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Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns

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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#61

Posted: September 08, 2019, 9:10 PM Post
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Location: Chicago
Anybody who has lost confidence in the GM most likely has unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Stearns knew the Brewers will never signed an elite SP when those players are getting $25+ million dollars a year. He also knew they can’t consistently compete with a rotation of mid-tier free agents and band aids. So he took a shot trying to break in 3 promising home grown starting pitchers. It was the correct move for the long run, but Burnes and Peralta didn’t get the job done.

After getting next to nothing offensively at second and catcher last year, he dumped 28+ million dollars into Moustakas and Grandal. Those two players have earned every cent of their contracts.

However, the decision to dump so much payroll into C and 2B, meant the GM didn’t have much room to maneuver with bringing in bullpen arms settling for low cost additions: Claudio and Wahl. Also useful players such as Lyles and Miley moves on because the money was spent elsewhere. Again at the time these moves looked good.

Then Knebel tore his UCL, Wahl tore his ACL and Jeffress suffered the first of a multiple injuries. Nobody could predict three players the team was counting on to pitch innings for them going down with significant injuries.

After Burnes and Peralta flamed out every member of the rotation also went to the DL at some point with injuries: Woodruff, Gonzalez, Anderson, Davies. With the exception of Houser the 8th, 9th 10th best starters in the organization simply weren’t good players . Then again no team in MLB is ten deep in starters.

The only thing you can criticize Stearns for in 2019 is being too patient with his players. I can understand the optioning of Hiura in an attempt to finally get Shaw going at the plate. But they gave Nelson a shot after mediocre post-op minor league numbers. They gave Aguilar a couple hundred at bats to try to find his form. It’s actually somewhat shrewd for a small market team with limited payroll to be extremely patient with the talent before pulling the plug on someone.

It’s a fair criticism that Stearns hasn’t gotten more out of his drafts especially with a top 5 pick under his belt. But that isn’t a new criticism or reason to lose confidence in September of 2019.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#62

Posted: September 08, 2019, 9:19 PM Post
Posts: 896
I've been a Brewers fan for 43 years and I've stuck with them through a few good years, but mainly lean times. If they fired Stearns I think I would quit them for good.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#63

Posted: September 08, 2019, 9:55 PM Post
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Stearns has only had four drafts, so still kind of early to tell one way or another how he has done.

Sure, Ray is looking like a bad pick at #5 in 2016, but we still got Burnes, Feliciano, Z Brown, Erceg & Henry for guys that still have varying degrees of chances at being possible future contributors.

Hiura has already paid dividends from 2017 & you've still got plenty of interesting guys in Lutz, Francis, Bettinger, Lazar, Ward & File.

For 2018 Turang had a solid first season all around then there's Ashby, Rasmussen & Andrews who have already had some success plus HS guys like Bello & Gray with plenty of promise.

Obviously way too early to pass judgement on 2019, but Small & Kelly definitely showed out in their small samples.

It also seems like we've made strides in the international market since Stearns took over, but of course that will take even longer to maybe bear any fruit.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#64

Posted: September 08, 2019, 10:04 PM Post
Posts: 4517
Jopal78! said:
Anybody who has lost confidence in the GM most likely has unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Stearns knew the Brewers will never signed an elite SP when those players are getting $25+ million dollars a year. He also knew they can’t consistently compete with a rotation of mid-tier free agents and band aids. So he took a shot trying to break in 3 promising home grown starting pitchers. It was the correct move for the long run, but Burnes and Peralta didn’t get the job done.

After getting next to nothing offensively at second and catcher last year, he dumped 28+ million dollars into Moustakas and Grandal. Those two players have earned every cent of their contracts.

However, the decision to dump so much payroll into C and 2B, meant the GM didn’t have much room to maneuver with bringing in bullpen arms settling for low cost additions: Claudio and Wahl. Also useful players such as Lyles and Miley moves on because the money was spent elsewhere. Again at the time these moves looked good.

Then Knebel tore his UCL, Wahl tore his ACL and Jeffress suffered the first of a multiple injuries. Nobody could predict three players the team was counting on to pitch innings for them going down with significant injuries.

