LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 12  Next  [ 239 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

YELICH EXTENDED - 9 YEARS $215M, Mutual Option in 2029, Full No Trade, $28 million deferred

Author Message
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 8:46 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 974
Anyone think this was a MA special? I wouldn't be surprised if MA was the driving force behind this.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 8:48 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 593
bill hAll Star said:
But my question is:

Did we "save $20m-30 this year" to sprinkle on his contract further down the road? If so, I'd rather have just gone all-in from 2020-2022 and gotten something for him in a trade if all else failed.

I posted in the Payroll thread but I see it as likely that Yelich gets some kind of signing bonus as part of the deal that will ultimately add to this year's payroll. I think they'd be crazy not to add a little bit this year since they're "under budget" compared to last season. Add some now, save some down the line.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 8:50 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1039
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.

I am not Shea Vucinich


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 8:58 AM Post
Posts: 5145
Location: Madison, WI
RobDeer 45 said:
I think Braun would have been the next Yount, if the HGH thing didn't happen. He was becoming the baseball version of the face of our state. Hanging with Rodgers and bringing the fan bases together. I'm not an expert on this but would Braun be a Hall of Famer if he didn't get caught with HGH? I don't know, but I think he was borderline? Not here to debate that, just to say, I think he was going to be the next great, and now he will always be looked at differently.


Yea that's pretty much it. Now, they're banking on that again here. As some said, there is a value to keeping the team relevant to fans. Attendance is big here and while they were able to maintain ok during that couple year dip another prolonged bad stretch and next thing you know you could be back to the early 00s. Basically just saying there is a value in kind of just keeping things on the right track. Then add in that Braun's deal will be gone and I think only 1 year left for Cain when this kicks in and teamwise they're OK as well as long as they don't lock in any flopped deals between now and then (hmmm, they weren't so cheap and dumb after all).

Braun's HOF I'd probably say he's still slightly out as a HOFer without the PED scandal alone, assuming all the same games missed and all that. But, add in the missed games and take out the thumb injury and I'd probably say he'd have made it. He basically had two years ruined by those things in his prime (and who knows how many HRs the thumb cost him in later years), tack on another 40-50 HRs to his totals and he's probably just over and gets in.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:03 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2805
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.


I have never ripped Braun's production or the fact that he's "overpaid" or anything like that.

I realize you cannot magically take that money and put it elsewhere sometimes, but still...do you think the Brewers wish they could've put $20 million to pitching or shortstop the past 2 years? I think they'd have taken that opportunity.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:13 AM Post
Posts: 13169
RobDeer 45 said:
I think Braun would have been the next Yount, if the HGH thing didn't happen. He was becoming the baseball version of the face of our state. Hanging with Rodgers and bringing the fan bases together. I'm not an expert on this but would Braun be a Hall of Famer if he didn't get caught with HGH? I don't know, but I think he was borderline? Not here to debate that, just to say, I think he was going to be the next great, and now he will always be looked at differently.


He would have been short of the HOF...though somewhat close. Usually you have to get about 65 WAR to have a good chance....he sits at 48 WAR. He will still be looked back as one of the franchises prime players and I am sure will hang around for events for years to come. That being said, yah, the steroids made him iffy in the eyes of many fans. Yount was an all time great though, a sure fire HOF talent. Something Braun unfortunately came up short as with his on the field performance.

Yelich seems primed for a HOF career and appears to be a great character...that’s worthy of taking the torch from Yount. Something I am sure the organization is thrilled to have the possibility at.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:20 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1039
bill hAll Star said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.


I have never ripped Braun's production or the fact that he's "overpaid" or anything like that.

I realize you cannot magically take that money and put it elsewhere sometimes, but still...do you think the Brewers wish they could've put $20 million to pitching or shortstop the past 2 years? I think they'd have taken that opportunity.


This assumes there is a way you can just have a guy like Braun or Yelich for his peak years, then ditch them when they decline. This is how superstar contracts work. If you want a guy like Yelich or Braun, this is the cost. Would you rather have not had Braun at his peak because of the current value of his contract?

I for one would rather pay that cost to have Yelich, now and in 9 years, than give him away and hope the money has value elsewhere

I am not Shea Vucinich


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:29 AM Post
Posts: 20554
BuckyBrewer61 said:
bill hAll Star said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.


I have never ripped Braun's production or the fact that he's "overpaid" or anything like that.

I realize you cannot magically take that money and put it elsewhere sometimes, but still...do you think the Brewers wish they could've put $20 million to pitching or shortstop the past 2 years? I think they'd have taken that opportunity.


This assumes there is a way you can just have a guy like Braun or Yelich for his peak years, then ditch them when they decline. This is how superstar contracts work. If you want a guy like Yelich or Braun, this is the cost. Would you rather have not had Braun at his peak because of the current value of his contract?

I for one would rather pay that cost to have Yelich, now and in 9 years, than give him away and hope the money has value elsewhere


We would have had Braun for his peak regardless. He was controlled through 2015 (his age 31 season), before the extension. Extensions for Yelich and Braun in this case are actually quite similar, but the big difference is Braun still has 5 years control remaining at the time and Yelich had only 3.

