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Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns

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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#81

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:13 PM Post
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Posts: 313
Bob Skube Snacks said:
[quote="Brew crew 92”]Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.[/quote]

Tap ... the ... brakes.

Selig did more good than bad in his tenure, and for being so driven to bring baseball back to Milwaukee? For that alone, every Brewer fan owes him a debt of gratitude.

But Commish Selig was not good for the Brewers. The rot from 1993 on is his responsibility.

From 1993 on, a good argument can be made that the Brewers were made to be a bargain basement operation on purpose to make us one of the poster teams for a salary cap. We were a bargaining chip.

He and his accolytes stuck with Sal Bando as GM way too long.

He was no different than any other owner in leveraging Miller Park vs. relocation.

A lot of fans bought into the financial unfairness he championed in the 90s, but we know now baseball success is really about having a commitment to being competitive (not a spender, but not a chintzer) who hires smart people. Small market teams can and do win, they just don’t have the flexibility to eat mistakes.

And in the end? The best thing Selig did besides bringing the Brewers here in the first place was whom he sold to. He left the Brewers in great hands. But he probably did so at least a decade later than he should have.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]


The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what the value was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#82

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:24 PM Post
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Posts: 2417
TigerUppercut said:
The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what the value was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.


Sounds kinda like a used car salesman, but on steroids.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#83

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:29 PM Post
Posts: 2891
TigerUppercut said:
Bob Skube Snacks said:
[quote="Brew crew 92”]Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.[/quote]

Tap ... the ... brakes.

Selig did more good than bad in his tenure, and for being so driven to bring baseball back to Milwaukee? For that alone, every Brewer fan owes him a debt of gratitude.

But Commish Selig was not good for the Brewers. The rot from 1993 on is his responsibility.

From 1993 on, a good argument can be made that the Brewers were made to be a bargain basement operation on purpose to make us one of the poster teams for a salary cap. We were a bargaining chip.

He and his accolytes stuck with Sal Bando as GM way too long.

He was no different than any other owner in leveraging Miller Park vs. relocation.

A lot of fans bought into the financial unfairness he championed in the 90s, but we know now baseball success is really about having a commitment to being competitive (not a spender, but not a chintzer) who hires smart people. Small market teams can and do win, they just don’t have the flexibility to eat mistakes.

And in the end? The best thing Selig did besides bringing the Brewers here in the first place was whom he sold to. He left the Brewers in great hands. But he probably did so at least a decade later than he should have.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what it was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.[/quote]


Wendy Selig-Prieb was a terrible owner, Bud Selig was not. Pissed off? Really? Why on earth would or should any brewer fan be pissed off? Miller Park? Really? No park no team. That’s fair. That revenue stream for the brewers was obviously needed for the team to remain here. Oh, and 3 or 4 times it went up to 223M. Now it’s worth 2,225,000,000 thanks to Bud.

Let’s try again. He gave us a team-then he saved the team. And now we’re bad mouthing him. Wow, talk about ungrateful.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#84

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:35 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 313
Brew crew 92 said:
TigerUppercut said:
Bob Skube Snacks said:
[quote="Brew crew 92”]Point being, Selig should be above reproach in MKE, not dished by anyone, least of all a brewer fan. I know most know this already, but for those that didn’t, there you have it, in a nutshell.[/quote]

Tap ... the ... brakes.

Selig did more good than bad in his tenure, and for being so driven to bring baseball back to Milwaukee? For that alone, every Brewer fan owes him a debt of gratitude.

But Commish Selig was not good for the Brewers. The rot from 1993 on is his responsibility.

From 1993 on, a good argument can be made that the Brewers were made to be a bargain basement operation on purpose to make us one of the poster teams for a salary cap. We were a bargaining chip.

He and his accolytes stuck with Sal Bando as GM way too long.

He was no different than any other owner in leveraging Miller Park vs. relocation.

A lot of fans bought into the financial unfairness he championed in the 90s, but we know now baseball success is really about having a commitment to being competitive (not a spender, but not a chintzer) who hires smart people. Small market teams can and do win, they just don’t have the flexibility to eat mistakes.