After Burnes and Peralta flamed out every member of the rotation also went to the DL at some point with injuries: Woodruff, Gonzalez, Anderson, Davies. With the exception of Houser the 8th, 9th 10th best starters in the organization simply weren’t good players . Then again no team in MLB is ten deep in starters.

The only thing you can criticize Stearns for in 2019 is being too patient with his players. I can understand the optioning of Hiura in an attempt to finally get Shaw going at the plate. But they gave Nelson a shot after mediocre post-op minor league numbers. They gave Aguilar a couple hundred at bats to try to find his form. It’s actually somewhat shrewd for a small market team with limited payroll to be extremely patient with the talent before pulling the plug on someone.

It’s a fair criticism that Stearns hasn’t gotten more out of his drafts especially with a top 5 pick under his belt. But that isn’t a new criticism or reason to lose confidence in September of 2019.


I'll go with a +1 here.

Honestly, though, I would have optioned Nelson for the whole season. He needed much more time than he was given in the minors. He may never be the TOR guy the Crew thought they had finally developed in 2017 - but I think he could be a closer.

Similarly, they needed to just roll with Hiura, and eat the option on Shaw. Can't fault them on Aguilar, but that, too, cost the Crew.

I don't see the logic in getting Feritas, and still don't. Same goes for Tyler Austin. Keeping Saladino did not make sense. One or more of those moves pushed out Troy Stokes, who arguably had more upside, and could have enabled the Crew to flip Ben Gamel for something this offseason.

Really, what caught the Crew in 2019 was injuries to key relievers (Knebel, Jeffress), and the depth got knocked out in the rotation (Burnes in particular). Nobody could have predicted that. Perhaps the only thing you can blame Stearns for is maybe not bringing back Gio in the offseason. I imagine that probably would have been worth a game or two in the scheme of things.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#65

Posted: September 08, 2019, 10:05 PM Post
Posts: 31
In my life as a Brewer Fan, only Harry Dalton (in his early years before the Bud Selig miasma of financial
suckitude drained Harry's blood of honest competitiveness) gave me the hope of a Brewers World Series win. Jim Baumer, Sal Bando, Dean Taylor, and Doug Melvin never instilled honest hope for a World Series win. Stearns is smarter and more competitive than all of the others put together, and Attanasio seems more than willing to put money in for legitimate WS runs. I think most of the people carping about Stearns are younglings who don't realize just how far from a World Series win the Brewers have been in their entire existence. If Rollie Fingers had been healthy for the 82 Series, the Brewers would have won IMHO. https://www.mlb.com/news/cecil-cooper-s ... -108083690


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#66

Posted: September 09, 2019, 4:26 AM Post
Posts: 3883
crossface21 said:
Everyone assumes that if a guy is offered a contract they will just come here. It takes 2 to tango. We'll never know a lot of the guys that Sterns offers contracts to and what those offers are for and if a guy just wasn't interested in coming here or not. And Sterns can't necessarily get in a bidding war with a lot of teams, they don't have the payroll resources.

In addition, I think with the way the Brewers run their pitching staff, you don't need absolute studs as starters. Would it be nice? Heck yeah it would. But those guys cost money-lots n' lots of money. If the Brewers can get 3-4 guys that are reliable for 5-6 innings and then spend money on good, quality bullpen arms-which are vastly more inexpensive-I'm fine with that. Put the money in the offense with that model.

With Woody, Burnes, and Peralta, all you needed was 1 guy to be good and the others to be average and this team is winning the division right now. Woody is good. Unfortunately, Burnes and Peralta weren't even average, they weren't even awful-they were god awful.

Jeffress, Burnes, Peralta, not doing well this year hurt. But as many would probably agree, the injury to Knebel crushed that bullpen. You can't blame Sterns for that. "He should have had more depth." There are few bullpen arms out there like Knebel when he's going good.



I keep seeing this, I don't think they do that by design as much as as a result of having Wade Miley and Gio Gonzalez as your top 2 pitchers. If Woodruff and Burnes would have been as good as you could have reasonably hoped...which Woody was, but Burnes was not, then they wouldn't have to operate in that fashion. The Brewers did an amazing job with what they had last year, but that's not how you build a team. They need to put all resources into developing and acquiring good starting pitching. I think they have plenty of power arms and they've got all the arms they need to have a dominant pen in their system right now for the most part.

