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Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m

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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#81

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:49 PM Post
Posts: 8650
Brewcrewin07 said:
I love how no one here seems to mind that the Brewers have now lost Grandal, Moose and Pomeranz this off season so far. Now there is a HUGE hole in this Brewers lineup to protect Yelich and no one seems alarmed?? How on earth are they going to replace Moose and Grandal's bats with at least equal to or better production than they gave?? No one year stop gaps. That isn't going to cut it. Sure, that's what Moose and Grandal essentially were, but they also had the chance to re sign either one(or both) and didn't.

Stearns has a crap ton of $$ at his disposal...he had better pull of something HUGE, and I mean HUGE to salvage this off season and so the crew doesn't take a step back. Watch the Brewers end up with some schlub like Todd Frazier to play third and someone like Logan Forsythe to play 1st. Like that would replace Moose and Grandal's production...yeah right. And that will do nothing to fill the catching hole either. I hope like hell DS has a plan, because as of right now, it's not looking too good.


It's not that nobody "minds." Would love to have them all back, hate to see them go. If only there wasn't this darn problem called competition. I'm glad Stearns passed, none of those contracts would have been wise for the Brewers. Season doesn't start tomorrow, R-E-L-A-X. Hot stove league is just warming up. But fair warning, Stearns may not do something HUUUUGE. It may be a few deals that as a whole makes the roster better.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#82

Posted: December 02, 2019, 4:58 PM Post
Posts: 19419
True Blue Brew Crew said:
82brewcrew82 said:
I don't see any way they don't trade Hader now. Too many holes to fill otherwise.


Odd. It seems more likely to me. The return for Hader can plug some pretty big holes.


I think he is in agreement with you. I personally think one has little or nothing to do with the other.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#83

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:03 PM Post
Posts: 1231
Location: Ohio
I think is a fair summary of the off season so far.....

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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#84

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:03 PM Post
Posts: 537
I agree its going to be a lot of money for a 35 year old second baseman and I am glad the Brewers didn't go there...but I'm all for giving a one or two year contract to a 36 year old Howie Kendrick...$5m per?


Last edited by jonescm128 on December 02, 2019, 5:05 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#85

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:05 PM Post
Posts: 1231
Location: Ohio
jonescm128 said:
I agree its going to be a lot of money for a 35 year old second baseman and I am glad the Brewers didn't go there...but give me a 1 yr/$5 million Howie Kendrick deal.


Do you really think Howie Kendrick comes to MKE for 1 yr/ $5M when other teams (like Washington) could offer him the same or a little more??


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#86

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:07 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 331
Brewcrewin07 said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
I love how no one here seems to mind that the Brewers have now lost Grandal, Moose and Pomeranz this off season so far. Now there is a HUGE hole in this Brewers lineup to protect Yelich and no one seems alarmed?? How on earth are they going to replace Moose and Grandal's bats with at least equal to or better production than they gave?? No one year stop gaps. That isn't going to cut it. Sure, that's what Moose and Grandal essentially were, but they also had the chance to re sign either one(or both) and didn't.

Stearns has a crap ton of $$ at his disposal...he had better pull of something HUGE, and I mean HUGE to salvage this off season and so the crew doesn't take a step back. Watch the Brewers end up with some schlub like Todd Frazier to play third and someone like Logan Forsythe to play 1st. Like that would replace Moose and Grandal's production...yeah right. And that will do nothing to fill the catching hole either. I hope like hell DS has a plan, because as of right now, it's not looking too good.


Here we go. You may want to follow one of the top 8markets in baseball. Not one in the bottom 5.


The Bucks are a small market...they spent a crap ton of cash in the off season...the Packers are a small market...they spent a crap ton of $$ in the off season. That's a crutch that owners of "small market" teams lean on and fans buy into sadly. You are only a "small market" if you act like a small market.


I'll take "Economically Unaware" for $2,000, Alex."


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#87

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:07 PM Post
Posts: 537
MadThinker88 said:
jonescm128 said:
I agree its going to be a lot of money for a 35 year old second baseman and I am glad the Brewers didn't go there...but give me a 1 yr/$5 million Howie Kendrick deal.


Do you really think Howie Kendrick comes to MKE for 1 yr/ $5M when other teams (like Washington) could offer him the same or a little more??


