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2020 Lineup

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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#61

Posted: February 18, 2020, 1:42 PM Post
Posts: 78
PA by position in 2019: C (706), 1B (697), 2B (699), 3B (706), SS (640), LF (724), CF (750), RF (734), DH (43)

If we used those numbers as a rough guide, depending on batter order construction I could see something along the lines of:

C: Narvaez (450) Pina (250)
1B: Smoak (450) Braun (150) Gyorko (100)
2B: Hiura (550) Sogard (100) Holt (50)
3B: Holt (350) Gyorko (200) Sogard (150)
SS: Urias (400) Sogard (200) Arcia (100)
LF: Yelich (590) Braun (135)
CF: Cain (550), Gamel (200)
RF: Garcia (450) Braun (200) Gamel (75)
DH: Braun (40)

That would put our position players in a nice safe range of PA to stay fresh and healthy throughout the year.

Yelich (590)
Cain (550)
Hiura (550)
Braun (475)
Garcia (450)
Narvaez (450)
Smoak (450)
Sogard (450)
Urias (400)
Holt (400)
Gyorko (300)
Gamel (275)
Pina (250)
Arcia (100)


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#62

Posted: February 18, 2020, 3:02 PM Post
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Posts: 2394
Vollbc74 said:
PA by position in 2019: C (706), 1B (697), 2B (699), 3B (706), SS (640), LF (724), CF (750), RF (734), DH (43)

If we used those numbers as a rough guide, depending on batter order construction I could see something along the lines of:

C: Narvaez (450) Pina (250)
1B: Smoak (450) Braun (150) Gyorko (100)
2B: Hiura (550) Sogard (100) Holt (50)
3B: Holt (350) Gyorko (200) Sogard (150)
SS: Urias (400) Sogard (200) Arcia (100)
LF: Yelich (590) Braun (135)
CF: Cain (550), Gamel (200)
RF: Garcia (450) Braun (200) Gamel (75)
DH: Braun (40)

That would put our position players in a nice safe range of PA to stay fresh and healthy throughout the year.

Yelich (590)
Cain (550)
Hiura (550)
Braun (475)
Garcia (450)
Narvaez (450)
Smoak (450)
Sogard (450)
Urias (400)
Holt (400)
Gyorko (300)
Gamel (275)
Pina (250)
Arcia (100)


I like this kind of breakdown. Realistically I'd bump up Arcia by 100-200 PAs and drop Urias by 100-200 PAs (I think after the injury Urias starts in AAA and stays there until he hits his way up or Arcia hits his way down). I think Braun, Cain, and Hiura are on the heavy end of their usage as well, with Garcia, Gamel, Arcia and Holt taking up a few of those ABs. If Hiura improves his D that will change, of course.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#63

Posted: February 18, 2020, 7:48 PM Post
Posts: 4923
I'm fairly confident that Arcia will spend more than enough days in the minors to push him back to Super 2 status and gain a year of control. Sogard/Urias will be the SS combo upon being healthy Holt fits wherever. Adding Holt with Sogard on the team makes Arcia expendable. He may actually be traded before OD to be honest to a rebuild team who has a RP Stearns likes. Though I just spent like 15min trying to find a rebuild team that could use an Arcia as a bounce back value gain for trade later on, and none were to be found. I honestly wonder if the Brewers removed him from their 40man if he'd be claimed at the moment. How terrible is that? Gotta be one of the top 25 prospects ranked in top 10 who were busts this century. SSs are just abloom right now, all these teams have graduated prospects playing SS for them, or will be this season/next and have a veteran better than Arcia in place. Japan is calling him.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#64

Posted: February 19, 2020, 2:02 AM Post
Posts: 2866
Vollbc74 said:
PA by position in 2019: C (706), 1B (697), 2B (699), 3B (706), SS (640), LF (724), CF (750), RF (734), DH (43)

If we used those numbers as a rough guide, depending on batter order construction I could see something along the lines of:

C: Narvaez (450) Pina (250)
1B: Smoak (450) Braun (150) Gyorko (100)
2B: Hiura (550) Sogard (100) Holt (50)
3B: Holt (350) Gyorko (200) Sogard (150)
SS: Urias (350) Sogard (200) Arcia (100)
LF: Yelich (590) Braun (135)
CF: Cain (550), Gamel (200)
RF: Garcia (450) Braun (200) Gamel (75)
DH: Braun (40)

That would put our position players in a nice safe range of PA to stay fresh and healthy throughout the year.

