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2021 DH (Pending)

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Offline Brew4U 2021 DH (Pending)
#1

Posted: September 18, 2020, 9:43 AM Post
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Posts: 15281
Location: Milwaukee, WI
If we are able to keep the DH in the NL I thought a thread about possibilities would be good.

With Braun having his option on the table, I think they would be wise to give him another year if we do have the DH but I looked into his stats the last couple of seasons and thought it was interesting that he does much better playing OF.

Braun as a RF in 2020 (12 games): .298/.340/.766/1.106
Braun as a RF in 2019 (109 games): .301/.358/.532/.890
Braun as a LF in 2019 (2 games): .400/.571/.800/1.371

These are still great numbers that we could use out there. It's the question of health, always, with Braun.
"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun
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Offline BrewCrewBlueDevil Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#2

Posted: September 18, 2020, 10:41 AM Post
Posts: 366
2021 OF
LF- Yelich, CF- Cain, RF- Garcia

Braun has numerous injury issues with numerous parts of the body. Hopefully he goes on a year, Milwaukee makes the playoffs and he hangs it up after this season. He is a proud guy and won't put himself in a position where he will struggle. He'll retire as the second greatest Brewers of all time!
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Offline tmwiese55 Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#3

Posted: September 18, 2020, 10:48 AM Post
Posts: 5485
Location: Madison, WI
If there is a DH I feel like he should be welcomed back. He can still hit and won't be too expensive. As we saw this year, it's not easy to just grab guy for cheap and have them produce.

No DH gets a lot more questionable, but probably still take him as the 4th guy and also have a good defensive 5th OF. He can still play some OF and rotate through the 3 just listed and Braun in terms of days off and rest. Cain really should start getting the Braun rest schedule to stay healthy, so lots of off days between those two and then any DL stints and minor days off for Yeli/Garcia there will be plenty of starts for the 4th guy. Plus Braun can fill in at 1B too.


Last edited by tmwiese55 on September 18, 2020, 10:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline MrTPlush Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#4

Posted: September 18, 2020, 10:53 AM Post
Posts: 14086
Well he will be either a 1B or DH primarily next year. He would still get his fair share of OF playing time, but I doubt the OF is any different than Cain/Yelich/Garcia.

If there is no DH it becomes a question of whether or not they want Braun defensively at 1B and if he will hit enough to be good there.
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Offline RollieTime Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#5

Posted: September 18, 2020, 11:11 AM Post
Posts: 1352
Location: Washburn, WI
I would gladly bring Braun back if it’s for a few million.

But if we are discussing free agent options, then Castellanos is a guy to keep an eye on. I think it’s time to lock in an All-Star bat with Yelich and Hiura and Castellanos is one that won’t break the bank and would be a perfect guy in the 4 hole behind Yelich.

Marcell Ozuna would be a nice option to look at as well. He’s having a nice season and is still young where if you gave him a 3 or 4 year deal, it wouldn’t hurt you long term since he won’t be an aging player on a long contract.
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Offline Lathund Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#6

Posted: September 18, 2020, 11:19 AM Post
Posts: 1229
For Braun it all depends on how interested he is in playing. In the unlikely event the Brewers exercise the option for $15m I'm sure he'd happily stick around for a farewell tour. In the more likely event it gets declined and he gets the $4m buyout we'll have to see what kind of agreement can be reached. If there's no DH it changes teh equation, then it becomes more about the roster spot rather than the money. And with all the injuries and off days it becomes hard to justify. But we also don't know what the roster size will be either. 28 vs 26 makes a big difference. It's probably 26, but again we don't know for sure yet.

I'm also interested in seeing how real Vogelbach is. A .571 BABIP obviously isn't sustainable, but at what level will it settle is the question. I like his patient approach and willingness to go oppo. Making hard contact so far as a Brewer too.
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Offline LouisEly Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#7

Posted: September 18, 2020, 3:20 PM Post
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Posts: 7011
Can Gyorko play a passable 3B? If so, then you have a Braun/Vogelbach soft platoon at 1B if no DH.

If there is a DH, it's almost a no-brainer to bring him back. It's worth it to not have to deal with the Smoak/Morrison/Holt/Healy/Mathias/Peterson parade.
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Offline HiAndTight Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#8

Posted: September 18, 2020, 3:40 PM Post
Posts: 5265
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
2021 OF
LF- Yelich, CF- Cain, RF- Garcia

Braun has numerous injury issues with numerous parts of the body. Hopefully he goes on a year, Milwaukee makes the playoffs and he hangs it up after this season. He is a proud guy and won't put himself in a position where he will struggle. He'll retire as the second greatest Brewers of all time!



