LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  [ 50 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

2020 Brewers rotation

Author Message
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#21

Posted: October 02, 2019, 1:27 PM Post
Posts: 5107
Location: New Berlin, WI
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
brewmann04 said:
They are going to have some of the starters go longer than 4-5 innings because CC wont have that extend Roster come Next Sept.


they did regularly before September.


The short term memory here is amazing. I haven't spent a ton of time, but let me guess...everyone is saying that Hader sucks right? He had one critical bad outing which completely negates his 2.62 ERA and 0.806 WHIP.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#22

Posted: October 02, 2019, 8:13 PM Post
Posts: 439
bork said:
long ball said:
I don't know why we get so worked up about who the 5 starters will be. If we've learned anything over the last couple years it's that it's going to take 10 or so guys to make it through the season. I think the better way to look at this is as a full pitching staff. Roster mainstays and shuttle guys.


That's a good point, so what does the depth chart look like now, if Lyles and Gonzalez are gone? Not a lot of depth.

Woodruff
Davies
Houser
Anderson
Nelson
Suter
Burnes
Peralta
Wilkerson
Supak
Brown


Wilkerson and Burnes are not options. Burnes looked horrible and needs to prove something in AA or AAA. Wilkerson was beyond terrible in the majors and was dfa'd so he too is out. Brown looked pathetic in AAA, so I don't see him as any type option either. Supak too looked terrible in AAA, but good in AA. I don't see him being anywhere near MLB ready next year. That doesn't leave much so hopefully Gio and Lyes are re-signed and Stearns finds some way to get another pitcher.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#23

Posted: October 02, 2019, 8:34 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13518
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Woody
Wheeler/Odorizzi
Anderson
Lyles
Davies


Hader
Pomeranz
Claudio
Knebel
Peralta
Houser
Black
Wahl

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#24

Posted: October 02, 2019, 8:39 PM Post
Posts: 1229
Brew4U said:
Woody
Wheeler/Odorizzi
Anderson
Lyles
Davies


Hader
Pomeranz
Claudio
Knebel
Peralta
Houser
Black
Wahl


I think Nelson is going to get every chance to factor in to that discussion. And I feel like the Crew would have made a harder push for Odorizzi two years ago if they liked him. Wheeler seems more likely IMO.

We will seem. I actually really like this group of pitchers. Especially with the 3 batter minimum coming. We have a lot of guys who can throw 2-3 every third day.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#25

Posted: October 03, 2019, 6:16 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1764
wntrtxn21 said:
bork said:
long ball said:
I don't know why we get so worked up about who the 5 starters will be. If we've learned anything over the last couple years it's that it's going to take 10 or so guys to make it through the season. I think the better way to look at this is as a full pitching staff. Roster mainstays and shuttle guys.


That's a good point, so what does the depth chart look like now, if Lyles and Gonzalez are gone? Not a lot of depth.

Woodruff
Davies
Houser
Anderson
Nelson
Suter
Burnes
Peralta
Wilkerson
Supak
Brown


Wilkerson and Burnes are not options. Burnes looked horrible and needs to prove something in AA or AAA. Wilkerson was beyond terrible in the majors and was dfa'd so he too is out. Brown looked pathetic in AAA, so I don't see him as any type option either. Supak too looked terrible in AAA, but good in AA. I don't see him being anywhere near MLB ready next year. That doesn't leave much so hopefully Gio and Lyes are re-signed and Stearns finds some way to get another pitcher.


How do people still speak in certainties around here?

So you are telling me Burnes goes from looking like a top 20 young arm in baseball to not having a clue after we switch pitching coaches and there isn't a chance he can tweak some mechanics this winter and return to prospect he was for 3+ years? If he has a good winter and comes out lighting people up in Spring Training he will absolutely be an option and likely will break camp in the rotation. Come on man.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#26

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:19 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9871
actually people here do realize that CC went with got them to this point in the first place with Josh going 2 innings


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#27

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:24 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 9871
KeithStone53151 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
brewmann04 said:
They are going to have some of the starters go longer than 4-5 innings because CC wont have that extend Roster come Next Sept.


they did regularly before September.


The short term memory here is amazing. I haven't spent a ton of time, but let me guess...everyone is saying that Hader sucks right? He had one critical bad outing which completely negates his 2.62 ERA and 0.806 WHIP.



