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2020 Roster Turn Over

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Offline  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#21

Posted: December 02, 2019, 11:24 PM Post
Posts: 3786
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#22

Posted: December 02, 2019, 11:27 PM Post
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SeaBass said:
My take is that if anyone has any confidence at all in Stearns then instead of being worried we should be really excited for the moves to come. This is a blank canvas, I'm not seeing the downside.


Exactly. The defeatist attitudes are out in full force, but they are totally unwarranted. Nothing in Stearns' history with this team suggests that he's going to spend the rest of the offseason sitting on his hands or signing the likes of Logan Forsythe and handing them major roles.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#23

Posted: December 03, 2019, 12:36 AM Post
Posts: 909
Location: Oshkosh
So far so good. I think just about every non-tender has been standard. I'm definitely fine with not getting tied down to a long contract with Moose or Grandal. We've got a GM that's lead us to a good amount of success so far and he's got a bunch of money to play around with. Time to build.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#24

Posted: December 03, 2019, 3:18 AM Post
Posts: 2396
I don't see why people seem to be in 2 camps. Rebuild and All in? There are more options. I want them to spend responsibly and add a lot of small pieces who their metrics see upside in. Not committ long term to anyone that isn't a superstar and if this is a lull year so be it. There are a lot of questions with this team and 2021 2022 have to be the all in years. Keeping Yelich south of 40mil a year seems nearly impossible.

The thing people don't seem to get is that this team hasn't gotten from year 1 of DS to here by signing big name FAs. They've got to this point by winning trades and signing guys who we look at like they are scraps and then they become regulars right before our eyes. Thames Aguilar were cast-offs. Shaw prospect glow was fading. Miley was laughed about when they added him. Chacin wasn't expected to put up 3.5. Jeffress was sub 2 mil and a beast. All of it is short lived, but DS seems to be able to see the guy who is a small tinker away from a career year. So do that, develop the farm, and pay short term FAs who are about to be much more valuable than anyone thought. You'll hit some, you'll miss some but if you play the numbers game it should settle out in your favor. It was wildly successful in 2018 and fell flat in 2019. They still made the playoffs with deadline additions that people complained about. Wash Rinse Repeat.

People look at this the wrong way. Awe we lost Grandal and Moose. The real story is how in the heck did we get them on 1 year deals in the first place? Both got 4 year deals that look murky 2 years down the road. They didn't give up a lot for Pom and Black. They didn't give up much for Swarzak. Then he got paid, oops! Embrace being that franchise that scoops up the overlooked and watches them earn a deal that commits to them far too long. The rest of the league can jump on the grenade 2 years into the future. We got the 1 year value contract.

I play in some fairly deep FF leagues. I've had years where I go all in. I've had years where I sell off playoff guys while adding in low value expiring guys as I try to win but build forward. I've had years where I blow it up, or blow half of it up and rest the core/spending structure of the team. There are many angles in a simple dynasty FF league, I'm sure their analytics have found many more in something as dynamic as a MLB franchise. But it's truly not that different. It's just far more important to far more people. I enjoy watching guys I bought for $1/1 going back to auction the next year and getting paid $60/3. DS seems to be fantastic at that, play to your strengths. Maybe it only looks that way because he does it in such high volume, but either way its paying off.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#25

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:05 AM Post
Posts: 543
sveumrules said:
Old players are boring.

The mystery of potential new players is much more exciting.


[laughing]


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#26

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:09 AM Post
Posts: 543
3and2Fastball said:
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...


I have been thinking of this as well. What players out there would be potential targets in trades where we would take on a large salary? I have seen Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor being thrown around in rumors. Any others?


