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Questions for 2020

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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#61

Posted: October 03, 2019, 1:46 PM Post
Posts: 2975
djoctagone said:
Outlander said:
With Shaw can they DFA him and outright to the minors? Usually with arbitration eligible players you tender or non them a contract but if they were able to DFA him who would claim him and be willing to pay him 5-6 million a year in arbitration.

travis shaw has an option remaining. it's very likely that the brewers will sign him to a split contract with a more generous minor league salary than that of similar age players.

Isn't there some sort of wording in the collective bargaining that he can't make less than his previous year salary so if he is on the 40 man he would still be making $5 million a year even if he was optioned?


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#62

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:09 PM Post
Posts: 982
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
Rumor had it Shaw was already unhappy with us and wanted to be released instead of rotting away his year in the minors. Not to mention he didn't seem to really enjoy the part time role even in September.

If he has a chance to leave he is going.


Shaw, in an Instagram post yesterday:

As I look back on 2019, all I can come up with is “WHY”. Why did this happen, why couldn’t I fix it, why did this last so long, why me. I went through periods of anger, frustration, disappointment, anxiousness, among others. 2019 broke me down to my core. But I can tell you one thing that was gained was wisdom and a self awareness of what’s important and how to make sure it doesn’t happen again. I don’t have the answers for what happened in 2019 but I know one thing, 2020 WILL be better. So much wisdom and mental strength was gained this year. Time to check out for awhile from baseball, and I promise 2020 will be special again, no regrets! Much love!

Those aren't the words of a guy who was unhappy and wanted his release. Seems pretty positive and self-reflective to me


Thanks for posting that. Reflective to me too. He is a midwestern boy who likes Milwaukee.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#63

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:12 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
thebruce44 said:
Find a value FA signing at a position of need (C, SS, 3B, or SP). You have internal backup plans for whichever one of those positions you do not address with a FA.


Pretty generous to say we have backup plans at either SS or 3B.


Like it or not Arcia, Shaw, and Spangenberg are all backup plans. You may not like them, but they are possibilities and wouldn't kill a team to have an offensive black hole in 1 spot in the order.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#64

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:28 PM Post
Posts: 11875
You can question whether or not he was upset...which he was and I am sure unhappy. Who wouldn't? You think he just happily sat on the AAA bus all year? I would expect him to. I would also 100% expect him to bolt instead of staying here to get sporadic playing time. Again, I wouldn't blame him and I would expect him to. Why would he stay if we sign Moustakas? That makes zero sense on his end. He could find a way more promising situation to be in I am sure. Gotta be a bad team willing to roll the dice on a guy who was one of the better 3B for two years of the last three. The Brewers may not have it in the budget or time to figure out if he can rebound. Why would he like being a part time player in September? This is just common sense.

I am sorry, but I am sure he wanted to be released and go elsewhere everyday to start. Why would he want to sit in the minors behind an All Star 3B? I doubt he was literally demanding to be released or even approached the Brewers...but why would he want to stay in a situation with no opportunity?


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#65

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:32 PM Post
Posts: 11875
thebruce44 said:
MrTPlush said:
thebruce44 said:
Find a value FA signing at a position of need (C, SS, 3B, or SP). You have internal backup plans for whichever one of those positions you do not address with a FA.


Pretty generous to say we have backup plans at either SS or 3B.


Like it or not Arcia, Shaw, and Spangenberg are all backup plans. You may not like them, but they are possibilities and wouldn't kill a team to have an offensive black hole in 1 spot in the order.


Spangenberg is not a back up plan. Arcia and Shaw are....and I have said many times there will be a black hole in the line. Probably consisting of Arcia or Pina. Though I have adamantly said they should not go into the year with two of them (not including the pitcher). My bold prediction would be Pina starting and being the blackhole at C. My preference would probably be Arcia being the black hole with Moustakas plus a catcher covering the other two spots.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#66

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:33 PM Post
Posts: 11875
Outlander said:
djoctagone said:
Outlander said:
With Shaw can they DFA him and outright to the minors? Usually with arbitration eligible players you tender or non them a contract but if they were able to DFA him who would claim him and be willing to pay him 5-6 million a year in arbitration.

travis shaw has an option remaining. it's very likely that the brewers will sign him to a split contract with a more generous minor league salary than that of similar age players.

Isn't there some sort of wording in the collective bargaining that he can't make less than his previous year salary so if he is on the 40 man he would still be making $5 million a year even if he was optioned?