You are correct, they obviously don't have the financial resources to compete for player(s). But if they believe one is good enough, they can at least try to sign him. I believe there is one pitcher in this FA pitching class worthy of a big contract from the Brewers and the risk. We'll have to see how aggressive they are in this loaded FA pitching class.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#67

Posted: September 09, 2019, 4:35 AM Post
Posts: 3883
Jopal78! said:
Anybody who has lost confidence in the GM most likely has unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Stearns knew the Brewers will never signed an elite SP when those players are getting $25+ million dollars a year. He also knew they can’t consistently compete with a rotation of mid-tier free agents and band aids. So he took a shot trying to break in 3 promising home grown starting pitchers. It was the correct move for the long run, but Burnes and Peralta didn’t get the job done.

After getting next to nothing offensively at second and catcher last year, he dumped 28+ million dollars into Moustakas and Grandal. Those two players have earned every cent of their contracts.

However, the decision to dump so much payroll into C and 2B, meant the GM didn’t have much room to maneuver with bringing in bullpen arms settling for low cost additions: Claudio and Wahl. Also useful players such as Lyles and Miley moves on because the money was spent elsewhere. Again at the time these moves looked good.

Then Knebel tore his UCL, Wahl tore his ACL and Jeffress suffered the first of a multiple injuries. Nobody could predict three players the team was counting on to pitch innings for them going down with significant injuries.

After Burnes and Peralta flamed out every member of the rotation also went to the DL at some point with injuries: Woodruff, Gonzalez, Anderson, Davies. With the exception of Houser the 8th, 9th 10th best starters in the organization simply weren’t good players . Then again no team in MLB is ten deep in starters.

The only thing you can criticize Stearns for in 2019 is being too patient with his players. I can understand the optioning of Hiura in an attempt to finally get Shaw going at the plate. But they gave Nelson a shot after mediocre post-op minor league numbers. They gave Aguilar a couple hundred at bats to try to find his form. It’s actually somewhat shrewd for a small market team with limited payroll to be extremely patient with the talent before pulling the plug on someone.

It’s a fair criticism that Stearns hasn’t gotten more out of his drafts especially with a top 5 pick under his belt. But that isn’t a new criticism or reason to lose confidence in September of 2019.


I would also argue that he hasn't had good drafts. He's selected some very promising players, Drew Rassmusen, Corbin Burnes, Hiura, Ashby, Turang, Grisham and there are a LOT more young players. We basically had a monopoly on Venezuelan players this year.


The biggest "problem" Stearns had was he turned the team around too quickly and didn't have the benefit of multiple early picks. He didn't get to pick a Bergman, Springer, Correa in the top 5 of the draft.

Just about everything that could go wrong this year did...and the Brewers find themselves 2 games out on Sept. 8th.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#68

Posted: September 09, 2019, 8:51 AM Post
Posts: 4517
HiAndTight said:
The biggest "problem" Stearns had was he turned the team around too quickly and didn't have the benefit of multiple early picks. He didn't get to pick a Bergman, Springer, Correa in the top 5 of the draft.

Just about everything that could go wrong this year did...and the Brewers find themselves 2 games out on Sept. 8th.


This is something we missed in all the excitement of 2017. It will have an effect going forward.

That said, I look at later picks like Weston Wilson, Cam Roegner, Gabriel Garcia, Dylan File, Bowden Francis, Max Lazar, Clayton Andrews, Scott Sunitsch, and David Fry, and I feel they could be very good players.

The real key will be whether Stearns can make a number of "Adam Lind" type trades that bring in good talent down the road.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#69

Posted: September 09, 2019, 10:41 AM Post
Posts: 6961
Stearns doesn't run the drafts anymore then Melvin did.........


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#70

Posted: September 09, 2019, 10:55 AM Post
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markedman5 said:
Stearns doesn't run the drafts anymore then Melvin did.........


