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Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]

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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 7:03 AM Post
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Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
BruisedCrew said:
The Brewers disappointing playoff series and this conversation raise a question that has come up before.

As a fan, would you rather have a team that is consistently in the running for the playoffs and gets into them on a somewhat regular basis, or one that is consistently below .500 but breaks through once to win the World Series?

Some examples are comparing the Braves of the 80’s and 90’s who won their division almost every year but won one World Series to the Marlins who won two World Series but pretty much stunk every other year in large part because they couldn’t afford to keep good players.

Or the Royals who managed to break through to reach two World Series and win one, but have had no other playoff appearances since 1985 and not even that many teams with winning records.

Hypothetically, would you rather have your team be under .500 for 10 or 20 years except for 1 year of winning the World Series, or have consistent winning teams that make the playoffs half or more of the time, including several division championships and a few LCS appearances?

I know from past discussions on this that I am in the minority, but I would take the consistent winning teams. I have seen my favorite teams in several sports win championships, and as fun as that is, the real enjoyment I get from following sports is the day to day and week to week fun of following the season. That is so much more enjoyable when my team has a realistic chance to capture the big prize.


I too would rather we have consistent winning teams. The more opportunities you have your odds are better to win it all eventually. And it is a hell of lot more fun to follow a team in contention every year than watching your favorite team have fire sales and stink most of the time like the Marlins and others.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 8:36 AM Post
Posts: 1150
Pugger said:
BruisedCrew said:
The Brewers disappointing playoff series and this conversation raise a question that has come up before.

As a fan, would you rather have a team that is consistently in the running for the playoffs and gets into them on a somewhat regular basis, or one that is consistently below .500 but breaks through once to win the World Series?

Some examples are comparing the Braves of the 80’s and 90’s who won their division almost every year but won one World Series to the Marlins who won two World Series but pretty much stunk every other year in large part because they couldn’t afford to keep good players.

Or the Royals who managed to break through to reach two World Series and win one, but have had no other playoff appearances since 1985 and not even that many teams with winning records.

Hypothetically, would you rather have your team be under .500 for 10 or 20 years except for 1 year of winning the World Series, or have consistent winning teams that make the playoffs half or more of the time, including several division championships and a few LCS appearances?

I know from past discussions on this that I am in the minority, but I would take the consistent winning teams. I have seen my favorite teams in several sports win championships, and as fun as that is, the real enjoyment I get from following sports is the day to day and week to week fun of following the season. That is so much more enjoyable when my team has a realistic chance to capture the big prize.


I too would rather we have consistent winning teams. The more opportunities you have your odds are better to win it all eventually. And it is a hell of lot more fun to follow a team in contention every year than watching your favorite team have fire sales and stink most of the time like the Marlins and others.

It's an interesting discussion. I lean toward staying in contention, because it's a long season and a good team makes the summers that much more enjoyable. And those who say they want the winner get spoiled immediately. How many Cubs and Red Sox fans said, "Just give me ONE World Series in my life!" and quickly became impatient for the second one.

Had a similar discussion with my friend. His son was all-conference and all-state in football, but the team lost in the playoffs. My son was a reserve who got to play some, but the teams he was on won state two years in a row. Who had the better experience?


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 9:18 AM Post
Posts: 4801
Pugger said:
BruisedCrew said:
The Brewers disappointing playoff series and this conversation raise a question that has come up before.

As a fan, would you rather have a team that is consistently in the running for the playoffs and gets into them on a somewhat regular basis, or one that is consistently below .500 but breaks through once to win the World Series?

Some examples are comparing the Braves of the 80’s and 90’s who won their division almost every year but won one World Series to the Marlins who won two World Series but pretty much stunk every other year in large part because they couldn’t afford to keep good players.

Or the Royals who managed to break through to reach two World Series and win one, but have had no other playoff appearances since 1985 and not even that many teams with winning records.

Hypothetically, would you rather have your team be under .500 for 10 or 20 years except for 1 year of winning the World Series, or have consistent winning teams that make the playoffs half or more of the time, including several division championships and a few LCS appearances?

I know from past discussions on this that I am in the minority, but I would take the consistent winning teams. I have seen my favorite teams in several sports win championships, and as fun as that is, the real enjoyment I get from following sports is the day to day and week to week fun of following the season. That is so much more enjoyable when my team has a realistic chance to capture the big prize.


