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Rule Changes for rosters in 2020

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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#41

Posted: January 24, 2020, 4:23 PM Post
Posts: 1132
RollieTime said:
monty57 said:
I guess I don't see a problem with the very rare occurrence of a position player pitching an inning. I think fans actually enjoy this when it does occur. Therefore, the best course of action would have seemed to have been to simply leave it alone, but that doesn't appear to be Manfred's way.


I completely agree with this. It’s sucks watching a game and being down 8-1 after the 8th inning, but it definitely does bring a little bit of fun/humor to the last inning watching a guy come in that never pitches. There is nothing that is degrading to the spirit of the game at all by having a backup infielder or catcher throwing a few pitches. The offense gets excited to face him, the defense is probably the most engaged they have been all game and get some enjoyment seeing their teammate out on the mound, and the fans get a kick out of it from both organizations.

Seems like a win all the way around.


It doesn't sound like that is being changed. Just that position players can't come in when the game isn't out of hand. Down 8-1 in the 9th, it adds entertainment, down 6-1 in the 8, just means surrender and stop watching.

The use of position players pitching used to be a novelty (less than 10 games in 2010 and 2011), last year it was 90.

Honestly, these rule changes are not huge and not going to radically change the game or the balance between pitchers and batters. They just dial back some of the gaming of the rules on the edges. In two years we'll wonder what took them so long to put them in. In 5 years we won't even think about them, it will just be the way the game is played.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#42

Posted: January 25, 2020, 2:47 AM Post
Posts: 1170
Location: Washburn, WI
MadScientist said:
RollieTime said:
monty57 said:
I guess I don't see a problem with the very rare occurrence of a position player pitching an inning. I think fans actually enjoy this when it does occur. Therefore, the best course of action would have seemed to have been to simply leave it alone, but that doesn't appear to be Manfred's way.


I completely agree with this. It’s sucks watching a game and being down 8-1 after the 8th inning, but it definitely does bring a little bit of fun/humor to the last inning watching a guy come in that never pitches. There is nothing that is degrading to the spirit of the game at all by having a backup infielder or catcher throwing a few pitches. The offense gets excited to face him, the defense is probably the most engaged they have been all game and get some enjoyment seeing their teammate out on the mound, and the fans get a kick out of it from both organizations.

Seems like a win all the way around.


It doesn't sound like that is being changed. Just that position players can't come in when the game isn't out of hand. Down 8-1 in the 9th, it adds entertainment, down 6-1 in the 8, just means surrender and stop watching.

The use of position players pitching used to be a novelty (less than 10 games in 2010 and 2011), last year it was 90.

Honestly, these rule changes are not huge and not going to radically change the game or the balance between pitchers and batters. They just dial back some of the gaming of the rules on the edges. In two years we'll wonder what took them so long to put them in. In 5 years we won't even think about them, it will just be the way the game is played.


Isn’t it though that only players delegated as “pitchers” can pitch? Or will someone like Sogard be able to pitch this year?


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#43

Posted: January 25, 2020, 9:03 AM Post
Posts: 2182
Location: Madison, WI
https://theathletic.com/1555626/2020/01 ... sequences/

Unintended Consequences! Gotta love it!


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#44

Posted: January 29, 2020, 5:33 PM Post

Roster Guru
Posts: 2962
djoctagone said:
what still hasn't been decided upon formally regarding roster construction?

maximum number of pitchers allowed on a roster?

has it been made official that the requisite stay for all players (pitchers and position players) on optional assignment must be at least 15 days instead of 10?

mlb has ruled officially: 13 pitchers maximum on the 26-man roster.

in other words, pretty much what the brewers have done for the majority of the past two seasons.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#45

Posted: February 12, 2020, 3:32 PM Post

Roster Guru
Posts: 2962
mlb announces rule changes for 2020:

--pitchers requisite stay for being optioned increases from 10 days to 15 days. position players can be recalled after 10 days.

--pitchers and two-way players must remain on the injured list for a minimum of 15 days--an increase from 10 days.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#46

Posted: February 12, 2020, 4:00 PM Post
Posts: 5592
Location: New Berlin, WI
One thing I noticed, let's say there's a minor league player that's a legit 2 way player all the way through the minors. Said player doesn't fit the criteria as a 2 way player. Since position players aren't allowed to pitch, how does one ever become a 2 way player according to the new rules?


