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COVID-19 impact on MLB season

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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 13, 2020, 12:43 PM Post
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Actually, you're correct, it would be an incredible lack of foresight, that much is true. But I don't think they were really entertaining it as the most likely, or even a likely outcome. I think they made that deal thinking there would be games in June or July, fully attended, and it would work out OK for them.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 13, 2020, 12:49 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Actually, you're correct, it would be an incredible lack of foresight, that much is true. But I don't think they were really entertaining it as the most likely, or even a likely outcome. I think they made that deal thinking there would be games in June or July, fully attended, and it would work out OK for them.


Well I agree with what you said before. Too bad so sad if they really didn't forsee that and still made the deal. That's a pretty bad faith negotiation if they don't intend to honor it now.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 14, 2020, 9:06 PM Post
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I wonder logistically if the Brewers would be better off playing in AZ than WI. Many players live in AZ, but none that I know of live in WI. The cost of operating the stadiums, even without fans, have to be substantially higher at Miller Park. It would save money for teams AND benefit players and families. Oh well, I guess it's just regional travel this year anyways


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 14, 2020, 9:29 PM Post
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DHonks said:
I wonder logistically if the Brewers would be better off playing in AZ than WI. Many players live in AZ, but none that I know of live in WI. The cost of operating the stadiums, even without fans, have to be substantially higher at Miller Park. It would save money for teams AND benefit players and families. Oh well, I guess it's just regional travel this year anyways


The home stadium shift from the earlier considerations of AZ/FL/TX did interest me. Is it a thing where the combination of heat, time zones, and finding optimal TV times make it difficult? Or are they desperate to gamble that there could be a point where late season could let them have 10%-25% capacity? Maybe it could come as a counter proposal to the owners', but just don't see how the players in particular would strongly prefer to be playing in New York vs. Florida or Milwaukee vs. Arizona under the current circumstances.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 15, 2020, 11:00 AM Post
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folly412 said:
DHonks said:
I wonder logistically if the Brewers would be better off playing in AZ than WI. Many players live in AZ, but none that I know of live in WI. The cost of operating the stadiums, even without fans, have to be substantially higher at Miller Park. It would save money for teams AND benefit players and families. Oh well, I guess it's just regional travel this year anyways


The home stadium shift from the earlier considerations of AZ/FL/TX did interest me. Is it a thing where the combination of heat, time zones, and finding optimal TV times make it difficult? Or are they desperate to gamble that there could be a point where late season could let them have 10%-25% capacity? Maybe it could come as a counter proposal to the owners', but just don't see how the players in particular would strongly prefer to be playing in New York vs. Florida or Milwaukee vs. Arizona under the current circumstances.


I wonder how much the states complained about the "play all games in Arizona" plan, as the players pay income tax based on the state in which they play. Big tax states like NY, California, IL & WI would lose a lot of tax money if the games were played elsewhere.

"The most successful (people) know that performance over the long haul is what counts. If you can seize the day, great. But never forget that there are days yet to come."

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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 15, 2020, 11:34 AM Post
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monty57 said:
folly412 said:
DHonks said:
I wonder logistically if the Brewers would be better off playing in AZ than WI. Many players live in AZ, but none that I know of live in WI. The cost of operating the stadiums, even without fans, have to be substantially higher at Miller Park. It would save money for teams AND benefit players and families. Oh well, I guess it's just regional travel this year anyways


The home stadium shift from the earlier considerations of AZ/FL/TX did interest me. Is it a thing where the combination of heat, time zones, and finding optimal TV times make it difficult? Or are they desperate to gamble that there could be a point where late season could let them have 10%-25% capacity? Maybe it could come as a counter proposal to the owners', but just don't see how the players in particular would strongly prefer to be playing in New York vs. Florida or Milwaukee vs. Arizona under the current circumstances.


I wonder how much the states complained about the "play all games in Arizona" plan, as the players pay income tax based on the state in which they play. Big tax states like NY, California, IL & WI would lose a lot of tax money if the games were played elsewhere.