And in the end? The best thing Selig did besides bringing the Brewers here in the first place was whom he sold to. He left the Brewers in great hands. But he probably did so at least a decade later than he should have.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what it was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Wendy Selig-Prieb was a terrible owner, Bud Selig was not. Pissed off? Really? Why on earth would or should any brewer fan be pissed off? Miller Park? Really? No park no team. That’s fair. That revenue stream for the brewers was obviously needed for the team to remain here. Oh, and 3 or 4 times it went up to 223M. Now it’s worth 2,225,000,000 thanks to Bud.

Let’s try again. He gave us a team-then he saved the team. And now we’re bad mouthing him. Wow, talk about ungrateful.[/quote]


He capitalized on the stadium for his own profit in the name of keeping baseball in Milwaukee. Tommy Thompson shredded him a few months back over it when the book came out and a number of politicians despise the guy to this day. Ever seen the movie "There Will Be Blood?" The storylines appear pretty much the same.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#85

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:35 PM Post
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Posts: 13191
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Brew crew 92 said:
Let’s try again. He gave us a team-then he saved the team. And now we’re bad mouthing him. Wow, talk about ungrateful.


Interesting from you who bad-mouthed our current owner many times on these same message boards. You know, the winningest owner we have ever had. But yeah, please keep trying to lecture others on here.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#86

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:36 PM Post
Posts: 2891
sveumrules said:
TigerUppercut said:
The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what the value was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.


Sounds kinda like a used car salesman, but on steroids.


Good one!


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#87

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:36 PM Post
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Posts: 8546
I foresee this conversation leading to virtual fisticuffs.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#88

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:45 PM Post
Posts: 2891
Brew4U said:
Brew crew 92 said:
Let’s try again. He gave us a team-then he saved the team. And now we’re bad mouthing him. Wow, talk about ungrateful.


Interesting from you who bad-mouthed our current owner many times on these same message boards. You know, the winningest owner we have ever had. But yeah, please keep trying to lecture others on here.


Never bad mouthed him. But also didn’t put him on mt. Rushmore like some fans around here.

You shouldn’t put words in my mouth. I never once said he was a bad owner. Not once. But you know what:

Even Mark A knows what Selig has done for the city of MKE, and for the health of his bank account.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#89

Posted: September 09, 2019, 7:59 PM Post
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Posts: 2448
We didn't build Miller Park for Bud Selig, we built it for ourselves to see major league baseball. The same way that taxpayers did in building County Stadium. The team would have been sold for a similar price and moved to a different city had we not built the park.


Selig got wealthy on the sale of the franchise the same way that the Attanasios will and every other owner has. There was nothing crooked about the Selig sale.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#90

Posted: September 09, 2019, 9:03 PM Post
Posts: 4517
brewers4eric said:
I've been a Brewers fan since 1978 and I haven't lost any confidence in Stearns. After 2011, I had serious doubts that I would ever see the Brewers in a World Series again in my lifetime. I've admired the quick turnaround to the parent franchise during his tenure and his ability to pick up the pieces that we needed at the deadline in 2018. We had the deepest forty man roster in my memory and it showed during the stretch run that carried the team to within a game of the world series.

His job was tougher in 2019. Based on the injuries and poor performance prior to the deadline, the guys that didn't make our playoff roster in 2018 were pitching the bulk of our innings. Stearns was faced with making deadline moves that allowed Counsell to patch together a four man pitching rotation and added some fringe talent to the bullpen. I'm amazed that we're still in contention for the second wild card spot as we're penciling utility guys into our infield each night as we wait for the regulars to get healthy. I think Counsell does his best work with a forty man roster.


This.

If the plan had worked, no flameouts by Burnes/Peralta, no extended slumps for Shaw/Aguilar, then Stearns wouldhave credit for building a division winner.

All I want is to get to the playoffs - once there, anything can happen.

I want a World Series title. I don't care if the Crew starts their run as a wild card, I just want the title.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#91

Posted: September 09, 2019, 10:03 PM Post
Posts: 2673
reillymcshane said:
I can't blame Stearns for Shaw not hitting. Or Cain for getting dinged up by injuries (okay, maybe a little, as those things happen to guys who as they get older), or Arcia not getting any better. Or Chacin stinking it up. Or Jeffries imploding. Or Knebel having surgery. Or Gio getting hurt. Or Woodruff getting hurt. Or Aguilar for not hitting. Or for Taylor Williams and Jacob Barnes not getting any better (and actually getting worse).

