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2020 Brewers Starters

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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#21

Posted: August 12, 2019, 10:05 AM Post
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phnxcrew said:
Gio should be locked up now. The way that the market is, gio could be had for 2/10. Sorry, but Jordan shouldn’t be the quality we go for. Get gio as a backend, trade some surplus and sign a frontline starter to pair with woodruff. No matter who we buy the hitting stinks so let’s try some pitching for once.


Gio was more or less a league average pitcher in 2018. This year he has pitched a total of 50 innings and was released by one team. Guys like that don't typically have teams banging in their door for multi-year deals. I think he's definitely someone we could look to bring back for 2020 though.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#22

Posted: August 12, 2019, 10:20 AM Post
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Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#23

Posted: August 12, 2019, 10:38 AM Post
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They need to let the season play out before looking to 2020. Most of their pitchers have up and down performance histories or have yet to establish themselves as reliable major leaguers. A number are returning from injury sooner or later. They need to first evaluate who they have under control, then arbitration guys and, lastly those who will be free agents. Save for Woodruff and Hader they have a lot of arms but more questions than answers.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#24

Posted: August 12, 2019, 10:44 AM Post
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I think Peralta is firmly in the bullpen at this point, but I wouldn't write off Burnes completely as most seem to. He's still young, he clearly has the stuff, something is simply off right now. The arm is so good, I think the smart money should be on him finding a fix eventually and being a really good arm for us at some point. Maybe that's 2020, maybe not.

I think Woodruff is probably the only lock at this point. Anderson is a lock if his option is exercised. Have to think it probably will be but no guarantees yet. Unless we add someone, it will probably be Davies, Nelson, Burnes, Suter, Houser, Supak, Brown and Faria competing for 3 rotation spots. I think smart money should be on us bringing in someone like Lyles/GG and letting that group compete for 2 spots instead of 3. In an ideal world, we shell out and finally bring in a high end arm for whatever prospects we have to pair with Woodruff...but Stearns has shown he's hesitant to make that move.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#25

Posted: August 12, 2019, 10:44 AM Post
Posts: 1802
I'm tired of not having a decent staff. I definitely bring Gio back, to go with Woody and Chase(probably), then I make a SERIOUS run at Gerritt Cole, Zach Wheeler or Madbum..any one of those 3 works for me.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#26

Posted: August 12, 2019, 5:04 PM Post
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Woody, Chase, and then three of Houser, Davies, Gio, Lyles, and Nelson depending on what Gio/Lyles/Nelson are willing to come back for and how Nelson looks in spring training. AAA depth is Burnes, Peralta (too early to give up on him as a starter), Supak, Brown, Bettinger. If they need more than 10, their season is toast.

I do give some credit to the thought of moving on from three of Davies/Gio/Lyles/Nelson and making a big free agent splash. If they do, they'll need Houser and his pre-arb salary in the rotation instead of those four in order to afford it.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#27

Posted: August 12, 2019, 6:34 PM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:


2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy



Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#28

Posted: August 12, 2019, 7:06 PM Post
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MillerParkSouth said:
Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.


I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#29

Posted: August 12, 2019, 7:21 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
MillerParkSouth said:
Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.


I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.


He shouldn't be and he won't be.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#30

Posted: August 12, 2019, 7:53 PM Post
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homer said:
MrTPlush said:
MillerParkSouth said:
Good chance it’s going to be Woodruff, Anderson, Davies, Hauser and then one of Burnes, Sutter, or Faria. I wouldn’t mind bringing Gio or Lyles back as depth depending on how the market plays out.


I’d venture to say the chances that happens is lower than 5%. The rotation was the problem this year...it was really bad. We tried to do it internally and the internal options bombed so bad most were sent to AAA at one point.

Stearns is going to get one notable addition...at least. If not he should be on the hot seat and get fired if the rotation bombs once again. At some point this is a competing team with high potential. Add to it and overspend a bit if you have to.


He shouldn't be and he won't be.