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#47

Posted: February 12, 2020, 4:27 PM Post
Posts: 20
KeithStone53151 said:
One thing I noticed, let's say there's a minor league player that's a legit 2 way player all the way through the minors. Said player doesn't fit the criteria as a 2 way player. Since position players aren't allowed to pitch, how does one ever become a 2 way player according to the new rules?



You have to be designated as a pitcher for a certain number of games right? its all about the designation. when you are designated as a pitcher you won't be able to go play the field and vice versa. After the player has the right number of games at both positions they can be designated a 2-way player.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#48

Posted: February 12, 2020, 4:44 PM Post
Posts: 5592
Location: New Berlin, WI
pyrocyz said:
KeithStone53151 said:
One thing I noticed, let's say there's a minor league player that's a legit 2 way player all the way through the minors. Said player doesn't fit the criteria as a 2 way player. Since position players aren't allowed to pitch, how does one ever become a 2 way player according to the new rules?



You have to be designated as a pitcher for a certain number of games right? its all about the designation. when you are designated as a pitcher you won't be able to go play the field and vice versa. After the player has the right number of games at both positions they can be designated a 2-way player.


Ahh, no rule against playing a pitcher in the field. So that player would have to count as a pitcher until he hits 20 innings and 20 starts with min 3 PA.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#49

Posted: February 13, 2020, 2:39 AM Post
Posts: 1170
Location: Washburn, WI
KeithStone53151 said:
pyrocyz said:
KeithStone53151 said:
One thing I noticed, let's say there's a minor league player that's a legit 2 way player all the way through the minors. Said player doesn't fit the criteria as a 2 way player. Since position players aren't allowed to pitch, how does one ever become a 2 way player according to the new rules?



You have to be designated as a pitcher for a certain number of games right? its all about the designation. when you are designated as a pitcher you won't be able to go play the field and vice versa. After the player has the right number of games at both positions they can be designated a 2-way player.


Ahh, no rule against playing a pitcher in the field. So that player would have to count as a pitcher until he hits 20 innings and 20 starts with min 3 PA.


Yeah jeez. Come on, this is the way baseball is meant to be played. With rules on top of rules to govern rules so much that nobody even knows what is what anymore.

So when a team is down 7-1 in the 9th and has mustered something like 1 or 2 hits all day, they are forced to waste a pitcher even though the game is essentially over. I hate all these rule changes. There is so much going on it’s hard to even keep track of everything like how many appearances 2 way players have for the year, mound visits, 3 batter minimum, different IL stays depending on if you’re a pitcher or position player, what can or can’t be challenged, roster pitcher limits, when position players can pitch, etc.

Can’t wait until the pitch clock is added next as well as pick off limits, time limits per inning, and foul ball limits where after 3 foul balls, you’re out. This is the game we all fell in love with. [rolling eyes]


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#50

Posted: February 13, 2020, 6:42 AM Post
Posts: 4928
RollieTime said:
KeithStone53151 said:

Yeah jeez. Come on, this is the way baseball is meant to be played. With rules on top of rules to govern rules so much that nobody even knows what is what anymore.

So when a team is down 7-1 in the 9th and has mustered something like 1 or 2 hits all day, they are forced to waste a pitcher even though the game is essentially over. I hate all these rule changes. There is so much going on it’s hard to even keep track of everything like how many appearances 2 way players have for the year, mound visits, 3 batter minimum, different IL stays depending on if you’re a pitcher or position player, what can or can’t be challenged, roster pitcher limits, when position players can pitch, etc.

Can’t wait until the pitch clock is added next as well as pick off limits, time limits per inning, and foul ball limits where after 3 foul balls, you’re out. This is the game we all fell in love with. [rolling eyes]


I think the rule would allow a position player to pitch in that instance. 6runs or more from 9th inning or extra innings I read no? It's the 7th/8th inning roles they are removing.

