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Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY

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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:09 PM Post
Posts: 13182
What exactly is, “Do what is right?”

Nothing says suspend players for electronic sign stealing. The warning sent out in 2017 warned of draft pick loss. There really wasn’t a threat to the players themselves, but more so for the teams. That is exactly the punishment Manfred warned of and what he did.

I think part of the problem is the players aren’t really the core of the problem. It is the front office, coaches, and the trash banger. I guess I don’t have a huge issue with players not getting suspended.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:21 PM Post
Posts: 2783
Crane's denial is shameful. What a difference it would've made if he'd just said something like this

"What happened has happened and we've paid a high price. I'm sorry it happened and for how this has affected our fans, other teams, MLB, and the sport as a whole. The Astros organization has been highly embarrassed and I expect everyone in this organization to do everything possible to earn people's trust going forward, realizing fully that may take considerable time."

Own it. Be contrite. Take the heat FOR your people rather than trot out the guys you hired to replace the guys you fired into the media's crosshairs. Expect better of your people and say it publicly. Then move on.

Failure to do those simple, morally right things has only made matters worse.

Minneapolis sports radio was going on about this the other day and, to their credit, compared it to Braun's situation . . . but, thanks to one of the hosts living near the courier in MIL at the time, went on to point how, once Braun finally was outed, served his time, and owned it, Braun has done nothing but the right things to make amends, including personally visiting the courier guy to apologize, taking him to dinner, and lots of other small things out of the media spotlight. . . . . The point was, the Astros can't undo what they did, but there are abundant examples of how to handle the situation better than they have.

If Crane handles it well, he makes it easier on at least some level moving forward. He didn't, though, and the PR nightmare for the Astros will continue for so much longer than it might have had to.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:41 PM Post
Posts: 20585
BTW, I 100% believe that Altuve had something under his shirt when he hit that walkoff and begged teammates not to mess with his shirt. How often do you actually see a guy do that ever. They even wrote about it the next day how hilarious it was and how great Altuve is. Sure looks a lot different now. They don't get and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Won't ever be proven, but yeah, I completely believe he had a buzzer or something else on him. His bogus "shy" explanation coupled with the fact that he has numerous shirtless photos of himself on his social media doesn't help.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 12:42 PM Post
Posts: 5071
MrTPlush said:
What exactly is, “Do what is right?”

Nothing says suspend players for electronic sign stealing. The warning sent out in 2017 warned of draft pick loss. There really wasn’t a threat to the players themselves, but more so for the teams. That is exactly the punishment Manfred warned of and what he did.

I think part of the problem is the players aren’t really the core of the problem. It is the front office, coaches, and the trash banger. I guess I don’t have a huge issue with players not getting suspended.


That is also a part of it as well.

They told the teams not to do it. The Astros did.

The Astros took the hit.

Cora and Beltran were let go by their teams, NOT by order of MLB.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 3:44 PM Post
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Players sue the Astros because their cheating ended their career.

Astros will sue opposing pitchers that throw at them.

2020 is shaping up to be a great year for baseball!


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 4:28 PM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Baseball in 2020 and beyond is already tainted. You allow a team to cheat for 3 seasons and give them a slap on the wrist and allow the players to continue on their way. What a sham this entire sport has become. From turning a blind eye to steroids and then flip/flopping when it got out of control, to this situation and then you throw on top of that the economic disparity amongst the teams? Why the hell do I even watch or support any of this crap?

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 4:52 PM Post
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Manfred is a dolt. More or less saying "the players weren't specifically told that cheating would result in punishment"

Uh..... what?

Also, Carlos Correa should get hit 75 times this year, and just put his head down and jog to first base each time. His "Apology" basically consisted of "yeah, we cheated, so what? Time to move on." Saying "No comment" would have been better than what he said.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 16, 2020, 6:17 PM Post
Posts: 20585
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/287 ... ent-astros

Manfred: We thought about stripping the Astros title but you can't just deviate from precedence without good reason.

Also Manfred: Let's enforce a 3 batter minimum, change the entire long standing roster limits both for the regular season and September, mandate how many pitchers can be carried, and overhaul the entire playoff system.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 9:43 AM Post
Posts: 5600
Location: New Berlin, WI
RoCoBrewfan said:
Manfred is a dolt. More or less saying "the players weren't specifically told that cheating would result in punishment"

Uh..... what?

Also, Carlos Correa should get hit 75 times this year, and just put his head down and jog to first base each time. His "Apology" basically consisted of "yeah, we cheated, so what? Time to move on." Saying "No comment" would have been better than what he said.


I actually think Manfred is doing the best he can, aside from the whole not suspending players thing. Of course he has to make a comment toward the Astros, otherwise they'd get plunked 40-50 times in spring training and who knows what kind of on field conduct that would spark. I personally love baseball brawls when they are actually brawls and not jogging out and posturing, but it's not good for the game. Kids don't need to be seeing that stuff, and it would inevitably happen if Astros players are getting hit.

