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Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll

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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#41

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:05 PM Post
Posts: 1864
Location: Madison, WI
This really wouldn't be surprising at all. The highest the Brewers ever ran an opening day payroll prior to 2019 was 104 million in 2015, and then Attanasio jumped it from 90 million to 122 million when going from 2018 to 2019. So it was a 36% increase from 2018 to 2019...or a 17% increase over the all-time high. Pretty significant jump either way you look at it. I remember doing the off-season plan last year and ended up naming Wilson Ramos instead of Grandal because I thought the season end payroll would probably be limited to 118 million so didn't want to go over 112 for opening day which excluded giving Grandal an 18 million dollar deal.

If this news is legit, my reaction is that the news really doesn't tell me anything. If they are cutting the opening day payroll from 122 million to 100 million, then this is a huge story. But if Attanasio has run the numbers and just missed his projected profit margin by a few million, and has told Stearns that he wants to decrease the opening day payroll from 122 million to 118 million and then is willing to maintain the normal trade deadline flexibility like he has done in the past, then this isn't really news at all. It's not at all unreasonable to think that Attanasio did stretch the budget last year based on the historical numbers so a little belt-tightening shouldn't be that surprising or alarming.


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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#42

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:05 PM Post
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Posts: 993
turborickey said:
You all sound like a bunch of blow-hards!

Original poster, yeah we know all about him and his shenanigans, but those who are acting like you know for 100% sure what is going to happen with payroll, signings, etc. are no better.

Let's just see what happens...


Umm, history is on the side of those who are expecting significant additions to come. The complainers fearing that nothing is going to happen are batting a tidy .000 when factoring in offseasons and trade deadlines. It's like some here have the memories of goldfish or something.


Last edited by True Blue Brew Crew on December 02, 2019, 8:13 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#43

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:06 PM Post
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Posts: 10020
turborickey said:
You all sound like a bunch of blow-hards!

Original poster, yeah we know all about him and his shenanigans, but those who are acting like you know for 100% sure what is going to happen with payroll, signings, etc. are no better.

Let's just see what happens...


That's kinda my whole point. It's Dec. 2. The season doesn't start tomorrow.

Yes, no one knows what the plan is. It can be educationally inferred, though, that they aren't going to sit on their hands, or sign a bum like Logan Forsythe to be their starting 1B.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#44

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:07 PM Post
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Posts: 10820
True Blue Brew Crew said:
turborickey said:
You all sound like a bunch of blow-hards!

Original poster, yeah we know all about him and his shenanigans, but those who are acting like you know for 100% sure what is going to happen with payroll, signings, etc. are no better.

Let's just see what happens...


Umm, history is on the side of those who are expecting significant additions to come. The complainers (like you presumably) fearing that nothing is going to happen are batting a tidy .000 when factoring in offseasons and trade deadlines. It's like some here have the memories of goldfish or something.


haven't complained yet, I am taking the wait and see approach.

I think some big moves are still coming, but I can't say for certain that the original poster isn't on to something, nor can the rest of you who are so quick to ridicule him.

we'll see what happens.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#45

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
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Posts: 13804
Location: Milwaukee, WI
The original poster is a dope and continues to prove it each and every post. But yes, please defend him because you’re also not happy with the beginning of the offseason. [rolling eyes]

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#46

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
Posts: 12209
adambr2 said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
SRB said:
I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if they were trying to go below the $120 million opening day payroll they had last year, but they are not cutting payroll down to $60 million the year after a playoffs appearance and in Yelich's prime [laughing]


So they are cutting payroll then, right?? Cutting payroll, is cutting payroll. Instead in Yelich's prime you should be increasing it substantially.


Payroll is fluid every year, it isn't linear. You don't automatically just increase payroll every year. That's just spending for the sake of spending. You spend when the right deals present itself like with Moose and Grandal last year and manage your resources wisely so that you can afford to make those deals when you need to.


What if no right deals present themselves? They can't depend on luck every year. Sometimes you have to make your luck. The Brewers drew 1.1 million more fans than the Reds did last year. Shrinking payroll is an insult to the fans.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#47

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:10 PM Post
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If they really cut their payroll w/o making moves (which i don't believe) will the fans still come out in droves and buy their new Merchadise


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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#48

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:13 PM Post
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Posts: 10020
Brewcrewin07 said:
You're exactly right, because if your honest, what of those things AREN'T true?? You may not like them, or want to hear them, or want to acknowledge how factual those things are, but they are.

So for all of you saying..."there's a lot of off season left yet, relax"...sure there is, but why does he have to wait all off season?? He could be signing guys now just as easily right?? Orrrrr maybe he waits purposely, thinking prices will come down, and then he can get players at "walmart prices". That is EXACTLY why they wait, and in the process, because they are waiting to get players at "their" price, other players that would be coups they maybe could have by spending a bit more, are signing other places. They wait for bargains, plain and simple. No one can spin it any other way. Just because they are a bargain, doesn't mean they will be a substantial help to the ball club, right??


