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Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year

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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#61

Posted: February 14, 2020, 1:11 PM Post
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wildcat2237 said:
Good news for the Brewers.

However, I am hopeful this whole thing doesn't sour Hader and impact his 2020 performance.


If they sign someone this week for $2M, it might...


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#62

Posted: February 14, 2020, 1:12 PM Post
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If he wants to hurt his own value being a sour puss and pitch lousy, I guess go ahead.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Online  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#63

Posted: February 14, 2020, 1:33 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee
Hader got a gift this year by being a super 2. Even at 4,1M its a substantial raise. I doubt he will be too upset


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#64

Posted: February 14, 2020, 1:38 PM Post
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ClosetBrewerFan said:
Hader got a gift this year by being a super 2. Even at 4,1M its a substantial raise. I doubt he will be too upset


He's been asked about it a few times this offseason, and to his credit he's said the right things, i.e. he isn't worried about it, understands its a business, and isn't going to be mad whatever happens. Letting sour grapes lead to a negative impact on his performance would be a terrible business decision on his part.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#65

Posted: February 14, 2020, 2:09 PM Post
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Good, Stripling incoming.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#66

Posted: February 14, 2020, 2:17 PM Post
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Hader should be fine. To be clear though, it's not *just* 2.3M. He also loses on his baseline for future earnings.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#67

Posted: February 14, 2020, 2:19 PM Post
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His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money. Not really the Brewers fault they were trying to make a huge statement case for relievers and lost.

Big loss for Hader probably worth a solid $15mil+ in earnings. He has three more years of arbitration and that amount x4 alone is $8.2mil (including this years loss). Then you have to take into consideration the raises for the next three years of that lost salary.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#68

Posted: February 14, 2020, 3:01 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money.


No certainty that the Brewers were willing to meet in the middle though. They might have been confident in their case and not willing to compromise their baseline for Hader by meeting at 5.25 or whatever. Maybe they were willing to negotiate as high as 4.5M and Hader wasn't interested in settling that far off his ask.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#69

Posted: February 14, 2020, 3:43 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
MrTPlush said:
His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money.


No certainty that the Brewers were willing to meet in the middle though. They might have been confident in their case and not willing to compromise their baseline for Hader by meeting at 5.25 or whatever. Maybe they were willing to negotiate as high as 4.5M and Hader wasn't interested in settling that far off his ask.


There may have not met in the middle, but I am sure they would have gone somewhere a touch under $5mil...maybe right on $5mil. Probably not past that.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#70

Posted: February 14, 2020, 4:30 PM Post
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https://twitter.com/todd_rosiak/status/ ... 95232?s=21


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#71

Posted: February 14, 2020, 4:42 PM Post
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The arbitration hearing have gone the team's way this season. That probably shouldn't come as a surprise since arbitration is decided on outdated metrics. When saves are a major component of consideration and teams use their best relievers in non save situations more often the players will lose arbitration cases more often.

I posted this then listened to the Hader interview above. Guess I should have listened to that first.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#72

Posted: February 15, 2020, 9:59 PM Post
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CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#73

Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:19 AM Post
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rickh150 said:
CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?


I think everyone knows it's wrong. I think MKE put together the case that fit the current measuring stick. Elite reliever, only 37 saves. Matches Familia but not save dominated Papelbon.

I think its a case of them knowing they were going to win while being wrong and that it's up to the CBA and MLBPU to fix it.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#74

Posted: February 16, 2020, 1:56 AM Post
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rickh150 said:
CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?


Really Counsell said that? Wow. Stir the pot idiotic platform to stand on. Validate Hader's beliefs before the season begins as the manager? What was he thinking? Well good luck keeping Hader longer than this season. This will follow both all season on every nationally televised game. Stir the pot controversy. Especially if Hader pitches that game any inning outside the 9th inning. Just watch. Easiest prediction to make this season.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#75

Posted: February 16, 2020, 2:42 AM Post
Posts: 2114
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/baseball/professional/brewers-manager-craig-counsell-says-josh-hader-should-have-won/article_14acfff4-62c8-5e01-a3f8-c6344adbf799.html


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#76

Posted: February 16, 2020, 2:44 AM Post
Posts: 2114
Another reason why he is dealt in the next few weeks...


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#77

Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:57 PM Post
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brewcrewdue80 said:
rickh150 said:
CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?


Really Counsell said that? Wow. Stir the pot idiotic platform to stand on. Validate Hader's beliefs before the season begins as the manager? What was he thinking? Well good luck keeping Hader longer than this season. This will follow both all season on every nationally televised game. Stir the pot controversy. Especially if Hader pitches that game any inning outside the 9th inning. Just watch. Easiest prediction to make this season.


Actually, I think this will be good for the team, Hader, and Counsell.

Anyone who has two eyes and who knows baseball knows how valuable Hader is to the Brewers.

Hader hasn't bad-talked the Brewers over this. He said he knew it was a business, and that the system, is out of date. Everyone here is acknowledging that fact.

Counsell is simply acknowledging the truth, he is saying something every player on the Brewers knows about Hader's importance and value to the team.

As far as I am concerned, we just saw a glimpse of why Craig Counsell gets so much from the players.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#78

Posted: February 16, 2020, 1:09 PM Post
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This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#79

Posted: February 16, 2020, 1:17 PM Post
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CheezWizHed said:
This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.


Suter getting paid could be the good cop bad cop too. Hader winning his had a domino effect going forward. Had to dig in. As soon as they won that, why push Suter around. You saved 2.3 mil on Hader and avoided that total exploding every year of Arby by setting a low base number.

Give 1.1 of it to Suter because his value is never going to set off a massive domino effect. Suter at 1.5 next year and 1.9 this year is no harm no foul. Buys out his Arby 1 and 2.


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Offline  Re: Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year
#80

Posted: February 16, 2020, 1:26 PM Post
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TJseven7 said:
CheezWizHed said:
This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.


Suter getting paid could be the good cop bad cop too. Hader winning his had a domino effect going forward. Had to dig in. As soon as they won that, why push Suter around. You saved 2.3 mil on Hader and avoided that total exploding every year of Arby by setting a low base number.

Give 1.1 of it to Suter because his value is never going to set off a massive domino effect. Suter at 1.5 next year and 1.9 this year is no harm no foul. Buys out his Arby 1 and 2.


Plus, if Suter keeps up his current production as a reliever (1.29 ERA, 0.966 WHIP), then it also could be a HUGE bargain in 2021, and after that, with two years of control, Suter could be a valuable trade piece.

Even if he returns to the rotation at the pace he's put up over his career (4.28 ERA), he still could help pull off a Davies-type deal like we saw this past off-season.


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