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#27

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:28 AM Post
Posts: 12542
It isn't warranted yet, but it is fair to wonder how the money will be spent. I think most figured Grandal or Moustakas would return...or to a lesser extent Pomeranz. Now all three guys are gone plus we have cut payroll every other possible way we could to this point. Is Stearns really going to sign a Donaldson or Wheeler? If we don't and payroll is down how is the fanbase going to react to that? They just renamed the stadium which most of the fanbase was pretty upset about and claimed it would bring in more money. They just did a full rebranding which will be an huge increase in revenue the next few years. Then of course a new TV deal is either being done or about to be done which will really be a sizable bump in revenue (though to be fair the casual fans probably don't know this). Even worse what if the team doesn't seriously compete next year? Some of the reactions on here aren't a minority, they are very "casual fan" type takes that a large part of the Miller Park crowd feel the same way about.

Like I said, personally all these moves independently I am okay with...assuming we are about to spend some cash. Even if we don't the only one I would really be upset with is Nelson just because if we had the payroll space he was worth rolling the dice on (and I am not a big Nelson fan after last years showing). I would say Shaw to a lesser extent, but I don't think he has wanted to be here since halfway through last season, fans almost hate him now, and he truly was terrible in 2019. I doubt Shaw would have rebounded here. I thought Guerra was decent last year, but hardly a huge loss and maybe we can bring him back cheaper if we want to.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#28

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:36 AM Post
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Mark A wants to win very bad IMO and with the Rebrand and all the fans that came to the park to see a playoff club, its hard to see them taking a step back. It only Dec 3 and their still plenty of time for David to put together a playoff caliber club.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#29

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:39 AM Post
Posts: 543
MrTPlush said:
It isn't warranted yet, but it is fair to wonder how the money will be spent. I think most figured Grandal or Moustakas would return...or to a lesser extent Pomeranz. Now all three guys are gone plus we have cut payroll every other possible way we could to this point. Is Stearns really going to sign a Donaldson or Wheeler? If we don't and payroll is down how is the fanbase going to react to that? They just renamed the stadium which most of the fanbase was pretty upset about and claimed it would bring in more money. They just did a full rebranding which will be an huge increase in revenue the next few years. Then of course a new TV deal is either being done or about to be done which will really be a sizable bump in revenue (though to be fair the casual fans probably don't know this). Even worse what if the team doesn't seriously compete next year? Some of the reactions on here aren't a minority, they are very "casual fan" type takes that a large part of the Miller Park crowd feel the same way about.

Like I said, personally all these moves independently I am okay with...assuming we are about to spend some cash. Even if we don't the only one I would really be upset with is Nelson just because if we had the payroll space he was worth rolling the dice on (and I am not a big Nelson fan after last years showing). I would say Shaw to a lesser extent, but I don't think he has wanted to be here since halfway through last season, fans almost hate him now, and he truly was terrible in 2019. I doubt Shaw would have rebounded here. I thought Guerra was decent last year, but hardly a huge loss and maybe we can bring him back cheaper if we want to.


Stearns has preached depth since day 1 of becoming our GM. Since the Brewers do not have much minor league talent and we still have 9 spots to fill on the 40 man roster, I think we will see a lot of mid to low tier signings just for depth. We might bring in one bigger free agent but the majority is going to be depth.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on Donaldson or Rendon. Yes, they will be expensive and I think Rendon for sure will sign a $200+ million contract, but hitters are more of a sure thing than pitchers and Stearns will want to limit the downside if he is giving out that kind of money.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#30

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:40 AM Post
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jonescm128 said:
3and2Fastball said:
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...


I have been thinking of this as well. What players out there would be potential targets in trades where we would take on a large salary? I have seen Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor being thrown around in rumors. Any others?


Brandon Belt and Evan Longoria strike me as potential targets. Kyle Seager maybe. Mark Trumbo I guess.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#31

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:44 AM Post
Posts: 12542
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
jonescm128 said:
3and2Fastball said:
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...


I have been thinking of this as well. What players out there would be potential targets in trades where we would take on a large salary? I have seen Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor being thrown around in rumors. Any others?


Brandon Belt and Evan Longoria strike me as potential targets. Kyle Seager maybe. Mark Trumbo I guess.


If we sign Mark Trumbo to start, my entire 20 pack is going in the trash.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#32

Posted: December 03, 2019, 8:52 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:

If we sign Mark Trumbo to start, my entire 20 pack is going in the trash.