I think this is part of the reason you're seeing teams try to buy guys out when they're so young so they can get those peak years cost-controlled. The first contract to Braun was fantastic and definitely something I would do with Hiura now. I didn't like the second deal for him as much because he was so far away from free agency. I do understand it though.


Last edited by adambr2 on March 04, 2020, 9:32 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:30 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2500
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
RobDeer 45 said:
I think Braun would have been the next Yount, if the HGH thing didn't happen. He was becoming the baseball version of the face of our state. Hanging with Rodgers and bringing the fan bases together. I'm not an expert on this but would Braun be a Hall of Famer if he didn't get caught with HGH? I don't know, but I think he was borderline? Not here to debate that, just to say, I think he was going to be the next great, and now he will always be looked at differently.


I think he would be a HOFer if he hadn't messed with HGH. It is all too sad because he lied about it. The cover-up is always worse than the 'crime'.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:33 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2805
BuckyBrewer61 said:
bill hAll Star said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.


I have never ripped Braun's production or the fact that he's "overpaid" or anything like that.

I realize you cannot magically take that money and put it elsewhere sometimes, but still...do you think the Brewers wish they could've put $20 million to pitching or shortstop the past 2 years? I think they'd have taken that opportunity.


This assumes there is a way you can just have a guy like Braun or Yelich for his peak years, then ditch them when they decline. This is how superstar contracts work. If you want a guy like Yelich or Braun, this is the cost. Would you rather have not had Braun at his peak because of the current value of his contract?

I for one would rather pay that cost to have Yelich, now and in 9 years, than give him away and hope the money has value elsewhere


I'm not totally against the deal as they may get a few extra peak years out of Yelich for under market, we'll see.

We'll never know if Mark held back some cash this year given the upcoming extension. Even if he didn't, Yelich will begin to decline very likely the season after his previous deal would've ended, in theory (2022).

So you could definitely make the argument that you could've gone all-in for these 3 years and traded Yelich at some point in 2022 if it wasn't working. Yelich, Hader, and any other all-in free agent signing should replenish the farm.

Then, in 2025, instead of a 33 year-old Yelich giving you a 1.5 WAR for $25 million, you might have a loaded farm system.

So in conclusion: They basically DID have Yelich through a good part of his prime. Maybe he is still an MVP from age 31-33, in which case this deal is great. But there's risk that he falls back to what Braun is now (which isn't bad) or worse.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:33 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2500
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
But back to Yeli. When I first found out you could have knocked me over with a feather. Now we know why we let both Yaz and Moose walk. Let's hope Mark A and company can surround our MVP with a good team around him going forward.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 9:46 AM Post
Posts: 1847
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.



2019 War

Braun- 1.8
Heyward- 2.0


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:15 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 5021
Has there been anything yet to confirm that this is definitely going to happen or are they still "closing in" on a deal?


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:19 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 613
wallus said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.



2019 War

Braun- 1.8
Heyward- 2.0


Braun since signing his big extension in 2011 at age 27 - 29.8 WAR (9 seasons)
Heyward since singing his huge deal in 2015 at age 26 - 7.1 WAR (4 seasons)

Braun put up 17.5 WAR in the four years after signing his deal, which includes his injury and suspension-ravaged 2013 and 2014 seasons. Comparing these two based on the WAR Braun put up in 2019 as a 35-year-old versus what Heyward did as a 29-year-old just isn't a good, or fair, comparison.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:24 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 1039
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
wallus said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.



2019 War

Braun- 1.8
Heyward- 2.0


Braun since signing his big extension in 2011 at age 27 - 29.8 WAR (9 seasons)
Heyward since singing his huge deal in 2015 at age 26 - 7.1 WAR (4 seasons)

Braun put up 17.5 WAR in the four years after signing his deal, which includes his injury and suspension-ravaged 2013 and 2014 seasons. Comparing these two based on the WAR Braun put up in 2019 as a 35-year-old versus what Heyward did as a 29-year-old just isn't a good, or fair, comparison.


Heyward also still has 4 more years left on his deal at $21.5m per.

I am not Shea Vucinich


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:27 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 2805
Ron Robinson's Beard said:
wallus said:
BuckyBrewer61 said:
I find it interesting people point to Braun’s contract as terrible in these discussions as well. Is he a bit overpaid here at the end of his contract? Sure. But last year the guy hit .285/.343/.505/.849 with 22HR and 75 RBI. The guy isn’t a dud, it’s not like he’s Jason Heyward.



2019 War

Braun- 1.8
Heyward- 2.0


Braun since signing his big extension in 2011 at age 27 - 29.8 WAR (9 seasons)
Heyward since singing his huge deal in 2015 at age 26 - 7.1 WAR (4 seasons)

Braun put up 17.5 WAR in the four years after signing his deal, which includes his injury and suspension-ravaged 2013 and 2014 seasons. Comparing these two based on the WAR Braun put up in 2019 as a 35-year-old versus what Heyward did as a 29-year-old just isn't a good, or fair, comparison.


