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Haines

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Offline  Haines
#1

Posted: September 15, 2020, 9:48 AM Post
Posts: 834
So, does Andy Haines get a "pass" this year (mostly due to the craziness surrounding this COVID season), or does he end up being the "fall guy" after the season is over with how historically anemic this offense has been?


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Offline  Re: Haines
#2

Posted: September 15, 2020, 10:50 AM Post
Posts: 839
I can see him getting a pass this season. Considering that so many batters that struggled this season, a lot of hitting coaches would be struggling as much as Haines is. Who would we replace Haines with, considering that a lot of people were on the same boat this season?


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Offline  Re: Haines
#3

Posted: September 15, 2020, 10:55 AM Post
Posts: 2148
A pass to next year. But a shorter leash next season.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#4

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:19 AM Post
Posts: 1340
I think that from the outside we really have no way of judging what's going on and who, if anyone, is at fault. And also that we as fans tend to overrate the (negative) impact a hitting coach can have, particularly on veterans with a proven track record, getting them to completely change their game is probably beyond most people. But at the same time, not a whole lot of good has happened to this offense since 2018 (Haines was hired after 2018), so I don't really see a positive impact either. We don't really know for sure though; maybe players are slumping for other reasons, maybe they would be even worse without him. Maybe he really is a terrible coach. Who knows.

I just know that last year I was never on the "Fire Hook" bandwagon, in fact I was against it, whereas the more I see of this offense the more I feel something needs to be done. Is that getting a new hitting coach? Maybe, I don't know.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#5

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:34 AM Post
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
I would move on but I also wouldn't of hired him.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Haines
#6

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:37 AM Post
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you probably have to replace him, but i don't think he is very much to blame for the brewers offensive woes, just like he shouldn't get much credit for the players that excelled last season. Hitting coaches, atleast to me, get more blame and credit than they deserve for any players failures or successes.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#7

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:39 AM Post
Posts: 1191
Brew4U said:
I would move on but I also wouldn't of hired him.


He was fired as the scrubs assistant hitting coach. If this guy doesn't get fired there is absolutely no accountability whatsoever in this organization. I don't know who should replace Haines but I am fairly certain the results won't be any worse.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#8

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:41 AM Post
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Blaming the hitting coach for Yelich and Hiura hitting like crap and swinging through middle-middle fastballs is a scapegoat. If they fire Haines, whatever, I'll be fine with it. But this isn't his fault. The accountability needs to fall on the guys making millions.

Formerly Joey Meyer Bombs


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Offline  Re: Haines
#9

Posted: September 15, 2020, 11:49 AM Post
Posts: 825
The kiss of death for Haines may have been when he was quoted saying that he didn't know what to tell Narvaez to help him out of his slump, he would just have to figure it out for himself. Isn't it the coaches job to come up with new strategies to help the players overcome their slumps? Interestingly, Counsell said pretty much the same thing when he was asked what he was going to do to get the offense going.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#10

Posted: September 15, 2020, 12:56 PM Post
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sauveb said:
The kiss of death for Haines may have been when he was quoted saying that he didn't know what to tell Narvaez to help him out of his slump, he would just have to figure it out for himself. Isn't it the coaches job to come up with new strategies to help the players overcome their slumps? Interestingly, Counsell said pretty much the same thing when he was asked what he was going to do to get the offense going.


Coaches get in funks with players just like players do. They don't have all the answers as much as a coach wants to. Sometimes a player gets to a point where the coach feels helpless with the situation. It was just him being real in the moment.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Offline  Re: Haines
#11

Posted: September 15, 2020, 1:03 PM Post
Posts: 534
Brew4U said:
sauveb said:
The kiss of death for Haines may have been when he was quoted saying that he didn't know what to tell Narvaez to help him out of his slump, he would just have to figure it out for himself. Isn't it the coaches job to come up with new strategies to help the players overcome their slumps? Interestingly, Counsell said pretty much the same thing when he was asked what he was going to do to get the offense going.


Coaches get in funks with players just like players do. They don't have all the answers as much as a coach wants to. Sometimes a player gets to a point where the coach feels helpless with the situation. It was just him being real in the moment.