I also don't blame him for rolling with his young starters - Peralta, Woodruff and Burnes. Was it risky? Yes, but I liked all three players and felt it was worth the risk.

I don't blame Stearns when we don't sign more free agents. He has a budget. Do I want that budget to be bigger? Yes. But I can't blame him for things he has no control over.

I don't blame him for not overpaying at the deadline (or whenever) by trading for higher profile players. This team was not good enough to 'go for it'. It would have only depleted our already depleted minor league system.

I CAN blame Stearns for not keeping Miley or Gio. I think it was a mistake to not bring one of them back from the start (or some other starter). At least he brought back Gio when he had the chance.

I can also blame Stearns for Matt Albers. We've stuck with him too long.

I can also blame Stearns for creating a bit of an awkward roster. Too many 1B/3B guys. Not a quality SS backup for much of the season.

I can give him the thumbs up for the Moustakas and Grandal signings.

I think we had solid depth on this team - but our pitching really showed us why the old 'you can never have enough pitching' saying is so true.

I will be interested to see where we go this offseason. We have some really good players - but we also have a lot of holes in the roster.

To me, this post says it best -- or says what's in my head the best -- of everything in the 4+ pages of this thread.

No GM is perfect. For where this franchise is in its current trajectory, and for his cumulative track record since arriving, I'll take the net of who Stearns is and what he's done over most any other GM out there.

It's funny how, outside of Tampa & probably Oakland, most any other of the most "smart" or "successful" GMs seems to work in one of the largest markets and/or has a payroll size that dwarfs the Brewers'.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#92

Posted: September 09, 2019, 10:14 PM Post
Posts: 3106
FVBrewerFan said:
Boomer5 said:
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility


I agree, he really ruined the Celtics.


Lol. I swear I typed Stearns.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#93

Posted: September 09, 2019, 10:18 PM Post
Posts: 3106
PeaveyFury said:
Boomer5 said:
Stevens is just a guy. The Yelich trade was brilliant and obviously picking Hiura was excellent.

Other than that, he has built an old, clumsy roster that has little flexibility, pitching, and farm system.

CC and DJ made him look better than he is.


I think the opposite is true, honestly. I think Counsell, like most managers, is an interchangable cog.

I like Craig, I think he does what you can best hope for in a manager, which is to implement the philosophy of the organization strategically. But beyond that, I'd think he could be replaced without much of an effect on the results.


Agree to disagree. Managers and coaches matter.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#94

Posted: September 10, 2019, 7:45 AM Post
Posts: 11435
TigerUppercut said:
The thing that amazes me that nobody talks about and/or is pissed off about is that for all that he did to keep baseball here in MKE, after getting taxpayers to build Miller Park, the Selig's ultimately sold the team shortly thereafter to the tune of $223M. That was what I recall being a 4X increase over what the value was 2 or 3 years before MP opened it's doors. Don't get me wrong, they were terrible owners and I'm happy they sold but it always felt like a con job to me.


Didn't $90mil get put in by private funds? That quickly slashes your 4x figure to 2x and more like a $50mil up to the value (just a real rough guess). Certainly not that crazy anymore. He got Miller Park built while he owned the team to ensure it wouldn't go anywhere. I am sure at the time he knew he was going to sell it in the fairly short term future and made the move to get the stadium built.

Also I don't think stadiums really have any dramatic effect on the value of big time pro sports teams. Since most teams don't even own the stadium I am not sure how much would even go into an evaluation anyway. Consider the fact if the Brewers left Milwaukee Miller Park has zero actual value, it is just a concrete dump almost entirely useless. The value would be in the land in all honesty and where it currently sits is not very valuable. So take 30% of that land value (Brewers stake in MP) and that is what Miller Park adds to value of the franchise.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#95

Posted: September 10, 2019, 8:59 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5097
Brew crew 92 said:
Never bad mouthed him. But also didn’t put him on mt. Rushmore like some fans around here.


