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Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?

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Online  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#21

Posted: August 04, 2019, 2:37 PM Post
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Still not sure why expecting any MLB starting pitcher in any rotation is asking too much... not an all in move, but it would surely help us this year.


Because as Stearns smugly put it last year. “We like our pitching more than most”.

They marginally sold at the deadline. Trading from their major league team for a minor league player. As for Dubon, Stearns was just quoted as saying they view Black as having premium stuff.

In that context they got a lot for Dubon a player with questionable offensive upside at the MLB level. A reliever with premium stuff and another left handed reliever


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Online  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#22

Posted: August 04, 2019, 2:49 PM Post
Posts: 11099
It was pretty clear when they added no meaningful starters they didn’t feel like investing in this team and would just roll with what they had. Whatever...I don’t care if they try to make a run instead of trading Grandal/Moustakas. Both would have returned very little to us.

Did we get better? Sure, marginally...kind of a crapshoot with two months to go. Guys can go on a cold streak or hot streak.

I do not think they sold in any form of the word though...they just went with minor additions.


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Online  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#23

Posted: August 04, 2019, 3:16 PM Post
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Lets wait and see what Black and Fauria do in 2020. Brewers may see something in those pitchers. Change of scenery improvements happen all the time. Losing Dubon is not a loss. I do not think he is an MLB starting player.


I think you get Burnes back as a starter and let Hauser start rest of year and see what you got in them.


To me the real question is how do you improve the offense especially hitting with RISP. Emphasize high OBP players like Grisham? Sign a higher OBP 3b for next year? I dont what you can do about catcher.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#24

Posted: August 04, 2019, 3:44 PM Post
Posts: 1950
PeaveyFury said:
rickh150 said:

A .300 hitter with 20 plus HRs while playing at SS?


Rick, AAA numbers are practically video game numbers this year. Saladino hit 14 HR and slugged almost .570 there as a middle IF....


PeavyFury, I understand....but you are making his numbers out to be a detriment.

I wouldn't put my nose up at his numbers or make like they do not matter. He hasn't played MLB ball yet, and no one knows how he will respond. He may be having a down year or be a late bloomer. He is still highly thought of and our SS position could have easily been upgraded by someone like him.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#25

Posted: August 04, 2019, 5:37 PM Post
Posts: 3017
The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#26

Posted: August 04, 2019, 5:45 PM Post
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i wish we would have kept Dubon and was fine with everyone else. I don't even mind trading Dubon because I don't think he's a ft for the bench role and he doesn't really have a place as a starter. He the wrong fit this team at this time. I Just think we should have traded him in the winter for a better fit going forward.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#27

Posted: August 04, 2019, 5:46 PM Post
Posts: 17944
They didn't "cash in" on Dubon. They got 2 guys with almost literally no surplus value. It's hard to believe he wouldn't be more valuable to us as a cost-controlled utility infielder for the next 6 years than what we got, even if he didn't hit enough to start.

The industry must view Dubon as more of a Nick Franklin than a Hernan Perez for him to return this little.


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Online  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#28

Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:03 PM Post
Posts: 11099
adambr2 said:
They didn't "cash in" on Dubon. They got 2 guys with almost literally no surplus value. It's hard to believe he wouldn't be more valuable to us as a cost-controlled utility infielder for the next 6 years than what we got, even if he didn't hit enough to start.

The industry must view Dubon as more of a Nick Franklin than a Hernan Perez for him to return this little.


I guess I am a bit surprised they wouldn’t roll the dice on Dubon when Arcia has sucked for years and they don’t seem to be fond of him anymore. Sure these pitchers may have some “interesting” features or promise...but hardly more than Dubon.

I guess I don’t get the excitement for those pitchers. We can find similar value/potential pitchers on the scrap heap 365 days a year.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#29

Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:20 PM Post
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Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#30

Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:31 PM Post
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Oxy said:
Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.


Other than his K/9, Black's Minor League numbers are nothing special, never have been and he's almost 30.

There are guys like this that you hear about taking a flyer on all the time. Maybe not with the K/9 numbers he has, but there's a reason he's 29 and still hasn't really gotten a shot in one of the better organizations in baseball for pitcher development.

I believe that Stearns fell in love with him and had to have him, but beyond that, I'll believe it when I see it that a guy at his age and minor league numbers is just going to suddenly morph into a late inning stud reliever at the MLB level.

Obviously they don't even think he can be a contributor right now much less a late inning guy, or he'd be here, because he's certainly not being blocked. I'd say the odds of him being a major late inning guy are probably somewhat less than him not even making the team out of spring training next year and being gone just that quickly.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#31

Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:46 PM Post
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My issue is mostly the lack of committing to a direction. Was very Melvin-esque in that regard: a "buy" being to acquire Tony Graffanino to signal a move to the fans that the team is crying, and a "sell" demanding "major-league ready" talent, which usually means ready to sit the major league bench. And these moves almost had a little of each within them which made them ever more strange.

I was fine with selling, and wouldn't have complained about getting low-minors potential for All-Stars on expiring contracts - it was a clear direction. I was also fine with buying, and wasn't being silly by demanding Greinke or Syndergaard - the prices for many relievers weren't what we gave up for Pomeranz and Black, and many starters wouldn't have bankrupted our already meager farm.