I hate the idea as well, but was just looking for high-priced guys that crappy teams may be looking to offload.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#33

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:01 AM Post
Posts: 12542
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:

If we sign Mark Trumbo to start, my entire 20 pack is going in the trash.


I hate the idea as well, but was just looking for high-priced guys that crappy teams may be looking to offload.


I think they would have to be useful players. Trumbo is Trasho, but he doesn't matter because I am almost positive he is a FA.

Seager sounded like a good idea until I saw all of his production was literally in the month of August. Belt doesn't interest me even slightly as he is not anywhere near good for a 1B. Sure, they could add to the deal to make it worth it for us, but who are they adding that is MLB ready just to unload salary. Those kind of deals are hard to make happen and really hard to make sense.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#34

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:03 AM Post
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Just saw that the Mets are looking to package Jed Lowrie or Jeurys Familia in a deal with a guy like Dom Smith or J.D. Davis for salary relief. Could be an option.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#35

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:04 AM Post
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jonescm128 said:
3and2Fastball said:
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...


I have been thinking of this as well. What players out there would be potential targets in trades where we would take on a large salary? I have seen Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor being thrown around in rumors. Any others?

A few that come to mind that shouldn’t cost much in terms of trade value if a team were willing to take on their remaining contracts...

Corey Kluber (1 year at $17.5 million with a team option for $18 million in 2021 or a $1 million buyout)
Jean Segura (4 years and $45.5 million)
Kyle Seager (3 years and $54 million)


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Offline  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#36

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:06 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
MrTPlush said:

If we sign Mark Trumbo to start, my entire 20 pack is going in the trash.


I hate the idea as well, but was just looking for high-priced guys that crappy teams may be looking to offload.


Interesting thought. "We will take your high priced guy off your hands but in order to do so we will also require a prospect".

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#37

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:09 AM Post
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Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Just saw that the Mets are looking to package Jed Lowrie or Jeurys Familia in a deal with a guy like Dom Smith or J.D. Davis for salary relief. Could be an option.

I have a feeling the Mets are desperate to unload some payroll in order to make moves this winter, so this seems like a possible match with the Brewers.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#38

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:09 AM Post
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If we took on Wil Myers and his contract to play 1B for us, we could probably make Padres add in a couple of blue chip prospects as well.

Interesting idea for us to re-stock the farm.

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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#39

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:10 AM Post
Posts: 606
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
jonescm128 said:
3and2Fastball said:
I find it perplexing that anyone would look at the moves so far and surmise that we are rebuilding.

It seems clear that they are freeing up payroll space in order to sign a free agent 3B & free agent Pitchers and/or trade for expensive players...


I have been thinking of this as well. What players out there would be potential targets in trades where we would take on a large salary? I have seen Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor being thrown around in rumors. Any others?


Brandon Belt and Evan Longoria strike me as potential targets. Kyle Seager maybe. Mark Trumbo I guess.


I can't imagine Stearns would even think of Longoria or Trumbo. Longoria is owed $58M over the next three years and on the downside of his career. Way too expensive for his production. Trumbo was hurt again last year and is a DH. No value at all. Belt is scheduled to make $34.5M in the next two years. Again way too expensive for his production. Seager is going to make $38-41M in the next two years. None of these guys are even worth considering unless their teams ate a lot of money just to get rid of them and the prospects going to them were low level.


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Online  Re: 2020 Roster Turn Over
#40

Posted: December 03, 2019, 9:19 AM Post
Posts: 606
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Just saw that the Mets are looking to package Jed Lowrie or Jeurys Familia in a deal with a guy like Dom Smith or J.D. Davis for salary relief. Could be an option.


I would definitely be in on a deal for Lowrie and Davis/Smith if Stearns could pull it off. It would fill a big need and a very good utility man for not a lot of money. No thanks on Familia. He is going to make $24M over the next two years and he's been horrific out of the pen.


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