I think he will go to whoever offers him the most money. That's what I think.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#88

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:09 PM Post
Posts: 4464
FVBrewerFan said:

It's not that nobody "minds." Would love to have them all back, hate to see them go. If only there wasn't this darn problem called competition. I'm glad Stearns passed, none of those contracts would have been wise for the Brewers. Season doesn't start tomorrow, R-E-L-A-X. Hot stove league is just warming up. But fair warning, Stearns may not do something HUUUUGE. It may be a few deals that as a whole makes the roster better.[/quote]

That's what I both expect and hope happens. I prefer a deep roster full of good players than one or two big names upon which all hope is pinned to.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#89

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:14 PM Post
Posts: 1886
FVBrewerFan said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
I love how no one here seems to mind that the Brewers have now lost Grandal, Moose and Pomeranz this off season so far. Now there is a HUGE hole in this Brewers lineup to protect Yelich and no one seems alarmed?? How on earth are they going to replace Moose and Grandal's bats with at least equal to or better production than they gave?? No one year stop gaps. That isn't going to cut it. Sure, that's what Moose and Grandal essentially were, but they also had the chance to re sign either one(or both) and didn't.

Stearns has a crap ton of $$ at his disposal...he had better pull of something HUGE, and I mean HUGE to salvage this off season and so the crew doesn't take a step back. Watch the Brewers end up with some schlub like Todd Frazier to play third and someone like Logan Forsythe to play 1st. Like that would replace Moose and Grandal's production...yeah right. And that will do nothing to fill the catching hole either. I hope like hell DS has a plan, because as of right now, it's not looking too good.


It's not that nobody "minds." Would love to have them all back, hate to see them go. If only there wasn't this darn problem called competition. I'm glad Stearns passed, none of those contracts would have been wise for the Brewers. Season doesn't start tomorrow, R-E-L-A-X. Hot stove league is just warming up. But fair warning, Stearns may not do something HUUUUGE. It may be a few deals that as a whole makes the roster better.


88 HR's and 225 RBI's just walked out that door..Thames, Grandal and Moose...and unless you find equal to or better production from an equal # of players that you bring in...the roster will almost assuredly not be as good. Where are you going to find that with three players?? This is where people chime in with "well, Urias will be better than Arcia, so that's some of it, if Cain rebounds that will help, and if Shaw comes back and can be Travis Shaw". Sure...that would be great if that happened, but the flaw in that is...that's a lot of IF's(not the known, proven production that left), and if they all were better, they could still be better ON TOP of having the production Moose, Grandal and Thames, and the team would be even better then, and also not necessarily HAVE to rely on their production like they might have to now right??

Unless Anthony Rendon and Nick Castellanos are walking through that door, or some absolutely grand slam highway robbery trade happens that DS pulls off, it will be essentially impossible to replace those #'s with 3 available FA's...UNLESS they happen to catch lightening in a bottle from a guy or two. Don't think you want to have to rely on that as a sound strategy.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#90

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:18 PM Post
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Posts: 2672
homer said:
bill hAll Star said:
I see this move as similar to Kirk Cousins signing with the Vikings.

Is it a deal that may burn them either with his contract or the fact that they lose other guys 3-5 years from now? Yes.

However, does it make a division competitor a good enough team to challenge us for a playoff spot when we have Yelich/Rodgers in their short prime/contracted windows? Also yes.

I'd probably have preferred the Reds and Vikings to trot out some diamond in the rough minor leaguer or 3rd round draft pick or Case Keenum at QB instead.


I think they need some other stuff to happen in order for them to gain 10+ games in the standings.


Even if they beat the Brewers a handful of extra times that hurts.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#91

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:21 PM Post
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Posts: 1888
It's Chicken Little season already? I swear I never even saw the decorations go up!


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#92

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:31 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2477
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
Brewcrewin07 said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
I love how no one here seems to mind that the Brewers have now lost Grandal, Moose and Pomeranz this off season so far. Now there is a HUGE hole in this Brewers lineup to protect Yelich and no one seems alarmed?? How on earth are they going to replace Moose and Grandal's bats with at least equal to or better production than they gave?? No one year stop gaps. That isn't going to cut it. Sure, that's what Moose and Grandal essentially were, but they also had the chance to re sign either one(or both) and didn't.

Stearns has a crap ton of $$ at his disposal...he had better pull of something HUGE, and I mean HUGE to salvage this off season and so the crew doesn't take a step back. Watch the Brewers end up with some schlub like Todd Frazier to play third and someone like Logan Forsythe to play 1st. Like that would replace Moose and Grandal's production...yeah right. And that will do nothing to fill the catching hole either. I hope like hell DS has a plan, because as of right now, it's not looking too good.