It is funny that the Brewers big September push started when the rosters did expand and CC had more arms to play with.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#28

Posted: October 03, 2019, 8:24 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2238
brewmann04 said:
actually people here do realize that CC went with got them to this point in the first place with Josh going 2 innings


http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/ ... josh-hader

Hader pitched 2 (or more) innings in 14 of his 61 appearances this year. 10 of the 14 came before the all-star break, and Josh only pitched two full innings twice after the trade deadline. It mostly worked, as Hader had 2 wins, 9 saves and a hold against 2 blown saves.

I can understand Counsell's rationale for having Hader pitch multiple innings in the Wild Card game, but it wasn't the formula for most of their wins.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#29

Posted: October 03, 2019, 10:44 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 476
Location: Chicago
David Stearns knows he has to develop starting pitching from within to have any chance of competing year in/year out. Thus I'd speculate the 2020 rotation lines up like this:

Woodruff
Davies
Houser
Anderson
with Nelson, Burnes, Peralta, Faria, Suter competing for the 5 spot.

A different realistic option would include resigning Lyles, trading or even declining the option on Anderson:

Woodruff
Lyles
Davies
Houser
Nelson, Burnes Peralta, Faria, Suter

A third possibility would be signing a secondary market starting pitcher to a short term free agent contract:

Woodruff
Hamels/Kyle Gibson/Roark/Miley/etc
Davies
Houser
Anderson

with Nelson, Suter in the pen, Burnes and Peralta starting in the minors and Faria (0 options remaining) out of the organization.

The Brewers certainly aren't going to throw a multi-year 25mil+/per annum contract to a starting pitcher. Odorizzi is likely to cash in on a career year as the 2nd place trophy for the teams who miss out on Cole (and Strasburg, assuming he opts out).


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#30

Posted: October 03, 2019, 6:29 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 6152
Woodruff
Davies
Houser
Lyles
Gonzalez/Nelson

Using FIP as the measuring stick, the odd man out is Anderson. His salary gets allocated toward Lyles/Gonzalez. Gonzalez actually pitched better in innings 4-6 than 1-3, and the 2nd/3rd time facing a batter than the 1st; his struggles were in the 1st/2nd inning.

As for Houser, digging behind the numbers a bit:

1st half: 19 G, 5 starts, 42.2 IP, 2.4 K/BB, .796 OPS-A, .346 BABIP, 1.453 WHIP
2nd half: 16 G, 13 starts, 68.2 IP, 3.89 K/BB, .656 OPS-A, .279 BABIP, 1.107 WHIP

The numbers suggest that he was better in the 2nd half primarily as a starter - and better when he had a defined role as a starter - than he was primarily as a reliever in the 1st half (and bouncing back and forth between the pen and starting). Only 5 IP as a reliever in the 2nd half (with 2 ER, 1 HR given up), so the vast majority of the 2nd half numbers above were as a starter.

Given that Houser is pre-arby, I think they have to roll with him so that they can invest their resources in bringing back Moose/Grandal and/or upgrading SS.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#31

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:42 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 4883
Woodruff of course

Davies - consistently decent.
Houser - earned it
Lyles - earned it (assuming he will resign at a decent $$)

Gonzo - why not?? Sign him for depth and use him in the BP. He seems to like it here too.
Anderson - like Gonzo, depth/BP

Burnes - world-beater pre-2019; 2019: excellent-AAA/Dumpster fire-MLB. A lot of people will be digging into what happened, but he will be in consideration for 2020.
Nelson - one more chance.

One very good starter, 3 decent options, two BP/depth options and two boom/busts picks. That isn't horrible depth. If Burnes/Nelson bounce back to former glory, Woodruff, Nelson, Burnes, Lyles, and Houser is a really nice rotation.

But I wouldn't bank on that happening either. Certainly an option to pick up one or two others for upgrades.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#32

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:53 PM Post
Posts: 11881
I really doubt they would keep Gonzalez and Nelson. That’s a lot of money for two long relievers in the pen. I could see one, but both seems like a lot of money on a tight budget.

I’d be surprised to see Gio back without an assured spot in the rotation.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#33

Posted: October 03, 2019, 7:55 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13518
Location: Milwaukee, WI
I’d rather go with Burnes or Peralta over Nelson.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#34

Posted: October 03, 2019, 9:05 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10994
When you are looking at the rotation options and going like 12 names deep there is absolutely no way that Burnes isn't on the list. It makes no sense at all to come to that conclusion. It won't surprise me if Burnes is never a useful major league pitcher but it also won't surprise me if he pitches a solid 15 games starting mid season next year. Pitching is so volatile year to year.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#35

Posted: October 03, 2019, 9:19 PM Post
Posts: 4596
The fact is, assuming every free agent is retained and no signings take place, here is how the rotation looks:

Definitely In
Woodruff
Davies

Likely to be In
Gio
Houser
Lyles

On the Bubble
Suter
Anderson
Peralta

Outside Looking In
Nelson
Burnes
Faria
Supak

Minor League Wild Cards
Brown
Roegner
Bettinger
File
Francis
Zavolas
Ashby


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#36

Posted: October 05, 2019, 8:58 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10994
bjkrautk said:
brewmann04 said:
actually people here do realize that CC went with got them to this point in the first place with Josh going 2 innings


http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/ ... josh-hader

Hader pitched 2 (or more) innings in 14 of his 61 appearances this year. 10 of the 14 came before the all-star break, and Josh only pitched two full innings twice after the trade deadline. It mostly worked, as Hader had 2 wins, 9 saves and a hold against 2 blown saves.

I can understand Counsell's rationale for having Hader pitch multiple innings in the Wild Card game, but it wasn't the formula for most of their wins.


Counsell didn't pitch Hader multiple innings in the wild card game. He brought him in for the 8th against the tough part of their lineup. If he was able to pitch 2 innings that's great, it wasn't the only option. If Hader gets soto out you would have seen someone else pitch the 9th in that game.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#37

Posted: October 05, 2019, 9:40 PM Post
Posts: 439
CheezWizHed said:
Woodruff of course

Davies - consistently decent.
Houser - earned it
Lyles - earned it (assuming he will resign at a decent $$)

Gonzo - why not?? Sign him for depth and use him in the BP. He seems to like it here too.
Anderson - like Gonzo, depth/BP

Burnes - world-beater pre-2019; 2019: excellent-AAA/Dumpster fire-MLB. A lot of people will be digging into what happened, but he will be in consideration for 2020.
Nelson - one more chance.

One very good starter, 3 decent options, two BP/depth options and two boom/busts picks. That isn't horrible depth. If Burnes/Nelson bounce back to former glory, Woodruff, Nelson, Burnes, Lyles, and Houser is a really nice rotation.

But I wouldn't bank on that happening either. Certainly an option to pick up one or two others for upgrades.


In 2019 Burnes was NOT excellent in AAA. If anything he was also a dumpster fire there too. 1-5 W/L - 8.46 ERA - 29 hits in only 22 IPs - 21 ERs - WHIP 1.70. Demoted to AA ball. I think after his last performance he starts the year in AAA as a starter and they go from there. I believe Nelson has a better chance of bouncing back than does Burnes. Houser had his ups and downs, but showed enough promise to start the year as a starter. Hopfully Stearns re-signs Lyles and/or adds a FA starter. Otherwise the stating staff is once again extremely weak after Woodruff.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#38

Posted: October 06, 2019, 7:48 AM Post
Posts: 2016
26 man roster..... 28 man roster in September, Must be down 15 days instead of 10... All this will cause the team to rethink their philosophy on pitching.
[url]https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mlb-announces-major-rule-changes-for-2019-and-2020/
[/url]
My guess is the team invests in a starting pitcher or two (not Cołe) to shore this area. Piggy backing could be the next thing we hear of in Milwaukee. Two guys scheduled for one game instead of one.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#39

Posted: October 06, 2019, 10:40 AM Post
Posts: 439
rickh150 said:
26 man roster..... 28 man roster in September, Must be down 15 days instead of 10... All this will cause the team to rethink their philosophy on pitching.
[url]https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mlb-announces-major-rule-changes-for-2019-and-2020/
[/url]
My guess is the team invests in a starting pitcher or two (not Cołe) to shore this area. Piggy backing could be the next thing we hear of in Milwaukee. Two guys scheduled for one game instead of one.


Boy are you right! The 15 day thing is huge to teams like the Brewers who used the 10 day call-back option liberally. Plus I think they are still working on the total number of pitchers (13/14) allowed on the 26 man roster. The LOOGY is dead with the new 3 batter minimum which effects guys like Claudio. No matter what I think Stearns has to look at getting more/better starting pitching.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2020 Brewers rotation
#40

Posted: October 06, 2019, 12:40 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1375
Yeah if we're really gonna throw out Woodruff and everybody else (internal options) again we need the best bullpen in the league. You simply have to pair some one with Woodruff as above average options at some point. My guess would be Stearns overreacts to this season's failures and signs two SP's to medium/ large contracts. I'd prefer one and a bounce back type

"Did I ever tell you how I became a Postman Abby? I don't know if you'd laugh or cry"-The Postman


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  [ 50 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brewtank34, brooks_quichenick, djoctagone, Roderick, sobomp3, trwi7, turborickey, wntrtxn21 and 13 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test