20% paycut rule


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#67

Posted: October 03, 2019, 2:38 PM Post
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Posts: 9222
MrTPlush said:
You can question whether or not he was upset...which he was and I am sure unhappy. Who wouldn't? You think he just happily sat on the AAA bus all year? I would expect him to. I would also 100% expect him to bolt instead of staying here to get sporadic playing time. Again, I wouldn't blame him and I would expect him to. Why would he stay if we sign Moustakas? That makes zero sense on his end. He could find a way more promising situation to be in I am sure. Gotta be a bad team willing to roll the dice on a guy who was one of the better 3B for two years of the last three. The Brewers may not have it in the budget or time to figure out if he can rebound. Why would he like being a part time player in September? This is just common sense.

I am sorry, but I am sure he wanted to be released and go elsewhere everyday to start. Why would he want to sit in the minors behind an All Star 3B? I doubt he was literally demanding to be released or even approached the Brewers...but why would he want to stay in a situation with no opportunity?


Travis Shaw isn't an idiot. He knows why he was playing in AAA, and that it was 100% his doing.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#68

Posted: October 03, 2019, 3:32 PM Post
Posts: 11875
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
You can question whether or not he was upset...which he was and I am sure unhappy. Who wouldn't? You think he just happily sat on the AAA bus all year? I would expect him to. I would also 100% expect him to bolt instead of staying here to get sporadic playing time. Again, I wouldn't blame him and I would expect him to. Why would he stay if we sign Moustakas? That makes zero sense on his end. He could find a way more promising situation to be in I am sure. Gotta be a bad team willing to roll the dice on a guy who was one of the better 3B for two years of the last three. The Brewers may not have it in the budget or time to figure out if he can rebound. Why would he like being a part time player in September? This is just common sense.

I am sorry, but I am sure he wanted to be released and go elsewhere everyday to start. Why would he want to sit in the minors behind an All Star 3B? I doubt he was literally demanding to be released or even approached the Brewers...but why would he want to stay in a situation with no opportunity?


Travis Shaw isn't an idiot. He knows why he was playing in AAA, and that it was 100% his doing.


Where did I say that? Didn’t say that.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#69

Posted: October 03, 2019, 4:28 PM Post
Posts: 18935
MrTPlush said:
You can question whether or not he was upset...which he was and I am sure unhappy. Who wouldn't? You think he just happily sat on the AAA bus all year? I would expect him to. I would also 100% expect him to bolt instead of staying here to get sporadic playing time. Again, I wouldn't blame him and I would expect him to. Why would he stay if we sign Moustakas? That makes zero sense on his end. He could find a way more promising situation to be in I am sure. Gotta be a bad team willing to roll the dice on a guy who was one of the better 3B for two years of the last three. The Brewers may not have it in the budget or time to figure out if he can rebound. Why would he like being a part time player in September? This is just common sense.

I am sorry, but I am sure he wanted to be released and go elsewhere everyday to start. Why would he want to sit in the minors behind an All Star 3B? I doubt he was literally demanding to be released or even approached the Brewers...but why would he want to stay in a situation with no opportunity?


Because being released would have been zero financial and career gain for him. I'm sure he didn't like being optioned, but it cost him nothing. How do you know he gets a guaranteed starting opportunity elsewhere if released?

How do you know he didn't prefer to stay where he's comfortable, hope to put it together in AAA and maybe get tendered in 2020 and be the presumably starting 3B next year it Moose signs elsewhere? Moose is going to be a FA. Maybe he's back, maybe he isn't. It's not like we signed him to a 5 year deal.

We have no idea beyond blind speculation what Travis Shaw thought was best for him and his career this summer, and it has nothing to do with common sense. I'm sure Travis Shaw is able to look bigger picture than neccesarily wanting to start his whole career over just because he wasn't going to be a starter this year for the last few months.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#70

Posted: October 03, 2019, 5:08 PM Post
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Posts: 9222
MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
You can question whether or not he was upset...which he was and I am sure unhappy. Who wouldn't? You think he just happily sat on the AAA bus all year? I would expect him to. I would also 100% expect him to bolt instead of staying here to get sporadic playing time. Again, I wouldn't blame him and I would expect him to. Why would he stay if we sign Moustakas? That makes zero sense on his end. He could find a way more promising situation to be in I am sure. Gotta be a bad team willing to roll the dice on a guy who was one of the better 3B for two years of the last three. The Brewers may not have it in the budget or time to figure out if he can rebound. Why would he like being a part time player in September? This is just common sense.

I am sorry, but I am sure he wanted to be released and go elsewhere everyday to start. Why would he want to sit in the minors behind an All Star 3B? I doubt he was literally demanding to be released or even approached the Brewers...but why would he want to stay in a situation with no opportunity?


Travis Shaw isn't an idiot. He knows why he was playing in AAA, and that it was 100% his doing.


Where did I say that? Didn’t say that.