Here we go. You may want to follow one of the top 8markets in baseball. Not one in the bottom 5.


The Bucks are a small market...they spent a crap ton of cash in the off season...the Packers are a small market...they spent a crap ton of $$ in the off season. That's a crutch that owners of "small market" teams lean on and fans buy into sadly. You are only a "small market" if you act like a small market.


The Packers are in the smallest media market but I wouldn't say they are a "small market" team with their large national following and the equity of money for each NFL franchise.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#93

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:36 PM Post
Posts: 1047
There's the same pattern every offseason (or around the trade deadline). The same people panicking every time another team makes a trade. The same people clamouring for David Stearns' head because he doesn't have the balls to make moves and "scared money don't make money" repeated ad nauseum. The players involved change, the specific circumstances change, but the posts remain the same. The Brewers chances for contending were over at the deadline in 2017, 2018 and 2019. And every offseason inbetween because of not signing player X or player Y.

Sometimes it just gets so stupid that it hurts. The ignore feature is great, but doesn't prevent you from seeing other people quoting them.


It's pretty simple, I don't panic because I trust in this front office. I don't know what the plan is, but I know that there is one. If certain players don't sign it's not because they are scared or clueless. There is a reason behind it. Will every move or non-move work out? No, of course not. But they have a good enough track record that I'm going to sit back and watch, and trust in their ability. If the roster looks the same on March 2nd I'll join in for some light panicking, but not before then.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#94

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:39 PM Post
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Posts: 964
bigredrobbo said:
It's Chicken Little season already? I swear I never even saw the decorations go up!


It's like people don't think there are other ways to put together a winning ballclub. The all or nothing, strikeout or hit a home run offense, isn't even the most optimal route for a small market budget. Yet these are the same people who complain about not being able to drive in a runner from 3rd with less than two outs. They also apparently haven't grasped how much bad money is spent in free agency. Ask the Phillies how winning the free agency sweepstakes has been working out for them. When teams are suddenly back to overpaying for .260 and 30 dingers, you run in the opposite direction.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#95

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:51 PM Post
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Posts: 3439
Love Moose as a player, but this is a disastrous move for Cincinnati.

First of all, this is overrating him as an offensive player. He's consistently solid and gives you HR/RBI, but his overall offensive profile is basically average and not worth $64 million. Keep in mind he almost had a career year last season (second best of his career) at age 30, and most of that was in the first half. Through the second half he was middling.

Second of all, this is a huge gamble on 359 defensive innings at 2B. The Reds have Votto and Suarez locked up for at least three years, so there is absolutely nowhere to move Moose if he struggles as an everyday 2B or his defense falls off a cliff.

Really strange decision making.


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Online  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#96

Posted: December 02, 2019, 5:55 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5611
Location: Phoenix, AZ
The Reds are going to be hating the contract after the first year. Moustakas is not worth 4-years and $64m and I am glad the Brewers did not resign Moustakas at anywhere close to what he got.

Also it doesn't look like the owners are "colluding" this year. [rolling eyes]


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#97

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:04 PM Post
Posts: 20
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that Hiura will be playing a full season. Since Moose played second the first part of the season, I figure that negates about half of the Moose loss. Urias should off set that further. Also, I am confident that they will find a capable replacement at first. That leaves trying to overcome the loss of Grandall as the big piece to fill. The previously mentioned "ifs" could go along way to make that up. Can the team still be improved? Obviously! But, I don't think we are that far from where we started 2019. Would I have liked to see Moose back? Yes! But, I trust that Stearns is doing what is best for the franchise, both short and long term.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#98

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:09 PM Post
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Posts: 6243
Moustakas was a 3 WAR player last year, 2.5 WAR player the year before, and the Reds got him for $16M/year. Putting him in that bandbox in Cincy won't harm his numbers. He's not old by any stretch - it will be his age 31/32/33/34 seasons. Cincy is fairly RH-heavy in their lineup and they are adding some LH balance. And there is always extra value when you can improve your team and make a division opponent weaker in the same move.

I'm sorry, but this is not a bad deal at all for Cincinnati.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
#99

Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:12 PM Post
Posts: 3462
Happy for Moose that he was able to get a long term deal, and very glad it wasn’t from us.

I’ll miss him as a good player, and great guy.


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Offline  Re: Reds Sign Moustakas - 4 Years, $64m
Posted: December 02, 2019, 6:41 PM Post
Posts: 2358
Love what Moose brought to the table but this deal is not a good one. Especially playing second base?? Wow. More money to work with. Stearns put it to use.


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