I do find the multi-way player confusing. Let's say Ohtani DH's the first month of the season as his pitching arm wasn't ready to begin the season. The Angels would have to list him as a Pitcher during that time? It seemed that way. They had to start off as a pitcher and not a position player? I think MLB could have done better and just had a team fill out this player would be multi-way on the season and that player had to hit the mark to carry the title next season. Say if the player didn't meet the designation, the Team is penalized a 1st round draft pick. The player as stated loses the chance next season as a title multi-way and would be left being a pitcher or position player only the next season.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#51

Posted: February 13, 2020, 8:58 AM Post
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Posts: 593
brewcrewdue80 said:
RollieTime said:
KeithStone53151 said:

Yeah jeez. Come on, this is the way baseball is meant to be played. With rules on top of rules to govern rules so much that nobody even knows what is what anymore.

So when a team is down 7-1 in the 9th and has mustered something like 1 or 2 hits all day, they are forced to waste a pitcher even though the game is essentially over. I hate all these rule changes. There is so much going on it’s hard to even keep track of everything like how many appearances 2 way players have for the year, mound visits, 3 batter minimum, different IL stays depending on if you’re a pitcher or position player, what can or can’t be challenged, roster pitcher limits, when position players can pitch, etc.

Can’t wait until the pitch clock is added next as well as pick off limits, time limits per inning, and foul ball limits where after 3 foul balls, you’re out. This is the game we all fell in love with. [rolling eyes]


I think the rule would allow a position player to pitch in that instance. 6runs or more from 9th inning or extra innings I read no? It's the 7th/8th inning roles they are removing.

I do find the multi-way player confusing. Let's say Ohtani DH's the first month of the season as his pitching arm wasn't ready to begin the season. The Angels would have to list him as a Pitcher during that time? It seemed that way. They had to start off as a pitcher and not a position player? I think MLB could have done better and just had a team fill out this player would be multi-way on the season and that player had to hit the mark to carry the title next season. Say if the player didn't meet the designation, the Team is penalized a 1st round draft pick. The player as stated loses the chance next season as a title multi-way and would be left being a pitcher or position player only the next season.

Not quite. A position player can pitch at any time after the 9th inning regardless of the score, so from the 10th inning on. A position player can also pitch at any point during the game as long as his team is winning or losing by 7 runs or more (the rule is worded "by more than 6 runs"). That could technically be the 1st inning if the score qualifies.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#52

Posted: February 13, 2020, 11:40 AM Post
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Posts: 1237
Location: Baltimore, MD
So does that mean if you're down 7-0 in the top of the 8th, bring in a position player to end the inning, score a run to make it 7-1 going into the 9th, you're then *forced* to take out the position player and bring in a designated pitcher to pitch the 9th?


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#53

Posted: February 13, 2020, 12:13 PM Post
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Posts: 8674
Complicated rules to fix problems that don't even exist. Manfred must have worked for the government in a previous life.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#54

Posted: February 13, 2020, 3:25 PM Post
Posts: 4928
You're right I was thinking 6 runs or more vs more than.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#55

Posted: February 13, 2020, 3:46 PM Post
Posts: 5130
Location: Madison, WI
jerichoholicninja said:
Complicated rules to fix problems that don't even exist. Manfred must have worked for the government in a previous life.


That's my take as well. They're going down the NFL road of over regulating things. This fixes a problem that didn't exist.

What kills for us is that these rules seem almost targeted at what MKE has done the last 2-3 years.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#56

Posted: February 14, 2020, 8:00 AM Post
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Posts: 11236
It is trying to get ahead of a problem that is getting worse. There was a big spike of position players pitching in 2018 and another spike in 2019. The players don't like it, the fans don't like it. But if it can save your bullpen the manager is going to do it. There really is nothing wrong with the rule the way it is written.

I mean do you think a fan who is at a game that is say 5-1 in the 8th wants to see the shortstop come in to pitch because the manager wants to save the bullpen? I sure don't.

I am curious about the question posted above. If you have a position player in and the lead shrinks do you have to take him out?


Last edited by Ennder on February 14, 2020, 9:25 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#57

Posted: February 14, 2020, 8:25 AM Post
Posts: 20547
Ennder said:
It is trying to get ahead of a problem that is getting worse. There was a big spike of position players pitching in 2018 and another spike in 2019. The players don't like it, the fans don't like it. But if it can save your bullpen the manager is going to do it. There really is nothing wrong with the rule the way it is written.