Braun ahead of Molly? Safe to assume you have Yount as #1.
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Offline JohnBriggs12 Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#9

Posted: September 19, 2020, 7:06 AM Post
Posts: 12512
HiAndTight said:
BrewCrewBlueDevil said:
2021 OF
LF- Yelich, CF- Cain, RF- Garcia

Braun has numerous injury issues with numerous parts of the body. Hopefully he goes on a year, Milwaukee makes the playoffs and he hangs it up after this season. He is a proud guy and won't put himself in a position where he will struggle. He'll retire as the second greatest Brewers of all time!



Braun ahead of Molly? Safe to assume you have Yount as #1.


It's extremely close, and an argument can be made either way. Molitor missed almost one full year due to injury in 84. Braun has missed time due to suspensions, and nagging injuries the last 3 or 4 years. Sad part is Braun is still a very dangerous hitter and if he were able to log 500 plate appearances, and while he might not be a bargain at $15 million, it would not be a big overpay either. He just can't play more than 3-4 games a week. If he wants to play, hopefully than can agree on a deal as it's going to be hard to replace even his part time production.
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Offline sveumrules Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#10

Posted: September 19, 2020, 7:40 AM Post
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JohnBriggs12 said:
HiAndTight said:

Braun ahead of Molly? Safe to assume you have Yount as #1.


It's extremely close, and an argument can be made either way.


Braun is undoubtedly a better hitter than Molitor, 135 vs 125 on OPS+ & 319 vs 269 on batting runs.

But Molly still has over 1,000 more plate appearances (+276 vs +230 replacement), was a better base runner (+57 vs +24), played more difficult positions (-13 vs -59 positional) & fielded those positions better (+12 vs -33).

Add it all up & it's not really all that close with Molly coming out at 60 WAR against 47 for Braun.

Now if Braun wins a World Series MVP this year or next year or (hey why not) both years, I might be able to be persuaded.
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Offline MrTPlush Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#11

Posted: September 19, 2020, 7:49 AM Post
Posts: 14086
I think Molitor had the better Brewers career statistically speaking (considering position), but it isn’t a huge gap.

That being said Braun at his peak (though short) was miles better than Molitor...in my opinion. Three Top 3 MVP finishes and won the award. Braun had 6 AS appearances to Molitor’s 5...Braun even had five in a row while Molitor only had two consecutive appearances once as a Brewer. The cherry on the top would be Braun was a career Brewer while Molitor had success elsewhere towards the end. I don’t think someone ranking in history should be solely statistical based. There is something to be said having a guy have his entire near 50 WAR career be in the smallest baseball market.

I would comfortably put Braun #2. Though I would not blame someone to reminisce about their childhood/80s to put Molitor #2 or dock Braun for his 2011-2013 fiasco.
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Offline LouisEly Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#12

Posted: September 19, 2020, 8:20 AM Post
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Posts: 7011
sveumrules said:
Braun is undoubtedly a better hitter than Molitor, 135 vs 125 on OPS+ & 319 vs 269 on batting runs.

But Molly still has over 1,000 more plate appearances (+276 vs +230 replacement), was a better base runner (+57 vs +24), played more difficult positions (-13 vs -59 positional) & fielded those positions better (+12 vs -33).

Add it all up & it's not really all that close with Molly coming out at 60 WAR against 47 for Braun.

Now if Braun wins a World Series MVP this year or next year or (hey why not) both years, I might be able to be persuaded.

Does this factor in the 418 games that Molitor played as a DH for the Brewers, compared to the 35 that Braun has played?

Would Molitor have been able to accumulate 1,000 more plate appearances (and the subsequent WAR, which is a counting stat) had the Brewers been a NL team when he played?
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Offline sveumrules Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#13

Posted: September 19, 2020, 8:25 AM Post
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MrTPlush said:
The cherry on the top would be Braun was a career Brewer while Molitor had success elsewhere towards the end.


Hard for me to hold Molly leaving & having success elsewhere against him when he wanted to stay but ownership was just too cheap to pay the man coming off 4.8 WAR in 92, 5.3 WAR in 91, 3.2 WAR in 90, 5.7 WAR in 89, 5.2 WAR in 88 & 6.0 WAR in 87.

30 WAR in a six year stretch, pretty good & just short of the 33 WAR Braun posted over his first six years, though that is mitigated somewhat by the fiasco.