I too would rather we have consistent winning teams. The more opportunities you have your odds are better to win it all eventually. And it is a hell of lot more fun to follow a team in contention every year than watching your favorite team have fire sales and stink most of the time like the Marlins and others.


Same here. The best part of baseball is the everyday experience. The ultimate experience would be to finish it off once in a while but it isn't the only part that makes a season enjoyable. I'll add that I also think consistently good teams is the way to finish the quest. I know the "would you rather" argument is a hypothetical but, as we learned in 2011, the reality is neither approach is a guarantee.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 10:15 AM Post
Posts: 100
Are they really doing that? I hope not. It's time to let 1982 go.[/quote]

Not saying the team has to do a celebration. But even if the Brewers win multiple World Series in the coming years, I'll never let 1982 go (or the 2-3 years leading up to that year). That was a great time in my life that I will always remember. That was also a really fun team![/quote]

I remember that team fondly as well. However, there are a lot of Brewers fans out there that weren't even born yet during that special time so to them it is ancient history.[/quote]

I really feel for them. Baseball was so much more enjoyable back then. The 3TO stuff is really making baseball boring. The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 11:37 AM Post
Posts: 1587
In the NFL the Packers are pretty much the poster child of playing the long game and making the playoffs every year rather than going all in for one season at the expense of future seasons. It's been more glaring as Rodgers career is closer to the end and maybe is at the heart of the feud between him and management. I was in support of trading Rodgers this offseason as this last NFCC failure really soured me on our chances to get it done with him anymore. But the season is here and I happy he is back and we are winning so maybe calling these things after a playoff failure isn't such a great time.

It was a fun ride this year, I was worried about the offense being our undoing and now that it happened seems obvious that it was going to be an issue when we hit playoff quality pitching. Unlike the Packers hard to criticize the Brewers for not spending in an unlevel playing field so making the playoffs as much as possible is probably our only ticket in. It sucks, I really wish the Brewers would see this pitching staff as their chance to really raise payroll and get it done but I am sure they will make some of their usual moves and I will be optimistic next spring again. It's not like they didn't try to add the big bat or even Scherzer, just again they are at a disadvantage even when the are willing to spend the resources as the big markets and coasts are just more attractive destinations for guys who can choose where they go.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 1:55 PM Post
Posts: 715
sixtolezcano16 said:
The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 16, 2021, 4:21 PM Post
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timpep said:
sixtolezcano16 said:
The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.



Yeah, it's probably actually opposite of what he said to be honest.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 17, 2021, 9:10 AM Post
Posts: 4801
If today's players could bunt the extreme shifts wouldn't exist. That would be an example of a skill today's players don't have that players 20 years ago did. I don't know if it's a skill that they don't develop or if it's one they don't look for when looking for players but it's pretty obviously not something today's player does like yesteryear. FWIW I think it's also something that's going to come into vogue once again. As is hitting the other way, moving players over, stealing bases and maybe even hitting for average. Just because baseball went 3TO for a couple decades doesn't mean it's going to be that way forever. I don't think we have to change a bunch of rules to make it that way either. As pitching and defense evolves hitting is going to have to change to keep up.

There needs to be a King Thames version of the bible.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 17, 2021, 9:23 AM Post
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20 - 30 years ago, every pitcher on a staff didn't throw 97+. Bunting is hard when every pitcher is throwing 97 with movement. There's this idea that guys should just bunt. Even if you're proficient at bunting, just laying one down wherever you want is difficult when you have a never ending army of guys coming out of the pen who have the stuff that we see nowadays.

Kolten Wong is a proficient bunter, and came up the other night and popped one up to the catcher.

The other thing is you're giving up an at bat for a whatever % chance to at most get one base. I don't want to change rules, I'd hate to get rid of the shift, and I think baseball needs to change, but I don't think bunting is the way offenses need to go about it.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 17, 2021, 10:34 AM Post
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I'll give you bunting, but there are reasons for that as well (which RoCo outlined above)

What other skills are the players of yesteryear better than today's players?

The game has changed so much, I think saying that they were better or worse decades ago just isn't accurate.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 17, 2021, 9:58 PM Post
Posts: 3073
turborickey said:
timpep said:
sixtolezcano16 said:
The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.



Yeah, it's probably actually opposite of what he said to be honest.



Yount said in the booth something like this a few years back… if he had to see 95 nightly, he might just be a .230 hitter.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 17, 2021, 10:15 PM Post
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rickh150 said:

Yount said in the booth something like this a few years back… if he had to see 95 nightly, he might just be a .230 hitter.