He may not run them, but that's by his choice. He still bears the responsibility for them. He's the President of Baseball Operations, so he's accountable for the roster, the draft, the farm system, contracts, coaches...everything.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#71

Posted: September 09, 2019, 12:31 PM Post
Posts: 2891
baybeachbum1 said:
In my life as a Brewer Fan, only Harry Dalton (in his early years before the Bud Selig miasma of financial
suckitude drained Harry's blood of honest competitiveness) gave me the hope of a Brewers World Series win. Jim Baumer, Sal Bando, Dean Taylor, and Doug Melvin never instilled honest hope for a World Series win. Stearns is smarter and more competitive than all of the others put together, and Attanasio seems more than willing to put money in for legitimate WS runs. I think most of the people carping about Stearns are younglings who don't realize just how far from a World Series win the Brewers have been in their entire existence. If Rollie Fingers had been healthy for the 82 Series, the Brewers would have won IMHO. https://www.mlb.com/news/cecil-cooper-s ... -108083690


Agree and disagree.
I’ve also been a fan of the crew since inception, and agree with the 82 team winning the series with a healthy fingers, zero doubt that would have happened. And agree Dalton was a constrammoth GM. But disagree with your “miasma of financial sucktitude”description for the years after 82 with Selig. For being one of the LEAST Wealthy owners, he consistently spent money on payroll up until the late 80’s, early 90’s, when the revenue streams really started to separate teams into large markets vs Small markets. He loved the brewers, like a father loves his son, but gave up his baby in 92, to save the brewers and other small markets from the greedy large market teams, who didn’t want the MKE’s, Twins Royals Reds etc. to even be around as teams anymore. Steinbrenner Didn’t want revenue sharing, none of the large markets did. But somehow he sold them on revenue sharing and saved baseball in the small market cities. Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#72

Posted: September 09, 2019, 1:21 PM Post
Posts: 3106
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility, pitching, and farm system.

CC and DJ made him look better than he is.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#73

Posted: September 09, 2019, 2:00 PM Post
Posts: 8454
Boomer5 said:
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility


I agree, he really ruined the Celtics.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#74

Posted: September 09, 2019, 2:40 PM Post
Posts: 4436
Boomer5 said:
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility, pitching, and farm system.

CC and DJ made him look better than he is.


Sounds like the exact same roster he inherited a few seasons ago. He turned that into an NLCS home game 7 in three years' tenure compared to one destined to win between 70-80 games for the next 3-5 seasons, and has fielded a roster competing for the postseason in September for the past 3 consecutive seasons - something no GM has done here in Milwaukee. Many of his trades have brought in MLB veteran talent at the expense of trading away little in terms of overvalued prospects who may actually become decent everyday MLB players.

But sure, he's just a guy.

Derek Johnson was hired by Stearns, so if he truly is a pitching savant that makes any pitching staff a full earned run/9 innings better it was Stearns who recognized that.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#75

Posted: September 09, 2019, 2:56 PM Post
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Posts: 308
I've been a Brewers fan since 1978 and I haven't lost any confidence in Stearns. After 2011, I had serious doubts that I would ever see the Brewers in a World Series again in my lifetime. I've admired the quick turnaround to the parent franchise during his tenure and his ability to pick up the pieces that we needed at the deadline in 2018. We had the deepest forty man roster in my memory and it showed during the stretch run that carried the team to within a game of the world series.

His job was tougher in 2019. Based on the injuries and poor performance prior to the deadline, the guys that didn't make our playoff roster in 2018 were pitching the bulk of our innings. Stearns was faced with making deadline moves that allowed Counsell to patch together a four man pitching rotation and added some fringe talent to the bullpen. I'm amazed that we're still in contention for the second wild card spot as we're penciling utility guys into our infield each night as we wait for the regulars to get healthy. I think Counsell does his best work with a forty man roster.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#76

Posted: September 09, 2019, 5:10 PM Post
Posts: 6961
JimH5 said:
markedman5 said:
Stearns doesn't run the drafts anymore then Melvin did.........


He may not run them, but that's by his choice. He still bears the responsibility for them. He's the President of Baseball Operations, so he's accountable for the roster, the draft, the farm system, contracts, coaches...everything.


