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One step closer to automated strike zone?

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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#21

Posted: December 23, 2019, 5:30 PM Post
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TJseven7 said:
LouisEly said:
My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.


My god no. Please no more challenges with vague wording so that you can disregard making a change when you are wrong but almost not wrong.

Let the machine call every pitch. If you do that and have a few challenges for plays around the diamond, they should be about as good as we can get.

In behavioral psychology it's called "escalation of commitment" - it's easier to get people to commit to smaller steps one at a time than it is one big step. By taking a smaller step first - still giving umpires control while having the technology to change the bad calls in critical situations - it's easier to get commitment to the steps. People can get used to the technology in a smaller role while they work the kinks out; then once people are comfortable with the smaller step and the kinks get worked out, take a bigger step.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#22

Posted: December 23, 2019, 9:00 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
Ennder said:
jerichoholicninja said:
I just can't understand why the umpires have been so against this. No one is losing jobs. You still need an umpire behind the plate to relay the calls and call plays at that plate not to mention you still need the other 3 guys on the field. You take the thing that they are most criticized for out of their hands and with it almost all of the chirping and jawing from players, coaches, and fans that still exists. Just seems like wins all around unless their collective ego is so huge they can't deal with it.


For now they need to be behind the plate. But this is likely the first step towards reducing the overall number of umps needed on a baseball field. I am not surprised they want to slow it down. I'm all for them making the change though, I just get why the umps are against it.


You are always going to need an umpire behind the plate. Quick plays there are rare but happen. A guy tries to steal home on a pitch are you expecting the 3b umpire to sprint down to make the call? Bunts in front of the plate, batters fouling balls off their feet, catchers interference, etc. Not to mention on some balls hit to the outfield one of the field umpires will run out to see if it's catch or a homerun. Take the home plate ump away and you leave two guys on the infield. There will always be a need for a home plate ump.


I never said there would not be. I said there would be fewer on the field. If the home plate ump isn't so focused on the balls and strikes they can replace one of the other umps on the field. Robot umps will eventually reduce the total umps on the field.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#23

Posted: December 23, 2019, 10:21 PM Post
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Personally, I'd love an automated strike zone. Yes, it would be work implementing it. And yes, you'd have to tweak existing rules so they conform to exactly how we want the strike to be defined. But you can do methodically, and make sure the system you want is implemented in the manner everyone is comfortable with.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#24

Posted: December 23, 2019, 11:57 PM Post
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I just think having a “Gameday” pitch tracking animation on the scoreboard is going to be awesome and greatly enhance the experience in person at the ballpark. When a pitcher throws a great pitch the fans are going to know right away. Whereas right now if the umpire calls a strike on the corner the fans have no idea if it was a good pitch or a bad call.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#25

Posted: December 26, 2019, 4:14 PM Post
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Ennder said:
I never said there would not be. I said there would be fewer on the field. If the home plate ump isn't so focused on the balls and strikes they can replace one of the other umps on the field. Robot umps will eventually reduce the total umps on the field.


Sorry, I don't see any way an automated strikezone will lead to fewer umpires on the field. Each position has specific responsibilities and taking balls and strikes away from the homeplate umpire is not going to have any affect on the rest of them.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#26

Posted: December 28, 2019, 9:15 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
Ennder said:
I never said there would not be. I said there would be fewer on the field. If the home plate ump isn't so focused on the balls and strikes they can replace one of the other umps on the field. Robot umps will eventually reduce the total umps on the field.


Sorry, I don't see any way an automated strikezone will lead to fewer umpires on the field. Each position has specific responsibilities and taking balls and strikes away from the homeplate umpire is not going to have any affect on the rest of them.


Of course it will. In the minors they only use 2 umps, you don't need to have 4. If the home plate umpire is not focusing on balls and strikes they can easily do the job of the right field or left field ump as well as their own. Most likely it would be the 3rd base umpire that gets replaced with the field ump tending to slide towards 3B when it looks like a play could go that way.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#27

Posted: December 29, 2019, 3:37 AM Post
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There is a zero percent chance the number of umpires will be reduced. If anything, a 5th umpire will be added to monitor the electronic balls and strikes and to serve as an eye in the sky.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#28

Posted: December 29, 2019, 9:00 AM Post
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Ennder said:
.... In the minors they only use 2 umps, you don't need to have 4. .....


I think you want to double check that. It depends on the level. From a 2005 NY Time article about minor league umpiring (and progressing to the majors)
"Class AA, in fact, is viewed as the make-it-or-break-it level of pro baseball, for umpires as well as for players. It is the only level at which three-man umpiring crews are used. (The grades below, rookie leagues and A ball, use two-man crews; Class AAA and, of course, the majors, use four.)"

I did a quick audit of regular season box scores from AAA & AA and found 3 man crews at both levels..


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#29

Posted: September 24, 2020, 5:55 PM Post
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I don't really want the automated strike zone. I feel the umpires are being told to call strikes based on a two dimensional rectangle on a monitor and that is how they are judged. It started with "back door" sliders which were not strikes. Think about it - if the catcher catches that pitch at the very limit of the line how can it be a strike? It had to have curved around the strike zone while at the plate. Now they are calling curve balls barely touching the top line as strikes even though they had to have been above the actual strike zone.