Maybe in your opinion. He won’t sit on his hands and roll the dice on a bunch of mediocre sure things and a few internal options so it is irrelevant.

If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.

But Stearns isn’t an idiot and like any other semi competent GM will go out and try to fix his biggest problem.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#31

Posted: August 12, 2019, 9:35 PM Post
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They will have a hard time lowering the team salary next year. Braun and Cain still there, filling out the roster puts them right up to this year's level at least. Really doubt they pay big bucks for a SP. I know you used the word notable, maybe you dont mean a big contract.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#32

Posted: August 13, 2019, 1:33 AM Post
Posts: 7944
A Swing and A Drive said:
Woodruff should be the only lock, IMO.

Brewers won't be making the playoffs anytime soon with this hodgepodge of mediocre talent in the starting rotation.

Let FA's Chacin, Gio, Pomeranz and Lyles walk. (sign a better Free Agent if possible)

Look to trade Anderson and Davies while they still have any semblance of value.

Put Freddy back in rotation and let him figure it out.

Wildcards: Jake Faria, Corbin Burnes, Jimmy Nelson, Adrian Houser, Brent Suter


Pretty sure they’re going to make the playoffs this year, and I like their chances next year. You seem to think Chase Anderson isn’t good. He’s been very good for us since we acquired him


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#33

Posted: August 13, 2019, 1:34 AM Post
Posts: 7944
thebruce44 said:
phnxcrew said:
Gio should be locked up now. The way that the market is, gio could be had for 2/10. Sorry, but Jordan shouldn’t be the quality we go for. Get gio as a backend, trade some surplus and sign a frontline starter to pair with woodruff. No matter who we buy the hitting stinks so let’s try some pitching for once.


Gio was more or less a league average pitcher in 2018. This year he has pitched a total of 50 innings and was released by one team. Guys like that don't typically have teams banging in their door for multi-year deals. I think he's definitely someone we could look to bring back for 2020 though.


Was Gio released? I thought he opted out?


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#34

Posted: August 13, 2019, 2:46 AM Post
Posts: 356
A Swing and A Drive said:
MrTPlush said:
A Swing and A Drive said:
Woodruff should be the only lock, IMO.

Brewers won't be making the playoffs anytime soon with this hodgepodge of mediocre talent in the starting rotation.

Let FA's Chacin, Gio, Pomeranz and Lyles walk. (sign a better Free Agent if possible)

Look to trade Anderson and Davies while they still have any semblance of value.

Put Freddy back in rotation and let him figure it out.

Wildcards: Jake Faria, Corbin Burnes, Jimmy Nelson, Adrian Houser, Brent Suter


Your plan only seems make the rotation worse...which I give it to ya, that's pretty hard to do.

What exactly is your plan to improve the rotation? Because all you have said is keep Woodruff, let the trash walk, then trade anyone with a hint of value, put Peralta back in (downgrade), and mention (mostly) a bunch of garbage as possibilities. Your wildcards can't possibly be filling 2/5 of the spots (as you mention Woodruff in, probably a FA signing, and Peralta in your rotation). Seems, at best, similar to this year...likely worse


1. Sign MadBum as Free Agent
2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy

2020 Rotation
1. Brandon Woodruff
2. Madison Bumgarner
3. Dylan Bundy
4. Freddy Peralta
5. Jake Faria

Swingman: Brent Suter

Rotation Depth:
Whoever we don't trade of Davies/Anderson/Burnes
Jimmy Nelson
Adrian Houser

Prospects on the way...
Ethan Small
Aaron Ashby
Drew Rasmussen
Trey Supak
Zack Brown
etc.