This is a really great and under discussed point (State Tax issue)


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 15, 2020, 8:56 PM Post
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monty57 said:
folly412 said:
DHonks said:
I wonder logistically if the Brewers would be better off playing in AZ than WI. Many players live in AZ, but none that I know of live in WI. The cost of operating the stadiums, even without fans, have to be substantially higher at Miller Park. It would save money for teams AND benefit players and families. Oh well, I guess it's just regional travel this year anyways


The home stadium shift from the earlier considerations of AZ/FL/TX did interest me. Is it a thing where the combination of heat, time zones, and finding optimal TV times make it difficult? Or are they desperate to gamble that there could be a point where late season could let them have 10%-25% capacity? Maybe it could come as a counter proposal to the owners', but just don't see how the players in particular would strongly prefer to be playing in New York vs. Florida or Milwaukee vs. Arizona under the current circumstances.


I wonder how much the states complained about the "play all games in Arizona" plan, as the players pay income tax based on the state in which they play. Big tax states like NY, California, IL & WI would lose a lot of tax money if the games were played elsewhere.

At the risk of going too political, most of the governors haven't really been making policy to maximize tax revenue lately and have sacrificed a lot more in tax money than what baseball players would have brought in. Baseball would probably only bring in about $7M-$8M in income tax revenue to WI, which in the grand scheme of tax revenue isn't much at all.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 16, 2020, 7:39 PM Post
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/291 ... distancing



No fist bumps or high fives, and "encouraging the fielders to back away from baserunners in between pitches".


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 3:22 AM Post
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A lot of people probably aren't going to like what I say here. That's okay, I respect that. If you don't, all I ask is that you read this in its entirety first. I would like to preface this by saying that I am NOT a "these spoiled brats get paid millions to play a game" person. I generally do side with players over owners on labor issues. I'm involved in a union myself and I respect it.


So with that being said, I'm pretty disgusted with what I've seen and heard out of MLB players lately. I'll start with what I'm not disgusted with. Players like Clayton Kershaw and Nolen Arenado have basically come out and said, "We had an agreement, and both sides should honor it." I think that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have, and I am not letting owners off the hook. If they agreed to pay salaries at their full prorated rate, that's exactly what they should be doing.


Now, I'll add what I'm disgusted with. I've yet to hear (and I could be totally wrong about this and might have just missed it) a single player come out and say something along the lines of "I'd like back out on the field for the people of this country." Not a single mention of trying to give back in the form of entertainment to the fans, who finance your entire livelihood.


The country is in crisis. People want, need something to cheer for, need a sense of normalcy again. Citizens who haven't ever cared about the game of baseball would be willing to fall in love with it now. Baseball really has a chance to win over the hearts and minds of the people right now, who are desperate for a distraction. And instead, they are completely missing the boat and they don't even seem to realize it. Nor do they seem to care. It's all about "me, me, me. You want me to play? What's in it for me?"


And to some degree, I understand it. I know these guys are looking out for themselves first, and no one should be expected to sacrifice their health for entertainment. But it would be nice if, in this day and age, with so many unemployed and struggling, if there was even a smidgen of a thought from a single player that "Hey, people are really suffering right now. What can we do to help?" Yes, I know the highest paid MLB stars are giving money to COVID-19 causes like every other rich athlete right now. And it's great that they're doing it, but there's something to be said for doing something collectively as a group for the morale of a nation.


Blake Snell comes off to me as one of the tone-deaf, selfish players I've ever seen. And maybe he's not. I don't really know him. But his comments come off as such. "Bro, I'm risking my life."


Bro, spare me. The diabetic cashier working the 7-11 where you just filled up your Escalade is risking his life. The middle aged nurse working 16 hour shifts in NYC is risking hers. Let's put aside for a minute the fact that as a 27 year old healthy world class athlete, your risk factor is incredibly low. The reality of your situation is that you won't be asked to do your job unless it is deemed remarkably safe, and if you have so much as a sniffle, you will have a test up your nose and access to any medical care you might possibly need before you even know what happened. That is your reality.


You know what gets me? The guys who want to give their two cents on the pros and cons of having a 2020 MLB season are overwhelming players who would be just fine without one. The Bryce Harpers, the Clayton Kershaws, the Mike Trouts. The guys who could each walk away from baseball forever today and spend the rest of their lives living in affluence. What about the players who have made a few hundred thousand in their careers and have their entire futures and livelihoods at stake?