I feel this is really impacting the hitters as they have to swing at pitches which would have been balls in previous years. These pitches are often essentially unhittable. This is being done to "speed up" the game. But speed of play was never a problem until MLB mandated minimum times between innings. They should just get rid of these minimum times and go back to the old way of doing it. Commercials can be run side by side with play like they do it in golf and some other sports. This alone would save about a half hour every game.

Let the umpires call games based on the actual strike zone.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#30

Posted: September 24, 2020, 7:55 PM Post
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WV Brew said:
I don't really want the automated strike zone. I feel the umpires are being told to call strikes based on a two dimensional rectangle on a monitor and that is how they are judged. It started with "back door" sliders which were not strikes. Think about it - if the catcher catches that pitch at the very limit of the line how can it be a strike? It had to have curved around the strike zone while at the plate. Now they are calling curve balls barely touching the top line as strikes even though they had to have been above the actual strike zone.

I feel this is really impacting the hitters as they have to swing at pitches which would have been balls in previous years. These pitches are often essentially unhittable. This is being done to "speed up" the game. But speed of play was never a problem until MLB mandated minimum times between innings. They should just get rid of these minimum times and go back to the old way of doing it. Commercials can be run side by side with play like they do it in golf and some other sports. This alone would save about a half hour every game.

Let the umpires call games based on the actual strike zone.


As soon as umpires can do that, the calls for an automated strike zone will stop.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#31

Posted: September 24, 2020, 9:10 PM Post
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WV Brew said:
I don't really want the automated strike zone.

I do appreciate what you’re saying, but let me offer a brief counterpoint...

Image


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#32

Posted: September 24, 2020, 9:34 PM Post
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I would, personally, love an automated strike zone. Would players and coaches and fans have to adjust? Sure. But it's better than having strike zones that change from night to night - or worse yet, inning to inning (or even batter to batter).

For all the frustration it might provide - I would think players would appreciate the consistency - both from the perspective of the hitter and the pitcher.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#33

Posted: September 25, 2020, 10:59 AM Post
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They should do what we did when I was a kid in our games of Strikeout. If the pitch hits the rectangle on the garage door behind the batter, it's a strike.

Also, if the ball makes it to the neighbor's yard on a fly, it's a homer.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#34

Posted: September 25, 2020, 12:27 PM Post
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dlk9s said:
They should do what we did when I was a kid in our games of Strikeout. If the pitch hits the rectangle on the garage door behind the batter, it's a strike.

Also, if the ball makes it to the neighbor's yard on a fly, it's a homer.

Also make it pitcher's hand and get rid of the first baseman. That'll defeat the shift.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#35

Posted: September 25, 2020, 1:30 PM Post
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Ennder said:
For now they need to be behind the plate. But this is likely the first step towards reducing the overall number of umps needed on a baseball field. I am not surprised they want to slow it down. I'm all for them making the change though, I just get why the umps are against it.


I would go in the opposite direction and have more umpire's on the field. Kind of like how the playoffs are ran where you have two OF umpires. I would also expand it even further than that and add one or two umpires for disputed calls. The umpires would then be able to see it in real time and then have the replay to judge safe or out and fair or foul.

You would still need a home plate umpire at all times as you need one to be able to see many of the nuances of the game which includes catcher interference, foul tips, fair and foul balls, a foul ball hit off the foot, bunt attempts, check swings, hit batters by a pitch, relaying the count and outs to the batter catcher and pitcher and safe or out calls at home plate.

There will always be a need for a home plate umpire they just don't need to be calling the balls and strikes anymore. To be fair the home plate umpires job is already one of the more complicated things in baseball as they need to keep track of the lineups and substitutions, calling balls and strikes, calling foul tips, calling foul balls, determining if a batter was hit by a pitch, catcher interference, safe and out calls, balk calls and batters interference.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#36

Posted: September 26, 2020, 9:26 PM Post
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That might be a way to get the umpires union to sign off on an automated ball/strike, add extra umpires like in the playoffs for the regular season.

reillymcshane said:
Remember what Yoda said:

"Cubs lead to Cardinals. Cardinals lead to dislike. Dislike leads to hate. Hate leads to constipation."


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#37

Posted: September 27, 2020, 9:12 AM Post
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Not necessarily strike zone related but if this season of no crowds and hot mics has taught us anything it's the umpires instigate as much if not more confrontations than the players and coaches. That needs to be addressed as much as inconsistent strike zones.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#38

Posted: September 27, 2020, 11:52 AM Post
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Just as I swear Counsell loses all the challenges he should win, and opponents win all the challenges that they shouldn't, this year the Brewers have been victims of their pitchers getting very tight zones while opponents have gotten a lot of umpiring help (except for the Hader strike 3 last night)


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#39

Posted: September 27, 2020, 7:42 PM Post
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Rob Drake. That is all.


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Offline  Re: One step closer to automated strike zone?
#40

Posted: September 27, 2020, 8:27 PM Post
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If the end of the Giants game isn’t reason enough to bring in the robots,I don’t know what is. A 9 iron would have been more useful trying to hit that than a baseball bat


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