Yelich (590)
Cain (550)
Hiura (550)
Braun (475)
Garcia (450)
Narvaez (450)
Smoak (450)
Sogard (450)
Holt (400)
Urias (350)
Gyorko (300)
Gamel (275)
Pina (250)
Arcia (100)


You overdid it on the SS. Only 650 PA you had 700. Took 50 off Urias due to injury concerns opening up.

Last year this team had 1253 PA by guys sub 650 OPS. I sure hope Urias 649 Gyorko 730 Gamel 720 Pina 725 Arcia 652 bring that up. Those are their career OPS. So I'm expecting a lot more 700 baseline OPS guys than 650s and below. The only real concern is Arcia and 100 PA is nothing. Even TTaylor and Nottingham could put up 700 stashed in AAA. Who knows about Healy Lomo etc.

Holt was a surprising addition this late and it seems like overkill, but I love me some depth overkill. This team could platoon themselves into having very very few PAs taken by guys sub 700 OPS. A 50 point OPS increase on 2 starters worth of PAs helps us forget Moose and Grandal quick.

If Cain can get back in that 360 OBP range. This'll be a fun offense.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#65

Posted: February 19, 2020, 7:33 AM Post
Posts: 101
brewcrewdue80 said:
I'm fairly confident that Arcia will spend more than enough days in the minors to push him back to Super 2 status and gain a year of control. Sogard/Urias will be the SS combo upon being healthy Holt fits wherever. Adding Holt with Sogard on the team makes Arcia expendable. He may actually be traded before OD to be honest to a rebuild team who has a RP Stearns likes. Though I just spent like 15min trying to find a rebuild team that could use an Arcia as a bounce back value gain for trade later on, and none were to be found. I honestly wonder if the Brewers removed him from their 40man if he'd be claimed at the moment. How terrible is that? Gotta be one of the top 25 prospects ranked in top 10 who were busts this century. SSs are just abloom right now, all these teams have graduated prospects playing SS for them, or will be this season/next and have a veteran better than Arcia in place. Japan is calling him.

He’s already arbitration eligible so the the Brewers cannot gain an extra year of team control. Not sure where you got the idea this was possible.

As for cutting Arcia, I don’t see that as a viable option since he’s still an above average bench player who provides elite level defense and some pop. Regardless if there isn’t a clear fit for him elsewhere I guarantee Stearns could get something of value for him on the trade market. It might only be a lottery ticket prospect or two but it’s still better then letting him go for nothing.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#66

Posted: February 19, 2020, 8:43 AM Post
Posts: 325
bdpecore said:
As for cutting Arcia, I don’t see that as a viable option since he’s still an above average bench player who provides elite level defense and some pop. Regardless if there isn’t a clear fit for him elsewhere I guarantee Stearns could get something of value for him on the trade market. It might only be a lottery ticket prospect or two but it’s still better then letting him go for nothing.


He provides potentially elite defense, but over his career his defense at short isn't very impressive overall.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#67

Posted: February 19, 2020, 9:08 AM Post
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Posts: 1235
Location: Baltimore, MD
Yeah, I think we've been brainwashed into thinking Arcia's a better defender than he is. He definitely passes the eye test well, but I think we just don't realize that there are a ton of really good defenders playing shortstop in the league, so he actually grades out closer to the middle of the pack in that regard.