The apology from the Astros was horrible. They clearly don't care at all. Correa is by far the worst piece of this. Dude is getting upset with other players making negative comments about their cheating. Shut your mouth, put your head down, and take it until it fades away. That dude probably has the biggest target on his back of all Astros at this point because of his big mouth.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 9:44 AM Post
Posts: 5600
Location: New Berlin, WI
adambr2 said:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

Manfred: We thought about stripping the Astros title but you can't just deviate from precedence without good reason.

Also Manfred: Let's enforce a 3 batter minimum, change the entire long standing roster limits both for the regular season and September, mandate how many pitchers can be carried, and overhaul the entire playoff system.


The playoff thing is probably an effort to change the conversation. I'm not entirely sure it actually happens.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 9:56 AM Post
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I highly doubt the Astros players are going to be targeted (hit, beaned, plunked, drilled, etc...) any more than other years. MLB isn't played that way any longer.

It will be interesting at season's end to compare the HBP stat compared to other teams.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 10:59 AM Post
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turborickey said:
I highly doubt the Astros players are going to be targeted (hit, beaned, plunked, drilled, etc...) any more than other years. MLB isn't played that way any longer.

It will be interesting at season's end to compare the HBP stat compared to other teams.


I would guess the number of MLB players that are truly outraged about what the Astros did is extremely small. We want to believe all these guys really care about winning but the vast majority of them only care that the check clears.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 11:21 AM Post
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Especially considering that you're going to be asking the bottom rung relievers of the world to consistently be hitting the Astros and teams to be costing themselves games just to prove a point.

Taylor Williams won't be helping out his career by plunking Carlos Correa. The Rangers aren't going to want to be drilling Altuve or Springer at every chance since they'll be trying to chase them for the division.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 17, 2020, 1:33 PM Post
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I hope, in light of the antics of the current commissioner who behaves as if he is not actually a baseball fan, that people now appreciate the job that Selig did as a commissioner.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 18, 2020, 12:26 PM Post
Posts: 13182
Their own fans are suing them:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/an-astros- ... 34923.html


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 18, 2020, 1:25 PM Post
Posts: 5600
Location: New Berlin, WI
MrTPlush said:


Hard to imagine this gaining much traction. Doesn't make it any less hilarious though.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 18, 2020, 1:45 PM Post
Posts: 3961
jerichoholicninja said:
turborickey said:
I highly doubt the Astros players are going to be targeted (hit, beaned, plunked, drilled, etc...) any more than other years. MLB isn't played that way any longer.

It will be interesting at season's end to compare the HBP stat compared to other teams.


I would guess the number of MLB players that are truly outraged about what the Astros did is extremely small. We want to believe all these guys really care about winning but the vast majority of them only care that the check clears.


In my opinion, you are on the right path, but go a little further. The pitchers that faced cheating Astros had their stats negatively effected, which in turn hurts their earning power.

The Astros are gonna get beaned. A lot.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 18, 2020, 1:53 PM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
jerichoholicninja said:
turborickey said:
I highly doubt the Astros players are going to be targeted (hit, beaned, plunked, drilled, etc...) any more than other years. MLB isn't played that way any longer.

It will be interesting at season's end to compare the HBP stat compared to other teams.


I would guess the number of MLB players that are truly outraged about what the Astros did is extremely small. We want to believe all these guys really care about winning but the vast majority of them only care that the check clears.


In my opinion, you are on the right path, but go a little further. The pitchers that faced cheating Astros had their stats negatively effected, which in turn hurts their earning power.

The Astros are gonna get beaned. A lot.


Astros hitters had their stats inflated which is going to inflate their contracts and also the contracts of every other hitter in the league when used for comparison.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 18, 2020, 6:01 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
turborickey said:
I highly doubt the Astros players are going to be targeted (hit, beaned, plunked, drilled, etc...) any more than other years. MLB isn't played that way any longer.

It will be interesting at season's end to compare the HBP stat compared to other teams.


I would guess the number of MLB players that are truly outraged about what the Astros did is extremely small. We want to believe all these guys really care about winning but the vast majority of them only care that the check clears.


The more guys that sound off about this the more it sounds like a lot of guys are pretty pissed. I'm sure most players want to make a lot of money, absolutely, and I'm sure that's the number one priority to just about every guy in the league, but I'm reasonably sure that most of them still have a pretty strong desire to win. I don't think you can play ball half the year and not have a high drive to win.


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Offline  Re: Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY
Posted: February 19, 2020, 7:43 AM Post
Posts: 2115
Now that they will try to eliminate this type of cheating, there goes Suter's advantage. He pitched too fast for teams to cheat on him. They weren't used to having to figure out pitches on their own. [laughing]


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