hate you have for Braun is him telling the truth of why his test popped positive and he was found not guilty by MLB arbitrators. I don't blame him for his actions when he was betrayed by a media snitch disobeying MLB rules. Can you tell me another time you have heard of a player who was innocent to a popped PED? No? Maybe because they all remained behind closed doors, as Braun,s should have.



Braun was not found "innocent" by an arbitration panel, that is just not accurate. There is a big difference between innocence and acquittal. Braun's acquittal was based primarily off chain of custody. It was not based off a presumption of innocence.

You are correct in saying that the process should have remained confidential and if the confidentiality had remained in place than the failed test result should have never come to light in the first place based on the eventual acquittal. However, Braun's reputation still would have been tarnished eventually based on the 2013 Biogenesis scandal.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 8:32 AM Post
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RobDeer 45 said:
Can you expand on this more? I don't know if I fully know this story, or I'm just not remembering.


Long story short - and I'm probably forgetting something - but the result of drug tests are secret until a second confirmed positive test or an actual punishment is handed down (one of these - I may be a little off, but you get the gist). Braun's initial positive test was leaked (no pun intended, but definitely enjoyed), which started the drama with him lying about it, the criticism of the specimen handler, etc. As brewcrew said, Braun even won an arbitration hearing on it.

If the positive test wasn't leaked, the worst thing that would have happened would have been Braun maybe eventually tested positive again, get suspended, done. But when news leaked without any actual announcement or action by MLB, Braun probably felt backed into a corner and decided to mount his public defense.

Now, some of the way he defended himself was questionable for sure, but I don't blame him for trying. I don't think most of us would have been like, "Welp, even though MLB hasn't said anything and there is no public proof, yup, I did PEDs."


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 8:51 AM Post
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Blaming the collector was a crappy move, there is no rationalizing it. wish he had just said nothing other than he would have no comment on what was supposed to be a confidential process, was pleased about his exoneration, and wanted to focus on baseball. However, just because someone does something crappy doesn't make them a crappy person. People make mistakes and do bad things.

For what it's worth, I believe Braun has made amends with the collector who has forgiven him. If the collector is over it, I see no reason not to be.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 9:51 AM Post
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Sorry on wrong term. Acquittal vs not guilty.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 10:08 AM Post
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He got what he deserved. Sure, it got leaked on him...but he was the one fighting the positive test on a technicality with no science to actually back it up. It isn't like the seal was tampered with or something. Karma rightfully got him a few years later. I don't see him really wrongfully treated these days. Most fans have gotten over it, even opposing fans. You are never going to please everyone...people hated Braun before.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 10:12 AM Post
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He juiced and got caught and suspended like the others who were caught. These are baseball players, they are not pastors. Occasionally they hit ball good. Don't let them be more than that in your life. If you like the way he hit the ball and want to cheer him for that, you can.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:53 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
Blaming the collector was a crappy move, there is no rationalizing it. wish he had just said nothing other than he would have no comment on what was supposed to be a confidential process, was pleased about his exoneration, and wanted to focus on baseball. However, just because someone does something crappy doesn't make them a crappy person. People make mistakes and do bad things.

For what it's worth, I believe Braun has made amends with the collector who has forgiven him. If the collector is over it, I see no reason not to be.


Wasn't the mishandling of the specimens the reason the arbitration panel voted in his favor? If I recall correctly, the collector took the samples from the stadium, and instead of delivering them directly to FedEx as he was supposed to, he brought them home for the weekend before delivering them to FedEx on Monday.

Anything could have happened to these samples over the weekend. Because the chain of custody was blatantly breached, the evidence wasn't valid, and the arbitration panel voted in Braun's favor.

I'd bet that any police officer, lawyer, or judge would tell you that chain of custody is pretty important for evidence. Everyone involved in this proceeding (MLB, the players union, Braun) should be upset over how the collector mishandled evidence. He had a simple task and he failed miserably, and that's why Braun won his hearing.

The arbitration panel is apparently made up of three people. One is named by MLB, and that person has never voted in a player's favor. One is named by the union, and that person has never voted against a player. One is "independent," so that person is really the one who makes the decision. The person in Braun's case had done a lot of cases and had never voted in a player's favor until he voted in Braun's favor. Selig didn't like the verdict, so he fired the "independent" judge after his decision in the Braun hearing.

But Braun didn't get "convicted" for that instance, he won his hearing and was allowed to continue playing. He got in trouble when his name was found on a piece of paper in the Biogenesis proceedings. The Miami Herald, which broke the story and who had all of the data from Biogenesis, left Braun's name out of their story because after looking at all of the information from Biogenesis they didn't think he was guilty. Selig found out about Braun's name, threatened a lawsuit that would bankrupt the owner of Biogenesis, and only called off the lawsuit when the owner read the statement MLB prepared for him. After this, Braun had to make his apology and serve his suspension, or he probably would have been banned from baseball for life.

I have no idea if Braun did HGH, he probably did. I do think that Selig used "mob tactics" to do everything he could to make sure that Braun was suspended, and I lost a lot of respect for how he handled this whole thing.

This is all from memory of events that happened a long time ago, so fire away if my memory is off, or I'm forgetting something.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:59 AM Post
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https://madison.com/sports/baseball/pro ... f2c59.html


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 1:16 PM Post
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Do you want to know the terrifying truth...or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?

Since we already know the terrifying truth, might as well watch Braun sock a few more dingers.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 1:31 PM Post
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The way I've always looked at it is he got caught cheating. He then doubled down trying to save his reputation and got called out on that. When he got Rodgers involved to vouch for him, and then the truth came out, that was ugly. I'm sure that burnt that bridge. I've said this on here many times, I almost feel bad for Braun in the end. He did it to himself, but he seemed to come out of all this almost broken. Maybe it was a shot of humility that he needed. He just never seemed like the same person. I also don't think he needed to use PEDs, he was a great hitter. I know he was probably playing with more energy, staying healthy, and getting the mental boost that comes along with the confidence. I'll look back on his time here and remember many of the good times, but again, will always feel bad for him. He would have been celebrated as one of the all time Brewers, but now it will never be the same.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 2:31 PM Post
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Bottom line is that Braun was a really good player for a long time, he got caught doing something against the rules, screwed up the response, seems like a good dude and teammate otherwise, and it will be weird for him to not be on the team anymore.


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Offline  Re: Is 2020 Braun’s last year in Milwaukee?
Posted: February 19, 2021, 4:08 PM Post
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Braun was the guinea pig. He was the first player of any consequence to be caught by a PED test. There was no template for him to follow, he became the template for what NOT to do after testing positive and being suspended.

People want to blame him for the collector losing his job or whatever. That's not why though, he was fired because he screwed up. It's understandable how and why what he did went down the way it did but it was a huge mistake waiting to happen due to the procedure not being meticulously nailed down beforehand and that guy was the casualty. I understand he caught a lot of hostile treatment from angry fans that went way too far by tracking down where he lived and stuff like that, that says more about those people than it does Braun. Does anybody really think that guy wasn't going to get exposed if Braun never mentioned him (he didn't even use the guy's name)? Seriously? Come on, be smarter than that. That guy was screwed the second the story hit the headlines.

Anyway, baseball fans "hate" players around the league for various reasons, who am I to say hating a guy for doing PEDs is any different? I don't like lots of dudes, Yadi Molina comes to mind. I guess if I can "hate" him, others can "hate" Braun. But he's more than ok in my book.


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