Your "Fake News" schitck is getting old. Congratulations on being the 2nd person in my 15 years here that I'm putting on ignore.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38025&p=1237668&hilit=Attanasio#p1237644

Brew crew 92 said:
Imo, your gobbledygooking the fact that, Attanasio even said himself, that they were investing profits into the Carolina, concessions, Maryvale etc.

Where’s the accountability?

Doesn’t Attanasio NEED TO PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS?

I’ve been accused of calling Attanasio PT Barnum, even though I’m not the poster that said that, but you know what, i’m getting to the point of agreement in that description of his salesmanship.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38653&p=1229323&hilit=Attanasio#p1229323
Brew crew 92 said:
Stearns can only do so much on the CHEAP. Not gonna go any further with that, no need to. We ALL know this already, but we still pretend we have a chance to win it, yeah sure < 1%. Zero for 49 and counting, but who’s counting. 0 for 15 for Attanasio but who’s counting. Local beat writers “astonished” at a 127 mil payroll, meanwhile the Cincinnati reds, a team I would argue not as equipped as us to win, SPENDS MORE ON THEIR PAYROLL THIS YEAR THAN US. 76-86 million GROSS profit, yes GROSS, not NET, since we’ll never know the net but can confidently say another extremely healthy profit for Attanasio & investors. Attanasio has said in the past (can’t remember when, so don’t ask, but someone out there besides me can confirm, because it was said) that he would bankroll profits to increase payroll WHEN NEEDED.

WELL ITS NEEDED!!!!

Give Stearns the $ to buy a pen arm or 2 so Burnes can pitch where and how he belongs.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&p=1249474&hilit=66+million#p1249474
Brew crew 92 said:
The 66 gross profit is as factual as one can get with guarded books, comes from FORBES. Playoff revenue is estimated 10-20 million. If it’s 10 million that’s a 76 million gross profit which is top 10 in all of baseball. Actually the 66 is top 10 in baseball.

But whatever, I’m also sick of saying it.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&p=1249468&hilit=66+million#p1249468
Brew crew 92 said:
66 million gross profit. Then add playoff revenue ON TOP OF THAT > another 10-20 million > now it’s not quite as impressive is it?


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&hilit=66+million&start=20#p1249431
Brew crew 92 said:
Actually, if I could fire the owner, and replace him with an owner from Wisconsin that is a real life long brewer fan, that doesn’t have to answer to investors yearly, to make a predetermined profit each and every year, no matter the circumstances, instead of a year or 2 forgoing said yearly profit, with 125 million ONE YEAR increase in franchise value being enough “profit” for 1 year with team having gone 50 years titleless already. But of course that dream is not reality, so imo, we need an architect that is massively forward thinking, the opposite of risk averse(example > Dick Williams). Thought coming into this year we had that GM, now I’m not so sure.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#96

Posted: September 10, 2019, 9:31 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 419
Location: Chicago
It's all water under the bridge at this point. Miller Park with countless luxury suites generates far more revenue for the owner than was possible at County Stadium. While it is true that some of that increased revenue flows into payroll, a substantial portion of that increased revenue flowed into Selig's pocket as well. So I don't really buy the narrative he's some altruistic fella obsessed with pro baseball being in Milwaukee.

I will give him credit that his strong arm tactics as Commissioner played a role in new stadiums being built for teams: TEX, CLE, COL, AZ, SEA, SF, HOU, DET, PIT, MIL, CIN, PHI, SD, StL, WAS, NY AL, NY NL, MIN and MIA, mostly with tax payer funding.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#97

Posted: September 10, 2019, 9:52 AM Post
Posts: 4565
Location: Madison, WI
Think of this way, if he sold before the stadium the next owner would have benefited from the bump in value instead of him. Better him than Attanasio or whatever billionaire would've bought IMO. And that's assuming it even happens if the team was sold before the stadium was done. If he sells without stadium done the team could easily be gone, but let's just assume it was in the contract they couldn't move, similar to what happened with the Bucks, the next owner would have gotten the value bump. So, again better Bud than anyone else.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#98

Posted: September 10, 2019, 11:48 AM Post
Posts: 11435
There is not a strong correlation between a new stadium and franchise value. I did a bit of research and it looks like it may be worth a 10% or so increase to a team valuation on top of whatever the normal increase for that year is. Money wise that wasn't a ton back when Miller Park was built. The real money maker was the "new stadium" excitement. That was worth waaaay more than the paltry increase to team value. Coincidently he sold the team after 4 years or so...probably when the new stadium excitement revenue started to die off.