What about Corbin Burnes, who needs desperately to get back at this? What if he loses another year after a lost year and never gets back? Do you think Corbin is okay with just poo-pooing the season away because Trout and Harper think they should What about someone like Tyrone Taylor trying to make it? What about some 32 year old journeyman minor leaguer who finally made the big leagues last year and may only have one last shot at making a career out of this? Does anyone care how these guys feel about it? Do you think they would be okay with a lost season? Has anyone asked? Would they even be willing to speak up out of fear of angering baseball's elite class?


This is what I mean by selfish. Getting baseball going isn't just about you, Blake. It isn't just about you, Bryce. If you don't care about getting it going for the fans, at least care about getting it going for your union brothers.


Anyway, I've ranted enough for now.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 6:59 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
A lot of people probably aren't going to like what I say here. That's okay, I respect that. If you don't, all I ask is that you read this in its entirety first. I would like to preface this by saying that I am NOT a "these spoiled brats get paid millions to play a game" person. I generally do side with players over owners on labor issues. I'm involved in a union myself and I respect it.


So with that being said, I'm pretty disgusted with what I've seen and heard out of MLB players lately. I'll start with what I'm not disgusted with. Players like Clayton Kershaw and Nolen Arenado have basically come out and said, "We had an agreement, and both sides should honor it." I think that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have, and I am not letting owners off the hook. If they agreed to pay salaries at their full prorated rate, that's exactly what they should be doing.


Now, I'll add what I'm disgusted with. I've yet to hear (and I could be totally wrong about this and might have just missed it) a single player come out and say something along the lines of "I'd like back out on the field for the people of this country." Not a single mention of trying to give back in the form of entertainment to the fans, who finance your entire livelihood.


The country is in crisis. People want, need something to cheer for, need a sense of normalcy again. Citizens who haven't ever cared about the game of baseball would be willing to fall in love with it now. Baseball really has a chance to win over the hearts and minds of the people right now, who are desperate for a distraction. And instead, they are completely missing the boat and they don't even seem to realize it. Nor do they seem to care. It's all about "me, me, me. You want me to play? What's in it for me?"


And to some degree, I understand it. I know these guys are looking out for themselves first, and no one should be expected to sacrifice their health for entertainment. But it would be nice if, in this day and age, with so many unemployed and struggling, if there was even a smidgen of a thought from a single player that "Hey, people are really suffering right now. What can we do to help?" Yes, I know the highest paid MLB stars are giving money to COVID-19 causes like every other rich athlete right now. And it's great that they're doing it, but there's something to be said for doing something collectively as a group for the morale of a nation.


Blake Snell comes off to me as one of the tone-deaf, selfish players I've ever seen. And maybe he's not. I don't really know him. But his comments come off as such. "Bro, I'm risking my life."


Bro, spare me. The diabetic cashier working the 7-11 where you just filled up your Escalade is risking his life. The middle aged nurse working 16 hour shifts in NYC is risking hers. Let's put aside for a minute the fact that as a 27 year old healthy world class athlete, your risk factor is incredibly low. The reality of your situation is that you won't be asked to do your job unless it is deemed remarkably safe, and if you have so much as a sniffle, you will have a test up your nose and access to any medical care you might possibly need before you even know what happened. That is your reality.


You know what gets me? The guys who want to give their two cents on the pros and cons of having a 2020 MLB season are overwhelming players who would be just fine without one. The Bryce Harpers, the Clayton Kershaws, the Mike Trouts. The guys who could each walk away from baseball forever today and spend the rest of their lives living in affluence. What about the players who have made a few hundred thousand in their careers and have their entire futures and livelihoods at stake?


What about Corbin Burnes, who needs desperately to get back at this? What if he loses another year after a lost year and never gets back? Do you think Corbin is okay with just poo-pooing the season away because Trout and Harper think they should What about someone like Tyrone Taylor trying to make it? What about some 32 year old journeyman minor leaguer who finally made the big leagues last year and may only have one last shot at making a career out of this? Does anyone care how these guys feel about it? Do you think they would be okay with a lost season? Has anyone asked? Would they even be willing to speak up out of fear of angering baseball's elite class?


This is what I mean by selfish. Getting baseball going isn't just about you, Blake. It isn't just about you, Bryce. If you don't care about getting it going for the fans, at least care about getting it going for your union brothers.


Anyway, I've ranted enough for now.


I support what you're saying.