Then add in how dreadful he's been at the plate (2nd to last out of 34 shortstops with at least 1000 ABs the past three years in both WAR and wRC+, he's also 2nd to last in slugging so I'm not sure the "having some pop" argument holds up either) and I just don't see much of a market for him. The Urias injury may give him one final chance to show something here, but otherwise I think his ship has sailed with the Urias/Sogard acquisitions.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#68

Posted: February 19, 2020, 9:14 AM Post
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Posts: 972
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)

That should provide for a pretty nice bench unit with plenty of guys getting regular ABs to stay fresh. Gamel is the only one where I'm not sure where his PT will really come from besides maybe occasionally starting for Cain in CF


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#69

Posted: February 19, 2020, 11:29 AM Post
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Depending upon Cain's health and production, Gamel could start once a week for Cain and once every 10-12 days or so for Garcia against righties. Then he'd pinch hit almost every game. That would get his PAs up close to 300. If Cain is more like 2018 Cain than 2019 Cain then maybe notso much.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#70

Posted: February 19, 2020, 11:55 AM Post
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Posts: 11231
MVP2110 said:
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)



The way this roster is constructed, I'm fine with that to be honest. I like guys who can play every day typically, but if this is what it has come to, and it maximizes our strengths, GO FOR IT!

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#71

Posted: February 19, 2020, 1:31 PM Post
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Posts: 12054
turborickey said:
MVP2110 said:
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)



The way this roster is constructed, I'm fine with that to be honest. I like guys who can play every day typically, but if this is what it has come to, and it maximizes our strengths, GO FOR IT!


Kinda reminds me of some of Larussa's teams in STL. A couple of bona fides and then platoons up the wazoo.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#72

Posted: February 19, 2020, 2:16 PM Post
Posts: 101
MVP2110 said:
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)

That should provide for a pretty nice bench unit with plenty of guys getting regular ABs to stay fresh. Gamel is the only one where I'm not sure where his PT will really come from besides maybe occasionally starting for Cain in CF


I think Gamel will get the majority of his starts in CF on west coast toad trips since the parks are more spacious. He will also get some play as a late inning defensive replacement and some burn when players are dealing with injuries. I still see him winding up with 200+ at-bats if everything goes right and roughly 350 if the injury bug hits our OFs hard.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#73

Posted: February 19, 2020, 3:14 PM Post
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bdpecore said:
MVP2110 said:
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)

That should provide for a pretty nice bench unit with plenty of guys getting regular ABs to stay fresh. Gamel is the only one where I'm not sure where his PT will really come from besides maybe occasionally starting for Cain in CF


I think Gamel will get the majority of his starts in CF on west coast toad trips since the parks are more spacious. He will also get some play as a late inning defensive replacement and some burn when players are dealing with injuries. I still see him winding up with 200+ at-bats if everything goes right and roughly 350 if the injury bug hits our OFs hard.


I'm sure players will feel different, but I don't really care about how many PAs guys see. If we face a lot of righties in a row, certain players will sit a lot, and then they'll start a few games in a row when we face lefties. Even Braun shouldn't be immune to that this year. He's getting paid a lot, but if it makes more sense to start Garcia/Cain/Yelich in the OF and Smoak at 1B, then Braun should be sitting. A lot of guys on this roster will be sitting more than they're used to. As for Gamel, if he makes the 26-man roster, he should expect to sit most days.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

~Bill Walsh


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#74

Posted: February 19, 2020, 6:05 PM Post
Posts: 101
monty57 said:
bdpecore said:
MVP2110 said:
At this Point I'm thinking it's likely we start the seasons with platoons at C(Narvaez/Pina), 1B(Smoak/Braun) SS(Sogard/Arcia) & 3B(Holt/Gyorko)

That should provide for a pretty nice bench unit with plenty of guys getting regular ABs to stay fresh. Gamel is the only one where I'm not sure where his PT will really come from besides maybe occasionally starting for Cain in CF


I think Gamel will get the majority of his starts in CF on west coast toad trips since the parks are more spacious. He will also get some play as a late inning defensive replacement and some burn when players are dealing with injuries. I still see him winding up with 200+ at-bats if everything goes right and roughly 350 if the injury bug hits our OFs hard.


I'm sure players will feel different, but I don't really care about how many PAs guys see. If we face a lot of righties in a row, certain players will sit a lot, and then they'll start a few games in a row when we face lefties. Even Braun shouldn't be immune to that this year. He's getting paid a lot, but if it makes more sense to start Garcia/Cain/Yelich in the OF and Smoak at 1B, then Braun should be sitting. A lot of guys on this roster will be sitting more than they're used to. As for Gamel, if he makes the 26-man roster, he should expect to sit most days.

