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Chris Sale to undergo Tommy John surgery

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Offline  Chris Sale to undergo Tommy John surgery
#1

Posted: March 19, 2020, 3:18 PM Post
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TJ for Sale. Tough to see for such a good pitcher.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/ ... rgery.html


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#2

Posted: March 19, 2020, 3:38 PM Post
Posts: 4844
This is the reason to not extend these large contracts to pitchers and why a team must grow their pitching from their minors. 30+mil down the drain, 31 becomes 32 another year away from prime. Tampa's front office has this idea down so much. Position players via FA, how often do they get a full 1year injury before a season even starts?


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#3

Posted: March 19, 2020, 6:15 PM Post
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It's also reason not to use pitchers 200+ innings four out of five years in a row.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#4

Posted: March 19, 2020, 7:04 PM Post
Posts: 2064
Location: Madison, WI
More justification for the Betts trade IMO. I just didn't see the Red Sox being able to keep pace with the Yankees and Rays with Sale's elbow, Eovaldi's elbow, Price's trouble at the end of last year (wrist), little in the way of starting pitching depth.

Had the Betts/Price trade not happened, without Sale their rotation probably looks something like this: David Price (health?), Eduardo Rodriguez, Nathan Eovaldi (health?), Martin Perez, Collin McHugh (health?). Seems like the right time to reset the luxury tax IMO.


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#5

Posted: March 19, 2020, 7:12 PM Post
Posts: 2064
Location: Madison, WI
Thurston Fluff said:
It's also reason not to use pitchers 200+ innings four out of five years in a row.


Nolan Ryan: 284 innings, 326 innings, 332 innings, 198 innings, 284 innings, 299 innings, 234 innings, 222 innings, 233 innings

Tom Seaver: 251 innings, 278 innings, 273 innings, 290 innings, 286 innings, 262 innings, 290 innings, 236 innings, 280 innings

I remember the days when pitching coaches actually taught sound mechanics and didn't just focus on opposing hitters and pitch sequencing. Now the attitude seems to be, "good, this guy has a funky delivery that may mess up some hitters...I don't care if he blows his arm out four years from now because by then he'll probably be pitching for someone else."


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#6

Posted: March 19, 2020, 9:48 PM Post
Posts: 4844
JosephC said:
Thurston Fluff said:
It's also reason not to use pitchers 200+ innings four out of five years in a row.


Nolan Ryan: 284 innings, 326 innings, 332 innings, 198 innings, 284 innings, 299 innings, 234 innings, 222 innings, 233 innings

Tom Seaver: 251 innings, 278 innings, 273 innings, 290 innings, 286 innings, 262 innings, 290 innings, 236 innings, 280 innings

I remember the days when pitching coaches actually taught sound mechanics and didn't just focus on opposing hitters and pitch sequencing. Now the attitude seems to be, "good, this guy has a funky delivery that may mess up some hitters...I don't care if he blows his arm out four years from now because by then he'll probably be pitching for someone else."


A Better comp to a Sale could be Randy Johnson. 14seasons above 200+IP 1st one at age 26. 271 and 260 ages. 35 and 38. 7 of 8seasons around that time. Hard thrower, funky delivery, Lefty. Poster child for the Sale&Haders that exist today.


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#7

Posted: March 19, 2020, 11:57 PM Post
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Since Chris Sale became a starter in 2012 he has thrown the 6th most innings in all of baseball. He has the 3rd highest FIP based WAR & 4th highest runs allowed based WAR during that time.

Yes, he throws fewer innings than inner circle Hall of Famers from 15-40 years ago. Compared to his contemporaries he's been one of the most durable & effective pitchers in baseball for a period of 8 years.


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#8

Posted: March 20, 2020, 10:30 AM Post
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JosephC said:
Thurston Fluff said:
It's also reason not to use pitchers 200+ innings four out of five years in a row.


Nolan Ryan: 284 innings, 326 innings, 332 innings, 198 innings, 284 innings, 299 innings, 234 innings, 222 innings, 233 innings

Tom Seaver: 251 innings, 278 innings, 273 innings, 290 innings, 286 innings, 262 innings, 290 innings, 236 innings, 280 innings

I remember the days when pitching coaches actually taught sound mechanics and didn't just focus on opposing hitters and pitch sequencing. Now the attitude seems to be, "good, this guy has a funky delivery that may mess up some hitters...I don't care if he blows his arm out four years from now because by then he'll probably be pitching for someone else."


Can we stop using pitchers from 30+ years ago when talking about what's wrong with pitchers these days? The game is not even close to the same. It's like saying so and so QB today was better than some Hall of Famer because he has more passing yards and TD's. The way the game is played and rosters are managed has changed drastically and this is the result.

As for Sale, everyone has been worried about him having TJ since he was drafted almost 10 years ago. Just about every pitcher these days is going to have some major injury at some point. Chris made it 10 years in pro ball before needing it. Considering how many guys are having TJ even in high school, I think he proved them wrong.


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Offline  Re: Chris Sales to undergo Tommy John surgery
#9

Posted: March 20, 2020, 10:48 AM Post
Posts: 4524
sveumrules said:
Since Chris Sale became a starter in 2012 he has thrown the 6th most innings in all of baseball. He has the 3rd highest FIP based WAR & 4th highest runs allowed based WAR during that time.

Yes, he throws fewer innings than inner circle Hall of Famers from 15-40 years ago. Compared to his contemporaries he's been one of the most durable & effective pitchers in baseball for a period of 8 years.


The cost of being one of the most durable is the number of pitches thrown go up which means the wear and tear on the body goes up. There are always going to be notable exceptions but generally speaking more use raises the odds of breaking down.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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