And the risk isn't Incredibly low, I think it's basically zero unless one of these guys somehow has an unknown underlying condition. If it is known, then maybe don't play. The statistics for these players' demographic combined with outdoor transmission rates (basically zero unless you sneeze in someone's face) support my zero risk comment. Perhaps a tag play at a base with a collision where someone else's saliva gets in a mouth?? If you've heard of different statistics, I'd love to hear them but don't just scream at me.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 9:13 AM Post
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Here's the problem with all of that. The players literally are the ones "taking the risk" in this scenario. The owners are asking the players to go out and play, risk their health, their families health, and take a paycut, since apparently they don't want to honor the original deal.

There are CEO's right now taking zero salary while their businesses are taking massive hits. I know, I know, you can't compare baseball to anything else. Doesn't matter. When you're an owner, you don't pass the financial risk on to your employees. You just don't. If your employee makes 13 dollars an hour or 17 million a year, if you're financially struggling, it is what it is. If you owe a guy 30,000 for a game check, that's what you owe them. You can't say "weeeeeell, we don't have fans in the stands, so I'm gonna cut you back a bit." 7-11 isn't cutting their people back 2 or 3 dollars an hour. It's not apples to apples, but the point is, if you're playing 80 games, pay the guys 80 games of what they're supposed to get PAID. THAT is the risk of being an owner. It always has been.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 10:29 AM Post
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Location: Madison, WI
Have to say that if they don't get real games going by July 4th, then I really have no interest in watching. I'm betting almost all "lukewarm" baseball fans would feel the same. If they can't get started until August, most sports fans will already be looking forward to football and probably won't want to invest the time in paying attention to any abbreviated, gimmicky baseball season. There already seems to be a big drop in the attention paid to baseball when September arrives...and that's with fans/media having invested April, May, June, July into baseball and that give them incentive to keep watching. They start 4 weeks before football, everyone but the diehards are probably going to say "who cares" at that point.

It's dicey business anyway one looks at it because ticket sales and concessions make up 30-40% of total revenue. While the World Series and playoff money would likely stay the same, they could end up losing 50% of all the regular season TV money that they normally receive.

They can put all the safety protocols they want in place. Players would be extremely low risk for death, and could very well be very low risk to even show symptoms, but the fact remains that if one day the team arrives at the ballpark and Yelich, Hiura, Woodruff and about 6 other players all test positive then they probably have to be isolated for 2 weeks and teams could lose 1/3 of their best players for what amounts to 15-20% of the season.

IMO MLB/MLBPA are now up against it and have about 2 weeks to get this all hammered out. That puts us at June 1. Then it would take 1-2 weeks to get the "structure" in place to start playing the "getting in shape" games and then those game probably have to go 2-3 weeks....so looking at that it takes them a month to get to games that count. If they can't get this hammered out in the next two weeks, then why even bother at that point.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 10:41 AM Post
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I think the likelihood of Football in the Fall is very very low. Baseball can employ some degree of social distancing. Football? None. And many football players are higher risk because of their weight/borderline obesity.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 11:53 AM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
I think the likelihood of Football in the Fall is very very low. Baseball can employ some degree of social distancing. Football? None. And many football players are higher risk because of their weight/borderline obesity.


I don't think social distancing between athletes is really the biggest issue for sports being able to take off. UFC and WWE have been operating almost this entire time and they have more direct contact between athletes than anyone.

I see social distancing as more of a short-term large scale societal strategy to help prevent overrunning of medical facilities rather than something that is necessary on a small scope of a football field as a necessity to resume league operations.

I think wide scale league access to testing and potential treatments are much more important to seeing football again than social distancing on a football field, and they've had the luxury of numerous months to prepare that other leagues just haven't had. I don't think the NFL season is in any grave danger of being lost.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 11:55 AM Post
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3and2Fastball said:
I think the likelihood of Football in the Fall is very very low. Baseball can employ some degree of social distancing. Football? None. And many football players are higher risk because of their weight/borderline obesity.