On the same note I can see where Keston sits on days Anderson is pitching since he induces an above average number of ground balls which puts a larger emphasis on your infielder abilities to make defensive plays.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#75

Posted: February 19, 2020, 10:45 PM Post
Posts: 4923
bdpecore said:
brewcrewdue80 said:
I'm fairly confident that Arcia will spend more than enough days in the minors to push him back to Super 2 status and gain a year of control. Sogard/Urias will be the SS combo upon being healthy Holt fits wherever. Adding Holt with Sogard on the team makes Arcia expendable. He may actually be traded before OD to be honest to a rebuild team who has a RP Stearns likes. Though I just spent like 15min trying to find a rebuild team that could use an Arcia as a bounce back value gain for trade later on, and none were to be found. I honestly wonder if the Brewers removed him from their 40man if he'd be claimed at the moment. How terrible is that? Gotta be one of the top 25 prospects ranked in top 10 who were busts this century. SSs are just abloom right now, all these teams have graduated prospects playing SS for them, or will be this season/next and have a veteran better than Arcia in place. Japan is calling him.

He’s already arbitration eligible so the the Brewers cannot gain an extra year of team control. Not sure where you got the idea this was possible.

As for cutting Arcia, I don’t see that as a viable option since he’s still an above average bench player who provides elite level defense and some pop. Regardless if there isn’t a clear fit for him elsewhere I guarantee Stearns could get something of value for him on the trade market. It might only be a lottery ticket prospect or two but it’s still better then letting him go for nothing.


When hes in the minors he wont accrue service time. Currently hes in yr 1 of 3 Arbitration. But should his clock lower the amount of days where he doesnt turn the next year. He should be controlled another year. But instead of 3 total arbs he now gets 4. Hes been fairly bad so it doesnt matter much. I believe this was majority of factor creating Super 2. For the players optioned 3 times where their clock didnt gain a year.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#76

Posted: February 20, 2020, 7:16 AM Post
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bdpecore said:
On the same note I can see where Keston sits on days Anderson is pitching since he induces an above average number of ground balls which puts a larger emphasis on your infielder abilities to make defensive plays.


God, I hope not... His bat needs to stay in the line-up, outside of the OCCASIONAL day or rest anyway...

I don't expect Anderson to make more than a few starts based on his history (dude is like glass), so it's probably a moot point.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#77

Posted: February 20, 2020, 9:00 AM Post
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Reminder that Hiura's OPS as a rookie last year was .938 or in other words, not someone who is anything but an everyday player.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#78

Posted: February 20, 2020, 9:21 AM Post
Posts: 101
turborickey said:
bdpecore said:
On the same note I can see where Keston sits on days Anderson is pitching since he induces an above average number of ground balls which puts a larger emphasis on your infielder abilities to make defensive plays.


God, I hope not... His bat needs to stay in the line-up, outside of the OCCASIONAL day or rest anyway...

I don't expect Anderson to make more than a few starts based on his history (dude is like glass), so it's probably a moot point.

I’m not saying Keston will be getting scheduled days off but if there is a double header I could see him sitting out the game if Anderson is pitching. Again not that it will be every 5th game, but just something Counsell will have to consider when figuring out lineups.


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#79

Posted: February 20, 2020, 9:45 AM Post
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bdpecore said:
turborickey said:
bdpecore said:
On the same note I can see where Keston sits on days Anderson is pitching since he induces an above average number of ground balls which puts a larger emphasis on your infielder abilities to make defensive plays.


God, I hope not... His bat needs to stay in the line-up, outside of the OCCASIONAL day or rest anyway...

I don't expect Anderson to make more than a few starts based on his history (dude is like glass), so it's probably a moot point.

I’m not saying Keston will be getting scheduled days off but if there is a double header I could see him sitting out the game if Anderson is pitching. Again not that it will be every 5th game, but just something Counsell will have to consider when figuring out lineups.


ok, doubleheaders? how many of those will we play in 2020?

It seems like you are backtracking a bit here...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: 2020 Lineup
#80

Posted: February 20, 2020, 9:51 AM Post
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I agree Hiura will be an "everyday" player, but in a small sample of MLB PAs, he's been much better vs RHP. Anyone know how he did in the minors vs LHP? Was last year just a small sample anomaly, or should he sit sometimes against lefties?


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