I like Faria's potential, though it is trademark of the confusion to me: if you're improving this year's team, he doesn't go to AAA. If you're selling for prospects, I'd rather have an A+ arm with some upside. The Dubon trade I don't understand - Pomeranz is similar to the relievers every contending team acquired for next to nothing, but has less of a track record as a reliever. Black has upside, but without options next year the risk is enormous; it's probably a coin flip that he gets DFA'd before the year is out, if he even manages to stay healthy.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#32

Posted: August 04, 2019, 6:47 PM Post
Posts: 1950
adambr2 said:
Oxy said:
Black has a strange profile. It sounds like he could become a major contributor in the pen. Dubon had almost no upside, and is easily replaced with Perez or Spangenberg or any number of guys. The only thing he had going for him was a couple of options. We'll see what happens.


Other than his K/9, Black's Minor League numbers are nothing special, never have been and he's almost 30.

There are guys like this that you hear about taking a flyer on all the time. Maybe not with the K/9 numbers he has, but there's a reason he's 29 and still hasn't really gotten a shot in one of the better organizations in baseball for pitcher development.

I believe that Stearns fell in love with him and had to have him, but beyond that, I'll believe it when I see it that a guy at his age and minor league numbers is just going to suddenly morph into a late inning stud reliever at the MLB level.

Obviously they don't even think he can be a contributor right now much less a late inning guy, or he'd be here, because he's certainly not being blocked. I'd say the odds of him being a major late inning guy are probably somewhat less than him not even making the team out of spring training next year and being gone just that quickly.


I heard Black has no options beginning next year...


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#33

Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:07 PM Post
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It seems like the moves made at the deadline were much more with 2020 in mind than 2019. I’m fine with that, but as others have mentioned I just wish they would have gone in with both feet and reset the roster by getting value for the upcoming free agents and inserting players they want to evaluate/audition for their potential role next season.

I agree that it’s tough to make an argument that the Brewers “cashed in” on Mauricio Dubon when it appears they pretty clearly lost value on that deal. I do believe they could have gotten something more valuable in exchange for Dubon this off-season.

Ultimately the Brewers are going to have to strike gold on finding a couple of solid starters this off-season as well as probably hitting on acquiring another impact bat.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#34

Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:21 PM Post
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I just couldn't understand the lack of getting at least one more back end of the rotation type(like Roark). Oakland didn't give up much to acquire him. All i know is I hope like hell, they get smart and buy some pitching next year in FA, and trade Zach Davies. Want him nowhere near this staff next year.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#35

Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:22 PM Post
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Black will make the team out of SP, purely because Stearns traded for him. He'll have to fail at the MLB level before being DFA'd. Unfortunately, the 13th man in the pen is rarely an actual MLB quality pitcher anyway...


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#36

Posted: August 04, 2019, 7:35 PM Post
Posts: 351
djoctagone said:
rickh150 said:
3. Huge overlook by media....Faria and Ray are out of options next year! Hader, Jeffress, Knebel, Wahl, Claudio, Faria, Ray... who is going to be optioned back and forth next year? Troublesome. This doesn't help next year's group's depth much (as is) because of lack of some guy's optioning and the risk of losing them!

assuming none are optioned for more than 20 days in 2019, josh hader and bobby wahl will each enter 2020 spring training with two minor league options and alex claudio with one.


They will never option Hader. I believe they re-sign Pomeranz as a lefty in the pen next year and say adios to Claudio. Wahl is iffy even assuming he's on the opening day roster. As horrendous as Jeffress has been and given he will be owed $4.3M next year, I doubt they keep him too. They almost have to keep Faria and Ray or lose them for little or nothing. Many internal options for the pen next year if Knebel comes back as good as ever. Starters are a totally different story.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#37

Posted: August 04, 2019, 8:16 PM Post
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Outside of Moose and Grandal who was there realistically to sell? Two month rentals bring back next to nothing these days. They might as well have held on to those guys and hope August and September fall in their favor. I mean weren't they a game out of a wild card on July 31? This team looks mediocre on the field but I don't know how you can give up on a season when you're one game out of the playoffs.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#38

Posted: August 04, 2019, 9:32 PM Post
Posts: 1950
Never Outhustled said:
The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.


1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.
2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead
3. What was the team's record in September?
Outhustled.


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#39

Posted: August 04, 2019, 10:10 PM Post
Posts: 3017
rickh150 said:
Never Outhustled said:
The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.


1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.
2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead
3. What was the team's record in September?
Outhustled.


1. Even with Woodruff out, we have 3 starters with sub 4 ERAs plus a fast developing Hauser, and Lyles. Lyles looks back on track after fixing his pitch tipping.

2. Dubon was a scrap. We got 2 scraps for him. Black has the look of the very common late developing late inning reliever.

3. The team took off in September because of Yelich, not because of Schoop. It could happen again.

4. The Aguilar trade opened the door to bring up Grisham, a potential superstar.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..


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Offline  Re: Trade Deadline Rant- How are we better?
#40

Posted: August 05, 2019, 7:13 AM Post
Posts: 1950
Never Outhustled said:
rickh150 said:
Never Outhustled said:
The rotation is quietly becoming the strength of the team.

Cashing in Dubon now was a smart move. He won't hit enough.

Last year, the team did poorly at the deadline. This year we did well.


1. The rotation is the root of all our problems.
2. No cashing in from Dubon trade..... scraps instead
3. What was the team's record in September?
Outhustled.


1. Even with Woodruff out, we have 3 starters with sub 4 ERAs plus a fast developing Hauser, and Lyles. Lyles looks back on track after fixing his pitch tipping.

2. Dubon was a scrap. We got 2 scraps for him. Black has the look of the very common late developing late inning reliever.

3. The team took off in September because of Yelich, not because of Schoop. It could happen again.

4. The Aguilar trade opened the door to bring up Grisham, a potential superstar.


3. No, no... The deadlineS brought on a host of help from Granderson, Soria, Moose, Cedeno...


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