I didn't dig too deep because it was a hard task as is and unless you want to take Forbes like it is everything that matters you can't really get a great gauge on it. I guess what I am trying to say is the franchise did not increase 400% because of a new stadium...not even in the same dimension. If he was after money it was for short term revenue spikes.


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Online  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
#99

Posted: September 10, 2019, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 4565
Location: Madison, WI
I guess one could possibly argue the value of the team was in a way hurt due to the stadium in that the team was now essentially locked into the smallest market rather than the possibility of getting moved somewhere more lucrative, wherever that might've been.


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Offline  Re: Has anyone lost confidence in Stearns
Posted: September 10, 2019, 12:29 PM Post
Posts: 2891
Baldkin said:
Brew crew 92 said:
Never bad mouthed him. But also didn’t put him on mt. Rushmore like some fans around here.


Your "Fake News" schitck is getting old. Congratulations on being the 2nd person in my 15 years here that I'm putting on ignore.

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38025&p=1237668&hilit=Attanasio#p1237644

Brew crew 92 said:
Imo, your gobbledygooking the fact that, Attanasio even said himself, that they were investing profits into the Carolina, concessions, Maryvale etc.

Where’s the accountability?

Doesn’t Attanasio NEED TO PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS?

I’ve been accused of calling Attanasio PT Barnum, even though I’m not the poster that said that, but you know what, i’m getting to the point of agreement in that description of his salesmanship.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38653&p=1229323&hilit=Attanasio#p1229323
Brew crew 92 said:
Stearns can only do so much on the CHEAP. Not gonna go any further with that, no need to. We ALL know this already, but we still pretend we have a chance to win it, yeah sure < 1%. Zero for 49 and counting, but who’s counting. 0 for 15 for Attanasio but who’s counting. Local beat writers “astonished” at a 127 mil payroll, meanwhile the Cincinnati reds, a team I would argue not as equipped as us to win, SPENDS MORE ON THEIR PAYROLL THIS YEAR THAN US. 76-86 million GROSS profit, yes GROSS, not NET, since we’ll never know the net but can confidently say another extremely healthy profit for Attanasio & investors. Attanasio has said in the past (can’t remember when, so don’t ask, but someone out there besides me can confirm, because it was said) that he would bankroll profits to increase payroll WHEN NEEDED.

WELL ITS NEEDED!!!!

Give Stearns the $ to buy a pen arm or 2 so Burnes can pitch where and how he belongs.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&p=1249474&hilit=66+million#p1249474
Brew crew 92 said:
The 66 gross profit is as factual as one can get with guarded books, comes from FORBES. Playoff revenue is estimated 10-20 million. If it’s 10 million that’s a 76 million gross profit which is top 10 in all of baseball. Actually the 66 is top 10 in baseball.

But whatever, I’m also sick of saying it.


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&p=1249468&hilit=66+million#p1249468
Brew crew 92 said:
66 million gross profit. Then add playoff revenue ON TOP OF THAT > another 10-20 million > now it’s not quite as impressive is it?


viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38943&hilit=66+million&start=20#p1249431
Brew crew 92 said:
Actually, if I could fire the owner, and replace him with an owner from Wisconsin that is a real life long brewer fan, that doesn’t have to answer to investors yearly, to make a predetermined profit each and every year, no matter the circumstances, instead of a year or 2 forgoing said yearly profit, with 125 million ONE YEAR increase in franchise value being enough “profit” for 1 year with team having gone 50 years titleless already. But of course that dream is not reality, so imo, we need an architect that is massively forward thinking, the opposite of risk averse(example > Dick Williams). Thought coming into this year we had that GM, now I’m not so sure.


It’s an honor to be only the second poster to be put on ignore by you.

I’ve been told by the mods not to keep posting the brewer franchise payroll and $ opinions, so all I will say is thank you. I stand behind my words.


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