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Live and die with Josh Hader:

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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 05, 2019, 7:22 PM Post
Posts: 1094
The analogy I like using is poker. Hader can theoretically could be like a pair of aces. It might be the best starting hand, but that doesn't mean that it won't get beat by an inferior hand. It's easy to say after the fact that the aces should have been folded, but give me a choice between aces and a weaker hand preflop and I'll take the aces every single time.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 05, 2019, 8:53 PM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
geargroy said:
Problem with Harder is that the TV announcers stated hader would pitch the last two innings which I don't agree with. Others on the squad have been closing. That's why Counsell needs to have pitchers in the bullpen warming up or at least playing catch and throw. Do or die folks.


You can disagree with the announcers, but you'd be incorrect. He was getting both of those innings. The only reason others had been closing was primarily due to days where Hader was off.

Also, you know Lyles was indeed warming in the bullpen, right?


If Hader gets Soto out there is no way that he pitches the 9th in that game, it just wasn't going to happen.


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Online  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 05, 2019, 9:42 PM Post
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I 100% think that When Hader came in, the intention was for him to pitch both innings. I’d be astounded if they had any other intention at that time. The way it unfolded, I still think it was likely that he would have come back out for the ninth if they had the lead. Who else do you trust in that situation? Pray that Junior Guerra can get it done? No, they were more likely to ride the guy that got them there, IMO.

I interpreted the poster that I quoted as questioning the claim that Hader was brought in to get through both innings, which he almost certainly was. The way it unfolded made it far less likely.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 05, 2019, 10:26 PM Post
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I'm certain he was brought in with the intention of pitching 2 innings. Once he struggled and threw 30 pitches, he probably wasn't going to go back out for the 9th, though it wasn't impossible. I question the logic of "the announcers said so, so it must be so", however.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 06, 2019, 1:59 AM Post
Posts: 4116
Ennder said:
If Hader gets Soto out there is no way that he pitches the 9th in that game, it just wasn't going to happen.



Really? No way he pitches a second inning if he gets through the 8th without giving up any runs? He was almost certainly coming back out for the 9th if he gets through the heart of the order there.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 06, 2019, 5:13 AM Post
Posts: 2977
I also think it was the intention to go two but wasn't going to happen. Believe Soto was his last hitter no matter what.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 06, 2019, 6:53 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PeaveyFury said:
geargroy said:
Problem with Harder is that the TV announcers stated hader would pitch the last two innings which I don't agree with. Others on the squad have been closing. That's why Counsell needs to have pitchers in the bullpen warming up or at least playing catch and throw. Do or die folks.


You can disagree with the announcers, but you'd be incorrect. He was getting both of those innings. The only reason others had been closing was primarily due to days where Hader was off.

Also, you know Lyles was indeed warming in the bullpen, right?


Yes, but he should have been warming up as soon as Hader hit that batter. By the time CC had Lyles up it was too late.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 06, 2019, 7:02 AM Post
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Oh the intent was definitely 2 innings when he was brought in but Counsell isn't Yost, he isn't the type of guy that is sending Hader out a 2nd inning just because that is how he wanted it to go. Hader had thrown 30 pitches already, he was highly unlikely to go out for the 9th in this particular case.

If Counsell had put Lyles in to face Soto I would think Counsell probably isn't the right manager for the team.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 07, 2019, 7:56 AM Post
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Ennder said:
Oh the intent was definitely 2 innings when he was brought in but Counsell isn't Yost, he isn't the type of guy that is sending Hader out a 2nd inning just because that is how he wanted it to go. Hader had thrown 30 pitches already, he was highly unlikely to go out for the 9th in this particular case.

If Counsell had put Lyles in to face Soto I would think Counsell probably isn't the right manager for the team.


Hader would've started the inning and someone would be ready if he got over 45 pitches. Odds are, that would be Guerra or Peralta or Lyles getting 1 or 2 outs.


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Offline  Re: Live and die with Josh Hader:
Posted: October 07, 2019, 8:03 AM Post
Posts: 11880
I think he would have been sent back out, but the leash would have been 0 feet long.


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