I mean do you think a fan who is at a game that is say 5-1 in the 8th wants to see the shortstop come in to pitch because the manager wants to save the bullpen? I sure don't.


Does that ever actually happen? I would guess 95%+ of the situations where a position player came in and pitched were already legal under the new rule.

Pitching a position player in a 10-1 game in the 8th is understandable. A 5-1 game in the 8th is a very bad look and demonstrates a lack of faith in your team rallying -- I don't think any manager wants to do that and therefore don't think the rule is necessary. Managers aren't throwing position players in 4 run games in the 8th currently.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#58

Posted: February 14, 2020, 10:00 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 8674
Ennder said:
It is trying to get ahead of a problem that is getting worse. There was a big spike of position players pitching in 2018 and another spike in 2019. The players don't like it, the fans don't like it. But if it can save your bullpen the manager is going to do it. There really is nothing wrong with the rule the way it is written.

I mean do you think a fan who is at a game that is say 5-1 in the 8th wants to see the shortstop come in to pitch because the manager wants to save the bullpen? I sure don't.

I am curious about the question posted above. If you have a position player in and the lead shrinks do you have to take him out?


I do. There's a 1% chance you're going to come back, if even that high. Why waste a BP arm for an inning of a game you're almost certainly not going to win?


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#59

Posted: February 14, 2020, 10:27 AM Post
Posts: 20547
jerichoholicninja said:
Ennder said:
It is trying to get ahead of a problem that is getting worse. There was a big spike of position players pitching in 2018 and another spike in 2019. The players don't like it, the fans don't like it. But if it can save your bullpen the manager is going to do it. There really is nothing wrong with the rule the way it is written.

I mean do you think a fan who is at a game that is say 5-1 in the 8th wants to see the shortstop come in to pitch because the manager wants to save the bullpen? I sure don't.

I am curious about the question posted above. If you have a position player in and the lead shrinks do you have to take him out?


I do. There's a 1% chance you're going to come back, if even that high. Why waste a BP arm for an inning of a game you're almost certainly not going to win?


Yeah, I mean the other part of it is that 90% of fans in a 5-1 8th inning game have either left the park or mentally tuned out. Very few are really going to care whether Alex Claudio or Luis Urias pitches the 8th inning with a 4 run deficit. And as I mentioned I don't think position players are pitching in even that close of games.


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Offline  Re: Rule Changes for rosters in 2020
#60

Posted: February 14, 2020, 3:00 PM Post
Posts: 752
brewcrewdue80 said:
RollieTime said:
KeithStone53151 said:

Yeah jeez. Come on, this is the way baseball is meant to be played. With rules on top of rules to govern rules so much that nobody even knows what is what anymore.

So when a team is down 7-1 in the 9th and has mustered something like 1 or 2 hits all day, they are forced to waste a pitcher even though the game is essentially over. I hate all these rule changes. There is so much going on it’s hard to even keep track of everything like how many appearances 2 way players have for the year, mound visits, 3 batter minimum, different IL stays depending on if you’re a pitcher or position player, what can or can’t be challenged, roster pitcher limits, when position players can pitch, etc.

Can’t wait until the pitch clock is added next as well as pick off limits, time limits per inning, and foul ball limits where after 3 foul balls, you’re out. This is the game we all fell in love with. [rolling eyes]


I think the rule would allow a position player to pitch in that instance. 6runs or more from 9th inning or extra innings I read no? It's the 7th/8th inning roles they are removing.

I do find the multi-way player confusing. Let's say Ohtani DH's the first month of the season as his pitching arm wasn't ready to begin the season. The Angels would have to list him as a Pitcher during that time? It seemed that way. They had to start off as a pitcher and not a position player? I think MLB could have done better and just had a team fill out this player would be multi-way on the season and that player had to hit the mark to carry the title next season. Say if the player didn't meet the designation, the Team is penalized a 1st round draft pick. The player as stated loses the chance next season as a title multi-way and would be left being a pitcher or position player only the next season.


The Angels can designate Ohtani a 2-way player from the start. The qualification for designation goes back to the 2018 season. If a team wants a new player to be a 2-way player, I would imagine they would designate him as a pitcher and then have him play a position or DH for the qualifying number of games and ABs.


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