Replace Moustakas and/or Grandal with cheaper options so we can afford to sign MadBum or Ryu, perhaps


You were being facetious right? Madbum and Dylan Bundy!! The same Bundy who has an FIP of 4.70-4.38-5.17-5.06 the last 4 years. Both Davies and Anderson are much better options than Bundy. Burnes would be a wash as bad as he has been this year. Bumgarner is nowhere near the pitcher he once was and will command way too much money for the Brewers to be in the running.
The Brewers could do much better than M.B. throwing around the kind of money he'll get.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#35

Posted: August 13, 2019, 4:44 AM Post
Posts: 986
MrTPlush said:
If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.


There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#36

Posted: August 13, 2019, 5:58 AM Post
Posts: 2336
FVBrewerFan said:
They will have a hard time lowering the team salary next year. Braun and Cain still there, filling out the roster puts them right up to this year's level at least. Really doubt they pay big bucks for a SP. I know you used the word notable, maybe you dont mean a big contract.


With everything being equal(Attendance),if Stearns/Attanasio decide to go for it in 2020, instead of re-tool, payroll could be 9 mil higher(136) and still make the same profit. So based upon that figure, and the fact of wanting to leave room for potential additions at the deadline, I’m guessing payroll near this year’s payroll, so with Increases in salary(Yelich Cain) arbitration etc. that probably doesn’t leave room for a Higher salaried FA pitcher. Which based upon Stearns history isn’t his M/O anyhow. So agree with FV here.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#37

Posted: August 13, 2019, 7:28 AM Post
Posts: 11159
Lathund said:
MrTPlush said:
If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.


There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.


Free Agency wise, sure, I would venture to guess that is pretty true/accurate. Though, again, guys like Gio Gonzalez and Wade Miley could have been had for very little. Now I am not trying to say that in retrospect...but it was two veterans that could have easily solidified a spot in our rotation that pitched well for us last year. There were and will be trade options available and as much as our farm system lacks we can still make notable/major trades with it. Not to mention last offseason we could have used one or more of those "roll the dice pitchers" we ended up using as a major piece to a trade. Peralta and Burnes both probably had quite high trade value last winter.

I like Stearn's general thought of "his price" or not overpaying so to speak. At the same time this team is a ticking clock and it will likely go from contender to rebuilding faster than one would generally hope. We have some big time championship quality pieces right now (Yelich/Hiura/Hader). Probably best to not constantly try and piece together a rotation of prospects and over the hill veteran types.

Woodruff/Davies/Anderson is a good start. I think ideally you sign Lyles/Gonzalez (or some other vet) to fill the #5 spot and acquire a more top of the rotation arm to fill the other spot. I am not saying full fledged ace, but something a bit more flashy than the Davies/Anderson's of the world. I don't think that is particularly hard to pull off. I suppose Houser has time to make the Brewers comfortable with him getting one of the spots, but it is easier to acquire in the winter and have Houser/Suter/etc. fill in when injuries happen (or just poor play) midseason. One of our young guys will get plenty of starts and likely an extended look in 2020 whether they start in the rotation or not. Right now 3 of our original starters are on the DL, 1 is in the bullpen still sucking, and 1 sucked so bad he is in the minors now.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#38

Posted: August 13, 2019, 7:41 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
Lathund said:
MrTPlush said:
If he can’t go out and improve the rotation I guess it is pretty clear he is never bringing a championship here. I don’t blame him for rolling the dice on the internal options this year, but clearly it didn’t work and it isn’t like going into next year the internal options are anywhere near as promising.

He has so far stuck to getting a “good deal”. That is fine and dandy in general, but at some point you need to improve the team. Maybe this year wasn’t it, fine, but this winter you have to create a rotation you are confident in. Not roll the dice again...which was pretty risky after signing big one year additions on offense. Of course those offensive additional have been amazing and they look to be close to a total waste in the end.


There's a very good chance that the entire reason the two big one year additions were possible was that they rolled the dice on the starters, as in there not being the funds to really sign both Moose/Grandal and a starter or two. Spending money on starters would've meant rolling the dice on inferior options to Moose/Grandal in that scenario.