Do me a favor. Go look at how many free agents have signed deals already. Then take a look at how many free agents there actually are. The biggest names didn't sign last season until very late in the process, and none of the big names, other than Grandal, have signed this season. If they are sitting on their hands into February, then complain. Complaining now is kinda crazy.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#49

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:13 PM Post
Posts: 1927
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
To a lot of you it won't matter who they sign, as long as they get them cheap or at a "reasonable" price, it will be a good deal and will help the team, right?? SMH...the #1 thing I have never been able to figure out with sports fans, is why they care so much how someone else spends THEIR own money.

You guys would think bringing in Logan Forsythe to play 1st for a year and Todd Frazier to play 3rd for a year would actually be good moves if they were cheap 1 year deals, only they wouldn't really replace any of what they are losing. But, hey, if it's a bargain, must be a good move, right?? Has no one ever heard of getting what you pay for??


Wow, you are piling up the hot takes tonight.

BS it's not...most of you are all about getting cheap undervalued players that MIGHT produce. Take a look at the non tender thread...a lot are saying they are okay with bringing Arcia back at 1 year for 2.2 million. The guy is trash, he can't hit a lick. But, since he was "cheap" a lot of people are okay with it.

Prime example...once you see what Moose and Grandal signed for, all of a sudden no one wanted them back because they thought the contracts were too rich. But prior to that those same people wanted them back. Okay...so, who can you get for less that will produce as much or more then either of them?? You can get guys, but unless it's a complete flukey year, I can almost guarantee you won't get the same or better production for significantly less. But that's okay with a lot of you, because at least they didn't over pay.

The one year deals have got to stop...at some point you have to have a "core" and a core of all young players with potential isn't going to cut it. It's fine to have some, but you also have to have a corp of veterans that will all be together for awhile too.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#50

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:14 PM Post
Posts: 3829
Where is it written that you have to throw good money after bad or increase your payroll significantly in order to improve the team?

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#51

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:14 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10820
Brew4U said:
The original poster is a dope and continues to prove it each and every post. But yes, please defend him because you’re also not happy with the beginning of the offseason. [rolling eyes]


lol

I'm not defending him as much as I am defending the attack on a poster for his opinion, even if it is pretty far off base.

You lumping me into his thought process is asinine.

I am not unhappy with anything that has happened, I don't see the sky as falling. Actually, that is not totally true. I wanted Moose back, it makes me unhappy he left, but no way should we or could we pay him what he got from the Reds. I'm sad he is gone, but that is the ay it rolls, happy we didn't pay him that contract. Also unhappy we let Jimmy Nelson go and really hope we get him back at a cheaper price.

As I have said, I am going to play the waiting game. I'm going to sit back and see what transpires before passing judgement on anyone, from David Stearns right down to any of the dopey posters on this board.

Plenty of time for things to happen, or not happen.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#52

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:14 PM Post
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Posts: 993
turborickey said:
haven't complained yet, I am taking the wait and see approach.

I think some big moves are still coming, but I can't say for certain that the original poster isn't on to something, nor can the rest of you who are so quick to ridicule him.

we'll see what happens.


Edited my post to reflect your not being in the sky is falling group.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#53

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:16 PM Post
Posts: 1927
So they are cutting payroll then, right?? Cutting payroll, is cutting payroll. Instead in Yelich's prime you should be increasing it substantially.[/quote]

Payroll is fluid every year, it isn't linear. You don't automatically just increase payroll every year. That's just spending for the sake of spending. You spend when the right deals present itself like with Moose and Grandal last year and manage your resources wisely so that you can afford to make those deals when you need to.[/quote]

What if no right deals present themselves? They can't depend on luck every year. Sometimes you have to make your luck. The Brewers drew 1.1 million more fans than the Reds did last year. Shrinking payroll is an insult to the fans.[/quote]

Bingo! He who hesitates finishes last. He nailed it, you can't always depend on the "right deal" falling in your lap and if it doesn't just shrug your shoulders and move on to the nexxt cheap option. How about being agressive once in awhile, and as Briggs says, making your own luck??


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#54

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:17 PM Post
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Posts: 8450
Brewcrewin07 said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Brewcrewin07 said:
To a lot of you it won't matter who they sign, as long as they get them cheap or at a "reasonable" price, it will be a good deal and will help the team, right?? SMH...the #1 thing I have never been able to figure out with sports fans, is why they care so much how someone else spends THEIR own money.

You guys would think bringing in Logan Forsythe to play 1st for a year and Todd Frazier to play 3rd for a year would actually be good moves if they were cheap 1 year deals, only they wouldn't really replace any of what they are losing. But, hey, if it's a bargain, must be a good move, right?? Has no one ever heard of getting what you pay for??


