LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1, 2  [ 39 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million

Author Message
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#21

Posted: December 04, 2019, 12:52 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 596
Location: Chicago
It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s perspective. A super majority of teams have payroll in excess of 100 million. A third of the teams are closer to 200 million than 100 million. Viewed in that context a payroll of 126 million+ isn’t that significant


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#22

Posted: December 04, 2019, 12:56 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10234
Jopal78! said:
It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s perspective. A super majority of teams have payroll in excess of 100 million. A third of the teams are closer to 200 million than 100 million. Viewed in that context a payroll of 126 million+ isn’t that significant


$136 million. Not sure why you keep changing the number to suit the narrative, but it's not a good look.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#23

Posted: December 04, 2019, 1:14 PM Post
User avatar
Global Moderator
Posts: 2806
Jopal78! said:
It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s perspective. A super majority of teams have payroll in excess of 100 million. A third of the teams are closer to 200 million than 100 million. Viewed in that context a payroll of 126 million+ isn’t that significant


We have one of the worst tv contracts in baseball...

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-t ... mlb-teams/

...likely a result of being in one of the smallest markets in all of pro sports...

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-ma ... n-ratings/

...so my perspective is that having a league average payroll...

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2019/

...despite the aforementioned constraints is pretty impressive.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#24

Posted: December 04, 2019, 1:19 PM Post
Posts: 4983
sveumrules said:
Jopal78! said:
It’s not moving the goal posts, it’s perspective. A super majority of teams have payroll in excess of 100 million. A third of the teams are closer to 200 million than 100 million. Viewed in that context a payroll of 126 million+ isn’t that significant


We have one of the worst tv contracts in baseball...

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-t ... mlb-teams/

...likely a result of being in one of the smallest markets in all of pro sports...

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-ma ... n-ratings/

...so my perspective is that having a league average payroll...

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2019/

...despite the aforementioned constraints is pretty impressive.


That's perspective, btw


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#25

Posted: December 04, 2019, 1:27 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 13999
Location: Milwaukee, WI
sveumrules said:

We have one of the worst tv contracts in baseball...

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-t ... mlb-teams/

...likely a result of being in one of the smallest markets in all of pro sports...

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-ma ... n-ratings/

...so my perspective is that having a league average payroll...

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2019/

...despite the aforementioned constraints is pretty impressive.


Can this post be pinned atop every single damn thread we have around here?

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#26

Posted: December 04, 2019, 6:20 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 6402
Jopal78! said:
KeithStone53151 said:
Agreed on Keuchel. I'm glad the Brewers didn't go for this. I think we can find a better deal than this. Heck I think Lyles > Hamels at this point.


Come on! Take off the Brewers colored glasses. Hamels has been a top tier starting pitcher in the major leagues for over a decade. Not only does he have the track record Hamels had the better season last year under any objective standard.

Hamels 2019:
1st half: 17 GS, 99.2 IP, .659 OPS-A, 8.8 K/9, 2.77 K/BB
2nd half: 10 GS, 42 IP, .903 OPS-A, 9.9 K/9, 2.19 K/BB
Total: 27 GS, 141.2 IP, .740 OPS-A, 1.391 WHIP, 9.1 K/9, 2.55 K/BB

Lyles 2019:
1st half: 14 GS, 74.1 IP, .764 OPS-A, 9.4 K/9, 2.89 K/BB
2nd half: 14 GS, 66.2 IP, .770 OPS-A, 9.2 K/9, 2.43 K/BB
Total: 28 GS, 141 IP, .767 OPS-A, 1.319 WHIP, 9.3 K/9, 2.65 K/BB

By this standard, they are pretty close to the same pitcher. All thing being equal, I'll take the guy who is seven years younger, didn't fade down the stretch, and costs >$10M less.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#27

Posted: December 04, 2019, 8:23 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 10098
I again be happy with Lyles and Dallas in the rotation.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#28

Posted: February 12, 2020, 11:51 AM Post
Posts: 4983
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28685366/braves-lefty-cole-hamels-shoulder-discomfort

Not exactly a good start to 2020 for Mr. Hamels...who'd of though a late 30's starter with a ton of tread on the tires that has shown a propensity to getting injured the past 2-3 seasons isn't worth an $18M flyer? It could be some weird way of avoiding a chunk of spring training by a cagy vet...but it's likely that the Braves aren't going to get their money's worth out of this signing.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#29

Posted: February 12, 2020, 11:56 AM Post
Posts: 5528
Location: New Berlin, WI
And it's a shoulder too, which is seriously awful news for an older guy. The good news for the Braves, they have so much pitching in their upper minors that they won't miss a beat if he misses time.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#30

Posted: February 12, 2020, 11:58 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 394
Fear The Chorizo said:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28685366/braves-lefty-cole-hamels-shoulder-discomfort

Not exactly a good start to 2020 for Mr. Hamels...who'd of though a late 30's starter with a ton of tread on the tires that has shown a propensity to getting injured the past 2-3 seasons isn't worth an $18M flyer? It could be some weird way of avoiding a chunk of spring training by a cagy vet...but it's likely that the Braves aren't going to get their money's worth out of this signing.


Time for a these huge starting pitching prospects that baseball fans have been told the Braves organization is flush with to step up, I guess.

