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Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY

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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 23, 2020, 9:51 AM Post
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Even though I am not a country music fan whatsoever, the song Cheater Cheater by Joey and Rory seems like appropriate walk-up music for some of these guys.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 23, 2020, 9:54 AM Post
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homer said:
Even though I am not a country music fan whatsoever, the song Cheater Cheater by Joey and Rory seems like appropriate walk-up music for some of these guys.


I'd be all over that if I was one of their rivals. I have no sympathy for those players who regularly pulled that crap and are going to skate off scot free. Obviously Bregman and Altuve are mentioned the most (along with Beltran), but have their been others accused of the cheating?

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 23, 2020, 12:27 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
I've seen lots of calls for Astros batters to be thrown at this season. Really interested to see what the league does if fishy things start to happen.



I've been wondering about this. I guess we'll see what starts happening in spring training or early in the season. I almost wonder if some of their guys are getting hit in the legs/butt/back but not in the head/upper body area if the league just stays out of it for the time being. A lot of players are pretty p/o'd right now.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 23, 2020, 12:51 PM Post
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Ron Robinson's Beard said:
homer said:
Even though I am not a country music fan whatsoever, the song Cheater Cheater by Joey and Rory seems like appropriate walk-up music for some of these guys.


I'd be all over that if I was one of their rivals. I have no sympathy for those players who regularly pulled that crap and are going to skate off scot free. Obviously Bregman and Altuve are mentioned the most (along with Beltran), but have their been others accused of the cheating?


There's a lot of options for mocking songs. Ace of Base, The Sign is another one.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 23, 2020, 1:31 PM Post
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tmwiese55 said:
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
homer said:
Even though I am not a country music fan whatsoever, the song Cheater Cheater by Joey and Rory seems like appropriate walk-up music for some of these guys.


I'd be all over that if I was one of their rivals. I have no sympathy for those players who regularly pulled that crap and are going to skate off scot free. Obviously Bregman and Altuve are mentioned the most (along with Beltran), but have their been others accused of the cheating?


There's a lot of options for mocking songs. Ace of Base, The Sign is another one.


I like that one. You could even have some local band cover it with mocking lyrics...

"I stole the signs, used electronic eyes, I stole the signs"

[laughing]

"Don't force him to choose between Chris Smalling and Phil Jones. It's like asking someone to choose between which STD to contract!"


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 29, 2020, 3:51 PM Post
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The astros have hired Dusty Baker. I don't get it. They have such a good rotation and you know he is going to run them into the ground as he has done everywhere else he has managed. He is also 70, so I question how long he will be managing the Astros. This is probably a 1 year thing so they can have a full hiring cycle to get someone in there full time. I can't be happy if I'm an Astros fan.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 29, 2020, 3:56 PM Post
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Damage control. The most important thing to that team is keeping the clubhouse focused. Baker is thought of highly for that.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 31, 2020, 1:15 PM Post
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https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-one-ast ... 24616.html

Interesting article of an Astros fan going back and proving that his beloved team was cheating. Pretty good read that shows when the trash can incident really took off and how frequent the trash can bangs were for certain players.

With Altuve using a buzzer, I’m not surprised his number was so low.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 31, 2020, 1:37 PM Post
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RollieTime said:
https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-one-astros-fan-quest-to-do-the-unthinkable-prove-his-team-cheated-sign-stealing-155724616.html

Interesting article of an Astros fan going back and proving that his beloved team was cheating. Pretty good read that shows when the trash can incident really took off and how frequent the trash can bangs were for certain players.

With Altuve using a buzzer, I’m not surprised his number was so low.


Here's the guys website: http://www.signstealingscandal.com

It's really sad as this seems more and more like the Astros really gamed the system.

The Athletic did an in depth dive and found some really astounding numbers. They went from striking out 8th most in the history baseball - to a team that struck out the fewest of any team in baseball - all within one year.

Logically, there are some reasons for the drop. But a drop that high is historic.

https://theathletic.com/1573075/2020/01 ... e-popping/


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 31, 2020, 1:46 PM Post
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BTW, here's a nice take someone did on Twitter - it's a roughly 2 minute video of Danny Farquhar pitching for the White Sox. The guy who made the video narrates the sequence, and points out the 'bangs' and so forth - so you can see exactly how the system the Astros set up worked.

https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1194348775965437952

The interesting thing is that Farquhar figured out something was up - and changed the signs with the catcher (striking out the batter who didn't know what was coming). That day, there were 41 recorded 'bangs' during the game. But over the next three games - the final three for the Astros in the regular season in 2017 - there were only 2 recorded bangs as they realized they had been figured out.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: January 31, 2020, 4:58 PM Post
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There is an entire site that outlines it all: signstealingscandal.com

The “bangs” alone were on approximately 12% of pitches. The banging was minimal to non existent until late May and obviously no banging often meant something (when they were doing it). They also had other types of signals too that didn’t involve banging.

The amount of cheating and the frequency from May onward is astonishing. It is no wonder why they got the hammer dropped on them.