The point I'm not so subtly referring to is that he knows why he was in AAA, and doesn't hold the team responsible for that. What I'm saying is that your narrative that he is mad at the team is a poorly thought out one.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#71

Posted: October 03, 2019, 6:00 PM Post
Posts: 11875
Actually that wasn’t my narrative at all, but carry on.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#72

Posted: October 03, 2019, 6:40 PM Post
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Posts: 9222
MrTPlush said:
Actually that wasn’t my narrative at all, but carry on.


Coulda fooled me. What is it then?
I mean, you literally said this - "Rumor had it Shaw was already unhappy with us and wanted to be released instead of rotting away his year in the minors. Not to mention he didn't seem to really enjoy the part time role even in September."

You said right there he was unhappy with the team. Unhappy = mad, right?


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#73

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:00 PM Post
Posts: 1229
MrTPlush said:
thebruce44 said:
MrTPlush said:

Spangenberg is not a back up plan. Arcia and Shaw are....and I have said many times there will be a black hole in the line. Probably consisting of Arcia or Pina. Though I have adamantly said they should not go into the year with two of them (not including the pitcher). My bold prediction would be Pina starting and being the blackhole at C. My preference would probably be Arcia being the black hole with Moustakas plus a catcher covering the other two spots.


Pina is really interesting to me. His career OPS+ is 90. For a catcher that gives you good defense, that's not bad at all.

I feel like both Pina and Arcia are like 1-win players. Arcia gets most of that from defense. Pina has split it more evenly over his career (about .5 bREf WAR on O and D). Can you carry both? Sure. Though that gets you closer to a "stars and scrubs" approach, at least as far as your lineup is concerned.

If we can only have one, I'd agree on taking Pina just because he gives you slightly better ABs and has been good against lefties.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#74

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:31 PM Post
Posts: 11875
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
Actually that wasn’t my narrative at all, but carry on.


Coulda fooled me. What is it then?
I mean, you literally said this - "Rumor had it Shaw was already unhappy with us and wanted to be released instead of rotting away his year in the minors. Not to mention he didn't seem to really enjoy the part time role even in September."

You said right there he was unhappy with the team. Unhappy = mad, right?


I personally did not say that ’right’ there. I said that was the rumor.

He definitely was unhappy with the situation and I really doubt he was okay being in the minors and not being able to be in the majors to prove himself. Who would? No one.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#75

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:31 PM Post
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Posts: 6152
53 catchers had at least 175 PAs in 2019. Of those, Pina's .724 OPS ranked 29th.

Of the 28 who finished ahead of him, only 18 had at least 300 PAs. Only 11 had at least 400 PAs.

If those catchers were good both offensively and defensively, I would think they would have had more plate appearances (unless they were injured). Starting two out of every three games should get you 400 plate appearances and enough rest during the season. Few catchers did that.

My opinion - Pina is an average starting major league catcher, and the Brewers can win with him if Grandal leaves (and they invest that money elsewhere)l.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#76

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:58 PM Post
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Posts: 9222
MrTPlush said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:
Actually that wasn’t my narrative at all, but carry on.


Coulda fooled me. What is it then?
I mean, you literally said this - "Rumor had it Shaw was already unhappy with us and wanted to be released instead of rotting away his year in the minors. Not to mention he didn't seem to really enjoy the part time role even in September."

You said right there he was unhappy with the team. Unhappy = mad, right?


I personally did not say that ’right’ there. I said that was the rumor.

He definitely was unhappy with the situation and I really doubt he was okay being in the minors and not being able to be in the majors to prove himself. Who would? No one.


Give me a break. You wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't believe it. Of course he was unhappy. Because he played like crap in the majors.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#77

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:08 PM Post
Posts: 18935
There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#78

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.


Right ... believing the latter is making a lot of assumptions while jumping to some pretty drastic conclusions.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#79

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:18 PM Post
Posts: 18935
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
adambr2 said:
There's a big, big difference between a player being upset because he was a solid regular MLB player and his performance declined so sharply that he was sent to the minor leagues (basically any competitive player), and a player being upset with his organization and wanting to leave because of his performance decline and subsequent demotion.

There's no evidence that suggests Shaw was the latter.


Right ... believing the latter is making a lot of assumptions while jumping to some pretty drastic conclusions.


I mean we had an All-Star closer in Corey Knebel who had such a bad stretch last year that he as well actually got sent down to AAA for awhile in 2018. He lost his role, then lost his spot, went down, figured things out, came back up and was a big part of the success of the pen late last year.

It happens. It does not mean he was down in Colorado Springs privately fuming for a trade.

For most of these guys, they recognize that their career is a marathon, not a sprint, and aren't going to be seeking a trade or release every time things go south.


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Offline  Re: Questions for 2020
#80

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:49 PM Post
Posts: 7160
Similar to Shaw's tweet

https://twitter.com/jdfaria34/status/11 ... 89920?s=21

We have a bunch of good guys on this team........it's why I never boo.....these guys care..... nobody enjoys playing poorly......


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