I don't think this is really all that relevant. The on-field contact seems to buried on the list of obstacles to playing. It's all the stuff that goes on between games that's just as hard to plan around. If it were that simple, really, football sort of has an advantage. They're all covered in gear and it would pretty simple to outfit the helmet for a kind of mask, and make everyone wear gloves. They play way less, too.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 12:20 PM Post
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I would really like to know the opinions of some fringe major Leaguers. The ones where this might be their only shot at being in the majors or the veterans who this might be their last shot. What do they think? It's easy for the players who know they will be back next season to say just wait it out.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 17, 2020, 1:22 PM Post
Posts: 191
MVP2110 said:
I would really like to know the opinions of some fringe major Leaguers. The ones where this might be their only shot at being in the majors or the veterans who this might be their last shot. What do they think? It's easy for the players who know they will be back next season to say just wait it out.


I agree that this is the population that could sway a decision to play. The guy who is trying to get that extra year of service time to get a pension (or to free agency), the guy who is on the bubble of being a DFA if he doesn't show something, etc. That was a similar group that seemed to carry the vote in the NFLPA contract approval (before the virus issue surfaced). The guy who is going to be a minimum salary player, and has been underpaid i the minors for multiple years, sees a chance to finally get out of debt, buy a house, etc. He would be playing this year for about $550k. Half that is $275K. I don't think he'd want to give up more of that, but the advantages of getting a year of "real money" and service time is invaluable to that guy. There are a lot more of those players on rosters than there are superstars.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 18, 2020, 10:01 AM Post
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Location: New Berlin, WI
I'll add my 2 cents on this. I really don't take that much issue with certain players stance. It's certainly one of those things where it's better to hold your opinion and keep your mouth shut than open your mouth and inevitably upset people. Generally better for all that stuff to happen behind closed doors. Looking at Blake Snell's little 2 minute rant in particular, he makes a number of excellent points. If any of you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend it. And ignore the whiny aspects of his rant and focus on the substance of what he actually says.

I almost always side with the owners on stuff like this, but I'm 100% on the players side here. I'll also add that regardless of how they slice up the $ when that inevitably happens, every player should have the option to sit out the season and not get paid or accrue service time. Some version of an exempt list. There are players with conditions that would make them high risk, and they should have the option to put their health first without a negative consequence...in my opinion.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 18, 2020, 11:19 AM Post
Posts: 5588
Location: New Berlin, WI
RoCoBrewfan said:
Here's the problem with all of that. The players literally are the ones "taking the risk" in this scenario. The owners are asking the players to go out and play, risk their health, their families health, and take a paycut, since apparently they don't want to honor the original deal.

There are CEO's right now taking zero salary while their businesses are taking massive hits. I know, I know, you can't compare baseball to anything else. Doesn't matter. When you're an owner, you don't pass the financial risk on to your employees. You just don't. If your employee makes 13 dollars an hour or 17 million a year, if you're financially struggling, it is what it is. If you owe a guy 30,000 for a game check, that's what you owe them. You can't say "weeeeeell, we don't have fans in the stands, so I'm gonna cut you back a bit." 7-11 isn't cutting their people back 2 or 3 dollars an hour. It's not apples to apples, but the point is, if you're playing 80 games, pay the guys 80 games of what they're supposed to get PAID. THAT is the risk of being an owner. It always has been.


As much as I'm 100% on the players side, I generally don't like this argument. At the end of the day, the owners are going to win this battle. Sure, the players may end up winning a short term battle here...and probably will...but there's a strong chance the owners will make that money back by cutting payroll in the next couple years. There will probably be a couple ice cold years of free agency and far less long term extensions than there have been(or at least far less dollars offered...much more Freddy Peralta offers than Luis Robert offers). At the end of the day, it's a business...and the owners aren't going to run a business that loses money. Like it or not, that's a fact.


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Offline  Re: COVID-19 impact on MLB season
Posted: May 18, 2020, 1:15 PM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
Here's the problem with all of that. The players literally are the ones "taking the risk" in this scenario. The owners are asking the players to go out and play, risk their health, their families health, and take a paycut, since apparently they don't want to honor the original deal.

The flipside of that is that the players are not taking any of the financial risk of not playing. That is 100% on the owners who still have non-player payroll, insurance, stadium upkeep, legal, financing, and other expenses without any revenue.

I linked to the ESPN article on the original deal - there were stipulations in the deal that must be met for the season to start, one of which was that there can't be any edicts or other bans against large gatherings or other things preventing play at home stadiums. It is looking like there will be edicts or bans against large gatherings through the summer, thus the "original deal" isn't valid. I think the whole "don't want to honor the original deal" is spin put on by the players who may or may not be aware of all of the stipulations of the deal.


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