The difference for me would be the 30 WAR Molitor put up over the nine seasons before his six year peak being clearly better than the 14 WAR Braun has put up in the 8 seasons following his (somewhat tainted) six year peak.
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Offline sveumrules Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#14

Posted: September 19, 2020, 8:42 AM Post
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LouisEly said:
sveumrules said:
Braun is undoubtedly a better hitter than Molitor, 135 vs 125 on OPS+ & 319 vs 269 on batting runs.

But Molly still has over 1,000 more plate appearances (+276 vs +230 replacement), was a better base runner (+57 vs +24), played more difficult positions (-13 vs -59 positional) & fielded those positions better (+12 vs -33).

Add it all up & it's not really all that close with Molly coming out at 60 WAR against 47 for Braun.

Now if Braun wins a World Series MVP this year or next year or (hey why not) both years, I might be able to be persuaded.

Does this factor in the 418 games that Molitor played as a DH for the Brewers, compared to the 35 that Braun has played?

Would Molitor have been able to accumulate 1,000 more plate appearances (and the subsequent WAR, which is a counting stat) had the Brewers been a NL team when he played?


Yes, the positional adjustment debits Molitor for the 418 games at DH plus the 131 at 1B (& even the 8 in corner OF) while crediting him for the majority of his career when he was a 3B (792 games) plus the 400 games at 2B, the 57 at SS & the 42 in CF. Whereas Braun has been debited for almost the entirety of his career being corner OF.

The two years Molitor was the primary DH (91-92), our primary 1B was Franklin Stubbs (0.3 WAR) so I think he would have still been able to find playing time, if the AL had never adopted the DH or the Brewers had already switched to the NL by then.
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Offline Devinep Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#15

Posted: September 19, 2020, 8:46 AM Post
Posts: 680
With Braun’s struggles again and not being able to play a bunch even in a short season, I think he’s a good bet to hang it up rather than limp through a full season again.

That said, the brewers will Probably cry poor after this season, so he could be a part of a soft platoon with Vogelbach at DH. And they still would have room for a legit bat at 1B
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Offline WV Brew Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#16

Posted: September 19, 2020, 11:12 AM Post
Posts: 1951
If there is a DH, Hiura should be the DH. If there is no DH, Hiura should be traded. His arm causes continual problems in the field. He makes errors by overcompensation and has trouble turning the double play.
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Offline djoctagone Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#17

Posted: October 22, 2020, 4:57 AM Post

Roster Guru
Posts: 3373
the annual general managers meeting will still be held in november, ahead of the winter meeting, but will be held remotely.

could we expect a designated hitter proposal to the mlb players association after the gm meeting?
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Offline JohnBriggs12 Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#18

Posted: October 22, 2020, 7:00 AM Post
Posts: 12512
LouisEly said:
Can Gyorko play a passable 3B? If so, then you have a Braun/Vogelbach soft platoon at 1B if no DH.

If there is a DH, it's almost a no-brainer to bring him back. It's worth it to not have to deal with the Smoak/Morrison/Holt/Healy/Mathias/Peterson parade.


Actually Gyorko is more than passable at 3B. He's a plus defender there. Gyorko's bat plays better at 3B. On the other hand, 1B is more of a pure offensive position and Gyorko's bat is subpar there. I'd take a shot at C.J. Cron in FA on a one year deal for first base and bring back Braun at a lesser amount to DH against LHP.
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Offline JackNicholson1974 Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#19

Posted: October 22, 2020, 7:59 AM Post

Tom Petty Apologist
Posts: 604
Huira may be the long term DH, but I would be fine with Braun being the DH next year. I want nothing to do with Vogelbach. Get a real 1B. Maybe Gyrko is that guy, I dont know. But 1b needs to be addressed first and foremost. Some combination of Braun and Hiura can handle DH. Urias can bounce between SS and 2b. Gyrko between 3b and 1b, but I would look to add a legit 1b. With that said, I have no idea who is available.
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Offline monty57 Re: 2021 DH (Pending)
#20

Posted: October 22, 2020, 8:21 AM Post
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I hope that they make a decision on whether or not the NL will have a DH sooner rather than later, as it puts NL teams at a disadvantage in the offseason not knowing how they should build their roster.

Assuming they go with the DH, I think the Brewers' most pressing need is to find a good corner infielder. If they do that, then Urias can move to 2B and Hiura can DH. If Yelich and Hiura can get hit like we expect them to, Cain returns, and we add a good 1B, our offense should look much better than it did this year, and our defense should be pretty good with Yelich/Cain/Garcia in the OF and Gyorko/Arcia/Urias/"real first baseman" in the IF.
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