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Fans at 2021 games

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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#41

Posted: February 18, 2021, 6:28 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Does the closed roof make any difference when it's 300 feet high? I can't imagine that does anything. There is plenty of ventilation with the roof closed. Did they say something about the roof?


I cant see how it could matter. I’m guessing this is more for optics than anything (just like the metal detectors that were added a few years ago).


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#42

Posted: February 18, 2021, 7:37 PM Post
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I would argue keeping it open would be worse. Now people will get cold, want to warm up, and it will increase uncontrolled congregating in the concourses etc.


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#43

Posted: February 18, 2021, 7:54 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Does the closed roof make any difference when it's 300 feet high? I can't imagine that does anything. There is plenty of ventilation with the roof closed. Did they say something about the roof?


100% about air flow and particle dispersion.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#44

Posted: February 18, 2021, 8:30 PM Post
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Yeah sorry but I'm highly skeptical that a spaced out 15,000 crowd that's almost for sure going to have a mask mandate is kept even the tiniest bit safer by having the roof 100+ ft above their head open. You can open the glass panels for air flow too. There's just no way the optics of the closed roof would go over. That's all that is.

And I didn't think of the cold people trying to keep warm either. But in any case an April 7pm start with the roof open sounds dreadful. I probably won't be there until June.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#45

Posted: February 18, 2021, 9:20 PM Post
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They should sell 10,000 tickets ahead of time (planning for an indoor game) and then sell the additional 5,000 at low prices if the weather will be decent / roof open.


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#46

Posted: February 18, 2021, 9:25 PM Post
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The roof being open won't have any impact on particle dispersion or air flow. For air flow having the panels open and the roof closed will actually have a bigger positive impact on air flow than having the roof open.


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#47

Posted: February 18, 2021, 10:43 PM Post
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nate82 said:
The roof being open won't have any impact on particle dispersion or air flow. For air flow having the panels open and the roof closed will actually have a bigger positive impact on air flow than having the roof open.


Is there a study out there on that? Or just your opinion?


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#48

Posted: February 19, 2021, 6:04 AM Post
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I’m sure there will be protocols that don’t really make any sense or have much backing behind it. That’s the world we currently live in at just about ever turn.

"I'm not as good as I was but in big moments I'm still the guy. I want that opportunity." -Ryan Braun


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#49

Posted: February 19, 2021, 9:54 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
nate82 said:
The roof being open won't have any impact on particle dispersion or air flow. For air flow having the panels open and the roof closed will actually have a bigger positive impact on air flow than having the roof open.


Is there a study out there on that? Or just your opinion?


Try doing the math behind it and then look at how AMFAM will create a vortex. You can put this into a model and use smoke as a guide to see how the air flow is impacted.

For particle dispersion it doesn't matter if the roof is open or closed. The particles are going to disperse at the same rate. I would like to know how you think they would disperse differently with a roof open versus closed.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#50

Posted: February 19, 2021, 10:14 AM Post
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Proposal probably calls for the roof to be open just because it will sound better to call it 'outdoors' not 'indoors'. Every limiter gives bigger gatherings to outdoor events...so of course they don't want to do something that would technically make the indoors.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#51

Posted: February 19, 2021, 10:19 AM Post
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At least you'll probably want to be wearing a mask for the first 6 weeks of the season.


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#52

Posted: February 19, 2021, 10:48 AM Post
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nate82 said:
PeaveyFury said:
nate82 said:
The roof being open won't have any impact on particle dispersion or air flow. For air flow having the panels open and the roof closed will actually have a bigger positive impact on air flow than having the roof open.


Is there a study out there on that? Or just your opinion?


Try doing the math behind it and then look at how AMFAM will create a vortex. You can put this into a model and use smoke as a guide to see how the air flow is impacted.

For particle dispersion it doesn't matter if the roof is open or closed. The particles are going to disperse at the same rate. I would like to know how you think they would disperse differently with a roof open versus closed.


So you've put it into a model? We'd love to see your work.

In my mind, you're arguing the equivalent of 'inside your house is the same as outdoors as long as you have your windows open'. Which no one has claimed to be accurate or safe, to my knowledge.