Of course he is responsible for everything......but no GM runs the draft.........its funny when Melvin was here Jack Z got all the credit when we had good drafts.......when he left Seid got the blame for the bad drafts.....now we are blaming Stearns instead of the scouting director.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#77

Posted: September 09, 2019, 5:52 PM Post
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Posts: 6099
Jopal78! said:
Then Knebel tore his UCL, Wahl tore his ACL and Jeffress suffered the first of a multiple injuries. Nobody could predict three players the team was counting on to pitch innings for them going down with significant injuries.

After Burnes and Peralta flamed out every member of the rotation also went to the DL at some point with injuries: Woodruff, Gonzalez, Anderson, Davies. With the exception of Houser the 8th, 9th 10th best starters in the organization simply weren’t good players . Then again no team in MLB is ten deep in starters.

If the Cubs had this many injuries to their pitching staff they would be nowhere near a playoff spot. The Cubs only needed to have nine starts covered by pitchers outside of their opening day rotation. If they had to go 8-9 deep they would be in serious trouble because they had no depth. They've been incredibly lucky.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#78

Posted: September 09, 2019, 6:06 PM Post
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Posts: 8099
Boomer5 said:
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility, pitching, and farm system.

CC and DJ made him look better than he is.


I think the opposite is true, honestly. I think Counsell, like most managers, is an interchangable cog.

I like Craig, I think he does what you can best hope for in a manager, which is to implement the philosophy of the organization strategically. But beyond that, I'd think he could be replaced without much of an effect on the results.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#79

Posted: September 09, 2019, 6:30 PM Post
Posts: 104
[quote="Brew crew 92”]Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.[/quote]

Tap ... the ... brakes.

Selig did more good than bad in his tenure, and for being so driven to bring baseball back to Milwaukee? For that alone, every Brewer fan owes him a debt of gratitude.

But Commish Selig was not good for the Brewers. The rot from 1993 on is his responsibility.

From 1993 on, a good argument can be made that the Brewers were made to be a bargain basement operation on purpose to make us one of the poster teams for a salary cap. We were a bargaining chip.

He and his accolytes stuck with Sal Bando as GM way too long.

He was no different than any other owner in leveraging Miller Park vs. relocation.

A lot of fans bought into the financial unfairness he championed in the 90s, but we know now baseball success is really about having a commitment to being competitive (not a spender, but not a chintzer) who hires smart people. Small market teams can and do win, they just don’t have the flexibility to eat mistakes.

And in the end? The best thing Selig did besides bringing the Brewers here in the first place was whom he sold to. He left the Brewers in great hands. But he probably did so at least a decade later than he should have.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#80

Posted: September 09, 2019, 6:54 PM Post
Posts: 2891
Bob Skube Snacks said:
[quote="Brew crew 92”]Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.[/quote]

Tap ... the ... brakes.

Selig did more good than bad in his tenure, and for being so driven to bring baseball back to Milwaukee? For that alone, every Brewer fan owes him a debt of gratitude.

But Commish Selig was not good for the Brewers. The rot from 1993 on is his responsibility.

From 1993 on, a good argument can be made that the Brewers were made to be a bargain basement operation on purpose to make us one of the poster teams for a salary cap. We were a bargaining chip.

He and his accolytes stuck with Sal Bando as GM way too long.

He was no different than any other owner in leveraging Miller Park vs. relocation.

A lot of fans bought into the financial unfairness he championed in the 90s, but we know now baseball success is really about having a commitment to being competitive (not a spender, but not a chintzer) who hires smart people. Small market teams can and do win, they just don’t have the flexibility to eat mistakes.

And in the end? The best thing Selig did besides bringing the Brewers here in the first place was whom he sold to. He left the Brewers in great hands. But he probably did so at least a decade later than he should have.[/quote][/quote]



Nice try, on the rot comment, and nice try on Selig being bad for the brewers. Even if your right with the team tanking on purpose, which your not, the team wasn’t owned by Bud once he became commissioner. His daughter owned the team, and despite what some think he left her alone to run the team and was above board because he had to be to satisfy the other owners. You sound like a big market fan. Big market fans are like the aristocrats just before the French Revolution.

I stand by my comments regarding Selig and his saving all the small market teams that the large markets wanted rid of.


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