It would seem to me that, perhaps, the Braves organization's reputation for developing starters in-house has been vastly overrated, as they keep globbing on to these type of Hamels-type acquisitions, and subsequently getting burned by them, year after year.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#31

Posted: February 12, 2020, 12:10 PM Post
Posts: 760
Braves always have highly praised pitching prospects. Few ever do anything positive in the pros.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#32

Posted: February 12, 2020, 1:28 PM Post
Posts: 5006
ThisIsMyCrew said:
Braves always have highly praised pitching prospects. Few ever do anything positive in the pros.


Which makes them a slightly better bet than stock in Theranos.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#33

Posted: February 12, 2020, 9:18 PM Post
Posts: 8172
ThisIsMyCrew said:
Braves always have highly praised pitching prospects. Few ever do anything positive in the pros.


Tom Glavine, Kevin Millwood, Adam Wainwright, Jurggens had a few good years...that's just a few. Any in recent years?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#34

Posted: February 13, 2020, 9:56 AM Post
Posts: 2014
Location: Madison, WI
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#35

Posted: February 13, 2020, 10:14 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 394
JosephC said:
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


That's fine, but the Brewers have never been floated as an organization that is adept at developing pitching. Quite the opposite, actually. The Braves have ... for decades. Yet it seems year after year they are going out and signing starters off the scrap heap, or overpaying for has-beens, while their home-grown young hyped guys flame out. All I'm saying is that there is an obvious perception out there that the Braves organization as a whole is both terrific at developing pitching talent, and that they have a plethora of future Ace-type pitchers at their disposal, both of which, when looking at the evidence and the personnel moves they make, seems to be a somewhat substantial media fabrication.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#36

Posted: February 13, 2020, 10:59 AM Post
Posts: 5528
Location: New Berlin, WI
JosephC said:
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


The Brewers have been getting better when it comes to developing pitching over the last handful of years. Previously it was pretty bad, but we have a number of home grown or mostly home grown arms in the majors right now. Woodruff, Burnes, Suter, Devin Williams, Taylor Williams, Trey Supak. Then there's Hader, Houser, and Peralta who were mostly home grown...started elsewhere but were mostly developed by us.

I'm not going to argue we're as good as the Braves(even though the Braves had a ton of high 1st round picks to develop, better chance of success), but I think it's safe to say we're getting significantly better at developing pitching.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#37

Posted: February 14, 2020, 8:14 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 11190
JosephC said:
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


It does suck that we haven't developed more but it also sucks that every time we do develop a good one they get hurt. Sheets got abused in a year where we had no chance to win and was never fully healthy after it. Gallardo's career was derailed by his injury his first season and he never fully regained his mechanics. Nelson was just breaking out when he wrecked himself running the bases. It really bothers me more how few RP's we have developed. It is hard to develop starters but you should be raining relievers.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#38

Posted: February 15, 2020, 12:05 AM Post
Posts: 5006
JosephC said:
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


Then again, the Bears were all about their defense and running game. You think Bears offense, you think Walter Payton, Neal Anderson, Matt Forte, Gale Sayers, Bronko Nagurski, Red Grange. All running backs.

Then on defense, it's easy to name names: Butkus, Hampton, Dent, Singletary, Urlacher...

This isn't to say that the Brewers starting pitching won't have good years - the Bears had some QBs have good seasons at times. But the bread and butter was always running backs and a dominant defense.

Kind of like the Brewers have always been about offense and the bullpen more than their starting pitching. Doesn't mean good starters don't emerge, but it's always been more about the offense and the relievers.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: LHP Cole Hamels to Braves - 1 year, $18 million
#39

Posted: February 15, 2020, 2:53 PM Post
Posts: 4509
Ennder said:
JosephC said:
Mike Soroka was terrible last year. 2.68 ERA, 3.45 FIP, 169 ERA+, 3.46 K/BB. I would have expected a lot more out of a 21 year old.

I always get a kick when Brewer fans bad mouth other team's pitching. Even a guy like Julio Teheran. Bring his name up and most Brewer fans would probably say "over-rated, mediocre, never lived up to his billing." But taking the bWAR he posted for the Braves, put him in a Brewer uniform and it would be the third best bWAR in FRANCHISE HISTORY.

Speaking as a Brewer fan...and it's completely discouraging to say this...but history shows that Brewer starting pitching is just about the equivalent to Chicago Bears quarterbacking. Uugghh. I'd gladly take a whole bunch of those over-rated Braves pitching prospects.


It does suck that we haven't developed more but it also sucks that every time we do develop a good one they get hurt. Sheets got abused in a year where we had no chance to win and was never fully healthy after it. Gallardo's career was derailed by his injury his first season and he never fully regained his mechanics. Nelson was just breaking out when he wrecked himself running the bases. It really bothers me more how few RP's we have developed. It is hard to develop starters but you should be raining relievers.


Going back further Cal Eldred and Teddy Higuera both had promising careers messed up injuries. Eldred was especially disappointing because his problems were so predictable. Not to mention preventable. He pitched 258 innings over 36 starts (both league highs) in his second major league season. He was never the same again.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1, 2  [ 39 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brewcrewdue80, brewguy03, folly412, gebc1997, MadScientist, Oxy, Team Canada, yfinn6 and 15 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test