Marwin Gonzalez was the most frequent cheater (19%) with Springer, Correa, Bregman, and Beltran all nearby. Reddick and Altuve were mysteriously had incredibly low bangs comparative to their PAs. Again that 19% is just bangs...doesn’t include non bangs that meant fastball etc. The actual amount he got a signal for could have been 50%+


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 01, 2020, 11:59 AM Post
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What's really disgusting is that MLB (and perhaps the MLBPA as a willing co-conspirator) has somehow convinced a large segment of the population that no players could be suspended because of "cooperation issues." What hogwash. The original article from The Athletic - https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11 ... -baseball/ - states that Mike Fiers and THREE OTHER PEOPLE from within the Astros organization claimed this was going on. With available video/audio and admissions from four different individuals from within the organization, it's completely ridiculous to think that there wasn't enough evidence to suspend the players that were involved.

I'd really love to see reporters really go after MLB on this, because the more evidence that come to light, the more obvious it is that players should have been suspended. Why should the public be satisfied with a couple expendables getting the scapegoat treatment, while letting the money-making assets get off scot-free?

The reporters should also be all over MLB about where that 5 million dollar fine goes after it heads back to the league office. Needless to say, baseball should do the right thing and donate that money to a worthy charity. Considering how much revenue they generate, and how much money they swindle from the public in stadium deals...a 5 million dollar donation is the LEAST that they could do. Somehow it wouldn't surprise me much at all if the money gets funneled right back to Jim Crane.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 01, 2020, 8:00 PM Post
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My initial thought was "no, they shouldn't/can't suspend the players involved." A bunch of them are on other teams, it would make it hard for the Astros to field a team in 2020, etc, etc, etc.

The more that comes out about this, I just .....honestly don't care. These guys suck. We suspend guys who take unregistered supplements (I get it, they know they shouldn't), and these guys were using a super sophisticated system to cheat like crazy. That jomboy video made it PLAIN as DAY what was going on. Jomboy might be a humor site, but he usually has some good and relevant commentary to go along with the hyucks. The statistics that show the percentage of pitches they heard the banging on shows not just how, but how much this system was in place.

Hinch should never work in baseball again. He can say he didn't like it, and tried to stop it. Bull-oney. Dude, get out of here with that weak crap. If you're a manager and THIS is going on, you're either encouraging it, or tacitly allowing it. Suspend him and Cora and Beltran for life.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 09, 2020, 9:40 AM Post
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I will be interested to follow the stat lines of Astro hitters this year, specifically guys like Bregman and Altuve. I think any notable drop in offensive performance should be absolutely held under the microscope. I would be very wary at best of trading for any position player from the Astros for the next several years.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 09, 2020, 10:10 AM Post
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Given new info coming out Im surprised Luhnow only got a year suspension.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 09, 2020, 3:31 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
I will be interested to follow the stat lines of Astro hitters this year, specifically guys like Bregman and Altuve. I think any notable drop in offensive performance should be absolutely held under the microscope. I would be very wary at best of trading for any position player from the Astros for the next several years.


Altuve was a great hitter before all this stuff. OPS around .850 from 14-16. Bregman's worst full MLB season was actually 2017, the year this all happened. It's not like their "cheating" years were outliers from the rest of their career.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 09, 2020, 4:07 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
adambr2 said:
I will be interested to follow the stat lines of Astro hitters this year, specifically guys like Bregman and Altuve. I think any notable drop in offensive performance should be absolutely held under the microscope. I would be very wary at best of trading for any position player from the Astros for the next several years.


Altuve was a great hitter before all this stuff. OPS around .850 from 14-16. Bregman's worst full MLB season was actually 2017, the year this all happened. It's not like their "cheating" years were outliers from the rest of their career.


2017 was Bergman's first full season. It was also happening in 2018. And just because MLB didn't find evidence of it happening in 2019 doesn't mean it wasn't.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 09, 2020, 11:17 PM Post
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I am shocked at just how bad this was. I for one believe this title should have been stripped given what we know now. To have the manager and gm fired but contract extensions all around for the players involved is ridiculous and embarrassing.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 10, 2020, 11:04 AM Post
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Bulldogboy said:
I am shocked at just how bad this was. I for one believe this title should have been stripped given what we know now. To have the manager and gm fired but contract extensions all around for the players involved is ridiculous and embarrassing.


And what exactly does "stripping the title" do? The Astros take down a banner, that's it. It accomplishes nothing.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 10, 2020, 11:47 AM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
Bulldogboy said:
I am shocked at just how bad this was. I for one believe this title should have been stripped given what we know now. To have the manager and gm fired but contract extensions all around for the players involved is ridiculous and embarrassing.


And what exactly does "stripping the title" do? The Astros take down a banner, that's it. It accomplishes nothing.


That is a terrific point. Retroactively striping a title from the Astros is pointless.

About the only thing MLB could have done was prohibit the Astros from participating in postseason play in future seasons, but I don't know if the league would allow one of its teams to take that kind of financial hit?

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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