But Braun is only being paid like Heyward in his 30s vs. Heyward's 20s.

The comparison is fair. We had Braun in his 20s on a cheaper deal and chose to add 5-6 years into his 30s. Braun's 20s vs. Heyward's 20s were a slam dunk for Braun. But we chose to pay Braun in his 30s like Heyward in his 20s/early 30s. Comparison is fair.

You've brought up this age thing inadvertently.

Braun, 2008-2015 (age 24-31): 35.5 WAR in 8 years. About 4.5 WAR/year
Braun, next extension 2016-2019 (age 32-35) 8.1 WAR. About 2 WAR/year likely to go down this year again.

Yelich, 2013-2019 (age 21-27): 33.6 WAR in 6.5 years. About 5 WAR/year
Yelich would've been under the deal until age 31, just like Braun, right before he tapered off.

So now we have Yelich, 2nd extension, 2023-2029 (I am going to count 2022 in his previous one).

Could Yelich's 32-36 look like Braun's? It'll be 31-38 for Yelich.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:33 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 593
Patrick425 said:
Has there been anything yet to confirm that this is definitely going to happen or are they still "closing in" on a deal?

FWIW I heard this morning on 620 WTMJ radio that the team expects to officially announce it on Friday.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:42 AM Post
Posts: 5062
Pugger said:
But back to Yeli. When I first found out you could have knocked me over with a feather. Now we know why we let both Yaz and Moose walk. Let's hope Mark A and company can surround our MVP with a good team around him going forward.


I think that is a very good bet.

Two of Feliciano/Henry/Fry could hold down catcher.

I would not be surprised if there was a deal to lock down Hiura for roughly the same timeframe as Yelich.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:44 AM Post
Posts: 5593
Location: New Berlin, WI
bill hAll Star said:
I was an original naysayer, but after further review, this is fine. It's so "cheap" that even if he does suck from age 34-37, ~$25 million is like $15 million in today's money. Hopefully we get payoff from age 31-33 because otherwise this was pointless.

At first I thought they were giving him more this year in said extension which would've been not great management of the window.

But my question is:

Did we "save $20m-30 this year" to sprinkle on his contract further down the road? If so, I'd rather have just gone all-in from 2020-2022 and gotten something for him in a trade if all else failed.


I'll personally echo this sentiment. At first I thought this was 7/200+ of NEW MONEY...taking him through age 37. Reality is it's 6/173 of new money only taking him through age 36. That extra 30+ million for his age 37 season was just a little too long in my opinion and a little too expensive. I didn't hate it, but at the same time it felt like this would be a mediocre-bad deal those last 2-3 years. This only going through age 36 is a real game changer for me. One less potential bad year.

Looking ahead, we have a fringe contender this year. Very strong chance of playoffs and could be really good if the young pitching breaks out. We have a bunch of salary coming off the books next year and cheap options if any of the Sogard/Gyorko/Smoak group breaks out in a big way. Come 2022, we have a ton of dead money coming off the books and a good core to build around. It will be very important that we revamp the farm a bit and develop better over the next couple years to build around a very solid core. Overall, outlook of the team is excellent going forward. The 2-3 year window we had while Yelich was around is now blown wide open. We could very well be consistently good for a long time.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: YELICH EXTENDED - 7 YEARS $200M+
Posted: March 04, 2020, 10:48 AM Post
Posts: 5062
KeithStone53151 said:
bill hAll Star said:
I was an original naysayer, but after further review, this is fine. It's so "cheap" that even if he does suck from age 34-37, ~$25 million is like $15 million in today's money. Hopefully we get payoff from age 31-33 because otherwise this was pointless.

At first I thought they were giving him more this year in said extension which would've been not great management of the window.

But my question is:

Did we "save $20m-30 this year" to sprinkle on his contract further down the road? If so, I'd rather have just gone all-in from 2020-2022 and gotten something for him in a trade if all else failed.


I'll personally echo this sentiment. At first I thought this was 7/200+ of NEW MONEY...taking him through age 37. Reality is it's 6/173 of new money only taking him through age 36. That extra 30+ million for his age 37 season was just a little too long in my opinion and a little too expensive. I didn't hate it, but at the same time it felt like this would be a mediocre-bad deal those last 2-3 years. This only going through age 36 is a real game changer for me. One less potential bad year.

Looking ahead, we have a fringe contender this year. Very strong chance of playoffs and could be really good if the young pitching breaks out. We have a bunch of salary coming off the books next year and cheap options if any of the Sogard/Gyorko/Smoak group breaks out in a big way. Come 2022, we have a ton of dead money coming off the books and a good core to build around. It will be very important that we revamp the farm a bit and develop better over the next couple years to build around a very solid core. Overall, outlook of the team is excellent going forward. The 2-3 year window we had while Yelich was around is now blown wide open. We could very well be consistently good for a long time.


This would be something new.

In the 1980s, the Crew went to the World Series in 1982, but was in the cellar in 1984, and second-to-last in `85 and `86 before Trebelhorn turned it around from 1987-1991, but that tenure saw a sub-.500 season.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 12  Next  [ 239 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gypcasino and 4 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test