If you make a matter-of-fact statement like "The roof being open won't have any impact on particle dispersion or air flow.", please be expected to cite your sources or show your work. Absent that, "won't have any impact" is simply your opinion, not fact. Which is fine if that's the case, but it just should be presented as such, IMO.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#53

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:17 AM Post
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PeaveyFury said:
'inside your house is the same as outdoors as long as you have your windows open'. .


As a spring tree pollen allergy sufferer, this is absolutely true. [laughing]


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#54

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:20 AM Post
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I'm not seeing how this is even remotely comparable to a 2000 sq ft house with a bunch of tiny rooms within and the windows open. It's a 50k capacity building with 10-15k people inside and a 330' foot roof. The square footage of AmFam is 1.2 million. And you have to wear a mask. So if I sneeze on the club level all my snot particles get sucked up into the night sky I guess.

Seems like a non-existent or infinitesimally small "safety measure" for an awful lot of comfort sacrifice.


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Online  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#55

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:30 AM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
Seems like a non-existent or infinitesimally small "safety measure" for an awful lot of comfort sacrifice.


Or maybe it's not infinitesimally small?


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#56

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:38 AM Post
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So, to summarize things.

Sitting on a full airplane shoulder to shoulder with a mask on for the duration of the flight = very low risk of transmission.

Sitting in a 1.2 million square foot stadium in pods at 1/3 capacity, with a mask on, with the ceiling hundreds of feet above your head = risky enough that you must open the roof.

I'm willing to bet my life savings that it is an infinitesimally small if not non-existent risk. Lots of domed stadiums just had football games. It was fine. This is simply required to pass this off as an outdoor event. It's about as logical as building a tent next to a restaurant that isn't allowed to open.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#57

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:49 AM Post
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There are several ways that aerosols can disperse...diffusion is just one pathway. If you close the roof you are obviously going to be reducing advection of aerosols. Running the HVAC at full blast isn't going to do anything near what the wind and outdoor air currents can do to disperse aerosols.

This should be pretty obvious based on what happens inside of the AmClamshell on a hot summer evening when they have to keep the roof closed due to the threat of rain.

Plus the highly-contagious variants are going to be around this summer which we may or may not be immune to after vaccination. So yeah...the roof isn't going to be closed. It will be funny when the Brewers have a rain delay.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#58

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:52 AM Post
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owbc said:
There are several ways that aerosols can disperse...diffusion is just one pathway. If you close the roof you are obviously going to be reducing advection of aerosols. Running the HVAC at full blast isn't going to do anything near what the wind and outdoor air currents can do to disperse aerosols.

This should be pretty obvious based on what happens inside of the AmClamshell on a hot summer evening when they have to keep the roof closed due to the threat of rain.

Plus the highly-contagious variants are going to be around this summer which we may or may not be immune to after vaccination. So yeah...the roof isn't going to be closed. It will be funny when the Brewers have a rain delay.



"The vastness of the stadium itself, which spans 1.2 million square feet with a retractable roof and retractable panels, which the Brewers would keep open more often in 2021 – even in colder weather, as long as there is no precipitation."

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/brewer ... mily-field


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#59

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:53 AM Post
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They already said it WILL be closed for precipitation, so, yes, it will be closed...and must not be that dangerous to do so either.


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Offline  Re: Fans at 2021 games
#60

Posted: February 19, 2021, 11:53 AM Post
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brooks_quichenick said:
owbc said:
There are several ways that aerosols can disperse...diffusion is just one pathway. If you close the roof you are obviously going to be reducing advection of aerosols. Running the HVAC at full blast isn't going to do anything near what the wind and outdoor air currents can do to disperse aerosols.

This should be pretty obvious based on what happens inside of the AmClamshell on a hot summer evening when they have to keep the roof closed due to the threat of rain.

Plus the highly-contagious variants are going to be around this summer which we may or may not be immune to after vaccination. So yeah...the roof isn't going to be closed. It will be funny when the Brewers have a rain delay.



"The vastness of the stadium itself, which spans 1.2 million square feet with a retractable roof and retractable panels, which the Brewers would keep open more often in 2021 – even in colder weather, as long as there is no precipitation."

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/brewer ... mily-field


Ohhhh, so they are planning on closing the roof if it rains. Interesting.


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