Maybe Narvaez doesn't want to listen to him.

I'm more of the thought that the lack of video might be the cause.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#12

Posted: September 15, 2020, 1:11 PM Post
Posts: 1191
Fair or not other than Gyorko not one player in this lineup has had a good season and the hitting coach has to take responsibility. If the argument is the hitting coach has no resposnsibility for all of his players not hitting fire him and don't even hire a replacement. I agree that the players are far more responsible for their success and failure but Haines adds nothing to the equation.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#13

Posted: September 15, 2020, 1:42 PM Post
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Everyone wanted to fire Chris Hook at the beginning of last year, so far this year our pitching staff is 3rd in MLB by FIP based WAR.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#14

Posted: September 15, 2020, 2:20 PM Post
Posts: 922
sveumrules said:
Everyone wanted to fire Chris Hook at the beginning of last year, so far this year our pitching staff is 3rd in MLB by FIP based WAR.


The pitching staff is in the upper half of MLB in almost every pitching stat. It's been well discussed that the pitching has not been the problem. With any semblance of an offense they would be leading the league and big-time contenders. They are in the bottom 5 of all baseball in BA - Runs scored - OBP - OPS - Strikeouts. Sadly, Stearns' great journeyman experiment of 2020 has been an abysmal failure with one lone exception, Jed Gyorko.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#15

Posted: September 15, 2020, 2:22 PM Post
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A change is needed. The offense underachieved its talent last year. This year it's historically bad. Let's try a better profile than the assistant hitting coach of the most underachieving offense in baseball (who fired the primary hitting coach), and also join the 93% of other teams whose hitting coaches played professional baseball.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#16

Posted: September 15, 2020, 2:25 PM Post
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Stearns and Mark A get most of the blame from me for putting together this crappy offense. Yelich and Hiura’s struggles are out of their control but most of last offseason’s moves were embarrassing.


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Online  Re: Haines
#17

Posted: September 15, 2020, 2:48 PM Post
Posts: 438
sveumrules said:
Everyone wanted to fire Chris Hook at the beginning of last year, so far this year our pitching staff is 3rd in MLB by FIP based WAR.


Pitching went from slightly below average last year to above average this year. Hitting went from average to one of the worst in the league. I'm not sure it's a great comparison.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#18

Posted: September 15, 2020, 2:48 PM Post
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wntrtxn21 said:
sveumrules said:
Everyone wanted to fire Chris Hook at the beginning of last year, so far this year our pitching staff is 3rd in MLB by FIP based WAR.


The pitching staff is in the upper half of MLB in almost every pitching stat. It's been well discussed that the pitching has not been the problem. With any semblance of an offense they would be leading the league and big-time contenders. They are in the bottom 5 of all baseball in BA - Runs scored - OBP - OPS - Strikeouts. Sadly, Stearns' great journeyman experiment of 2020 has been an abysmal failure with one lone exception, Jed Gyorko.


Right, the pitching staff has been great.

It's almost like everybody that wanted Chris Hook fired at the start of last year was being overly reactionary based on a small sample of bad results with limited predictive capabilities.

Would firing Andy Haines after a small sample of bad results with limited predictive capabilities be similarly overly reactionary?

I guess only time will tell.


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Offline  Re: Haines
#19

Posted: September 15, 2020, 3:09 PM Post
Posts: 694
The approach to hitting has just been awful this year. Only Vogelbach (for now) even thinks about shortening up and/or slapping the gall to beat the shift. The softball uppercut swing for the fences approach with the entire opposing side of the infield open and continuing with 2 strikes even is ridiculous


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Offline  Re: Haines
#20

Posted: September 15, 2020, 3:15 PM Post
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Location: bush Alaska
What I'm wondering is, who would be the fall guy for the hitting coach?

In 2012 our pitching struggled and the bullpen stunk so they fired Stan Kyles the bullpen coach, and Kranitz got to stick around until the end of 2015. Different regime, I realize. But who besides Haines could they blame?

Do bat boys ever get fired? Are there bat boys this year?

I don't know who else they could fire but organizationally they cannot pretend that this year's offense is up to snuff, even with the roster construction being what it is. I would have to imagine they'll make a change after the season.


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