Wow, you are piling up the hot takes tonight.

BS it's not...most of you are all about getting cheap undervalued players that MIGHT produce. Take a look at the non tender thread...a lot are saying they are okay with bringing Arcia back at 1 year for 2.2 million. The guy is trash, he can't hit a lick. But, since he was "cheap" a lot of people are okay with it.

Prime example...once you see what Moose and Grandal signed for, all of a sudden no one wanted them back because they thought the contracts were too rich. But prior to that those same people wanted them back. Okay...so, who can you get for less that will produce as much or more then either of them?? You can get guys, but unless it's a complete flukey year, I can almost guarantee you won't get the same or better production for significantly less. But that's okay with a lot of you, because at least they didn't over pay.

The one year deals have got to stop...at some point you have to have a "core" and a core of all young players with potential isn't going to cut it. It's fine to have some, but you also have to have a corp of veterans that will all be together for awhile too.


I'm not sure you have a realistic concept in mind for how to actually build a Brewers roster, and certainly not one that can compete on a regular basis. Not all 26 spots can be filled with guys who mash. And there isn't some unlimited bankroll that can pay for all of this. I think your expectations need to be adjusted considerably. Bad contracts pile up and prevent you from actually having good players on your roster. That's why people don't want Moose at age 34 making 18 million or whatever. You can't just write blank checks without consequences.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#55

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:17 PM Post
Posts: 290
No idea what the plan is, but whatever it is we need to add like 12 guys capable of playing MLB baseball next year. Half of which (maybe more) need to be capable of starting in some capacity.


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Online  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#56

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:19 PM Post
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Posts: 993
There were players literally signed after the season started last year. You don't have to count on players falling into your lap. This isn't going to be the first ever free agency that wraps up on December 3rd. These aren't things that should need to be pointed out to adults.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#57

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:19 PM Post
Posts: 1052
Brewcrewin07 said:
To a lot of you it won't matter who they sign, as long as they get them cheap or at a "reasonable" price, it will be a good deal and will help the team, right?? SMH...the #1 thing I have never been able to figure out with sports fans, is why they care so much how someone else spends THEIR own money.


You know why, really. But I'll spell it out anyway: None of us really care about Mark Attanasios' or any MLB owners' money. But these owners will have a limit on how much a team can spend (That limit could probably be higher for almost every team without making a loss, but that's another debate), and if you spend $20m on a player worth $15m, that's $5m you can't use to make the team better. Similarly, if the team signs a $10m AAV free agent who absolutely bombs and contributes absoutely nothing, then that doesn't mean that Mark A will increase the budget by $10m/year to make up for it. No, the budget that DS has to field a team with will in that case likely go down by $10m.

So fans care about spending because we want to see the team win, and getting as many good players as possible for the limited money available means more wins for the team. So yes, value matters.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#58

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:22 PM Post
Posts: 2721
The Brewers' Opening Day payroll this year was their largest ever by a respectable chunk. Dropping a bit isn't the same as what "cutting payroll" implies.

I'm not thrilled with all the non-tenders (except Saladino) -- I would've thought that retaining a couple of those guys would result in the Brewers having at least a few more possible trade chips to play -- but Stearns has proven to have a pretty darn good idea what he's doing since he got here, and that includes some mostly strong cost-to-value/production decisions. I'm sure Stearns has a solid game plan. . . .

By no means does it guarantee anything, but a) we're hardly 5 weeks into the off-season, and b) Stearns' overall track record encourages at least some faith & patience (Cain-Yelich Day was January 25th, after all, & the Moose and Grandal signings were appreciably later than that).


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#59

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:24 PM Post
Posts: 1927
True Blue Brew Crew said:
There were players literally signed after the season started last year. You don't have to count on players falling into your lap. This isn't going to be the first ever free agency that wraps up on December 3rd. These aren't things that should need to be pointed out to adults.


This isn't NOT true...however this year is a bit different in that they need so many players now...you can't wait until right before spring training to fill 12 spots for example. What you say above is fine if you only really need one or two players to fill out your roster(or just depth pieces)...However this year the Brewers need a starting catcher, at least one TOR arm and also another starter, a 1B, a competent SS, a 3B, a couple of bullpen arms at minimum. That's a lot of positions to fill and isn't it reasonable to assume that the longer you wait, the less likely it is you get your top targets at those particular spots. Don't "settle" be aggressive, go get the guys you want and get it done.


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Offline  Re: Truth comes out...what many of us feared..planning on cutting payroll
#60

Posted: December 02, 2019, 8:25 PM Post
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Posts: 8450
We've let the discussion go on quite a ways here, let's remember to be civil, please.


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