Free Agency wise, sure, I would venture to guess that is pretty true/accurate. Though, again, guys like Gio Gonzalez and Wade Miley could have been had for very little. Now I am not trying to say that in retrospect...but it was two veterans that could have easily solidified a spot in our rotation that pitched well for us last year. There were and will be trade options available and as much as our farm system lacks we can still make notable/major trades with it. Not to mention last offseason we could have used one or more of those "roll the dice pitchers" we ended up using as a major piece to a trade. Peralta and Burnes both probably had quite high trade value last winter.

I like Stearn's general thought of "his price" or not overpaying so to speak. At the same time this team is a ticking clock and it will likely go from contender to rebuilding faster than one would generally hope. We have some big time championship quality pieces right now (Yelich/Hiura/Hader). Probably best to not constantly try and piece together a rotation of prospects and over the hill veteran types.

Woodruff/Davies/Anderson is a good start. I think ideally you sign Lyles/Gonzalez (or some other vet) to fill the #5 spot and acquire a more top of the rotation arm to fill the other spot. I am not saying full fledged ace, but something a bit more flashy than the Davies/Anderson's of the world. I don't think that is particularly hard to pull off. I suppose Houser has time to make the Brewers comfortable with him getting one of the spots, but it is easier to acquire in the winter and have Houser/Suter/etc. fill in when injuries happen (or just poor play) midseason. One of our young guys will get plenty of starts and likely an extended look in 2020 whether they start in the rotation or not. Right now 3 of our original starters are on the DL, 1 is in the bullpen still sucking, and 1 sucked so bad he is in the minors now.



I guess my problem with this thinking is that if they signed Wade Miley and Gio, who was going to be out of the rotation? Chacin was a lock after the way he pitched last year. I think Burnes was a lock considering how he pitched out of the bullpen during the playoff run and his prospect status. Davies and Woody were going to be given every chance to start. I have never been high on Freddy, but they had Chase out of the bullpen in case one of the guys failed. Unfortunately, two of the young guys bombed and Chacin pitched worse than he has in a few years.

In the last three years, Stearns has thrown a hodgepodge of starting pitching at the wall. In 2017, Nelson and Anderson pitched like TOR pitchers. In 2018, it was Chacin and Miley. In 2019, it was Woody and Davies early on and Anderson lately. I don't think it's a bad philosophy. Its just everything else went wrong this year, including the bullpen blowing up. How many of the guys that were traded or signed in the last couple years have been good?


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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#39

Posted: August 13, 2019, 7:55 AM Post
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JosephC said:
A Swing and A Drive said:


2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy



Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.


I'm sure you would have made a similar statement when Orioles traded Jake Arietta to the Cubs at about the same age during a 7.23 ERA season with a 5 FIP.

Bundy has a much higher ceiling than any of the mediocre arms I proposed trading.

Sometimes you need to take a chance on talent, rather than cling to guys that are not difference makers, IMO.

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Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers Starters
#40

Posted: August 13, 2019, 8:01 AM Post
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A Swing and A Drive said:
JosephC said:
A Swing and A Drive said:


2. Trade a combination of Davies/Anderson/Burnes and prospects to Orioles for Dylan Bundy



Please find somebody with an ERA and FIP under 5 in their last 300 innings the next time you talk about trading away Davies or Anderson or Burnes (much less a combination of them plus prospects to boot).

I was really high on Dylan Bundy two years ago but have come around to the idea that the guy just isn't very good. Late bloomer at 27? Definitely could happen. But I'm not trading away anything of significant value in order to find out.


I'm sure you would have made a similar statement when Orioles traded Jake Arietta to the Cubs at about the same age during a 7.23 ERA season with a 5 FIP.

Bundy has a much higher ceiling than any of the mediocre arms I proposed trading.

Sometimes you need to take a chance on talent, rather than cling to guys that are not difference makers, IMO.

Does Bundy have that much higher ceiling than Burnes? I mean we are just talking about potential not if it will actually happen so if we are focusing on that I think Burnes is right up there. Bundy has only had one year that was even kind of ok.


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