I think he was being nice (to a degree).

Hitting against that kind of speed and movement is definitely dragging batting averages down (as we are seeing). If guys like Molitor, Yount, Brett, Boggs, were playing now, they'd still be the good hitters that they were, comparatively against their current peers. Of that, I have little doubt.

A guy like Wade Boggs might strike out 60 - 70 times a season instead of the 40-50 or so we were used to seeing from him back in the 80's, but he'd still be the type of guy we'd say "he makes good contact and carries a good average". IMO of course.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 18, 2021, 5:48 PM Post
Posts: 100
timpep said:
sixtolezcano16 said:
The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.


You have players that absolutely can’t hit the other way. My goodness, how many time did I hear someone complain that Avi could never go the other way when they almost had 4 infielder on that side of the field. Base running was much more of an art back then aS well. Same as BA and OBP.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 18, 2021, 6:39 PM Post
Posts: 715
sixtolezcano16 said:
timpep said:
sixtolezcano16 said:
The skill level of today’s players is so much lower today than even 10-15 years ago.


You think players in general are worse at the game than they were 10-15 years ago? I'd love your reasoning on this one.


You have players that absolutely can’t hit the other way. My goodness, how many time did I hear someone complain that Avi could never go the other way when they almost had 4 infielder on that side of the field. Base running was much more of an art back then aS well. Same as BA and OBP.


I would disagree entirely amount obp. Batting average is lower because the game had changed and people started realizing walking a ton and hitting bombs was just as good as hitting .300. The base running.. I agree people take less risks, but again, it's because someone stealing 40 bases and getting caught 15 times is actually a negative. Players probably could try to hit the other way, but again, out simply doesn't work as often as trying to pull it hard, probably didn't back then either, but statisticians hadn't figured it out yet.

Is the game different? Yes.
Less enjoyable to watch? Arguably.
Players worse? No, just different skill sets making the money.

I'd accept an argument that "the stat guys" have overcorrected and we'll see a slight shift back, but that's just the game as it always has been.


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 19, 2021, 10:11 AM Post
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Any other season seat holders get the residual of the playoff ticket deposit returned yet?


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 20, 2021, 11:10 AM Post
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Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM
PrinceFielderx1 Said:
If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.


Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 20, 2021, 11:20 AM Post
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torts said:
Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee



but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 20, 2021, 12:28 PM Post
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turborickey said:
torts said:
Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee



but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.


I mean... I dont care about 1982? I dont see why that matters, the league is not the same as it was 40 years ago. baseball has expanded, the brewers have switched leagues. if in the expanded, reshuffled league, teams like Tampa, KC and Cleveland have made it, the Brewers have just as likely of a shot.

Posted: July 10, 2014, 12:30 AM
PrinceFielderx1 Said:
If the Brewers don't win the division I should be banned. However, they will.


Last visited: September 03, 2014, 7:10 PM


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 20, 2021, 12:37 PM Post
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torts said:
turborickey said:
torts said:
Look, if teams like tampa and Kansas City and Cleveland can make the world series, there is zero reason Milwaukee can't also. I always hold out hope that this is the year, and if other small market/payroll franchises can do it, so can Milwaukee



but how has that worked out in the last 40 years?

I mean, it's been since 1982 that we made that trip to the WS.


I mean... I dont care about 1982? I dont see why that matters, the league is not the same as it was 40 years ago. baseball has expanded, the brewers have switched leagues. if in the expanded, reshuffled league, teams like Tampa, KC and Cleveland have made it, the Brewers have just as likely of a shot.


82 doesn't matter, I was giving your post some context. We haven't been in the WS since 1982, something is wrong with that. It matters because you are hanging your hat on 3 small market teams that had some success against the odds. That surely doesn't mean that all small market teams will see that same success.

If the current system is set up so that small market teams "might" make the WS every 40 years or so, then your positive outlook becomes a little sad.

I hope KC enjoyed their little run, because there is a chance they never sniff the WS again.

What TB does is just crazy, but somehow they find ways.

Is Cleveland considered a small market team? I guess I've never considered them small market...

"I'm sick of runnin' from these wimps!" Ajax - The WARRIORS


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Offline  Re: Season’s Over [Therapy Thread]
Posted: October 20, 2021, 1:18 PM Post
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There are a lot of large market teams that have also quite simply drafted a lot better than Milwaukee, particularly when it comes to offense. We can make lots of noise about the uneven playing field and it is valid, but for all the spending the Dodgers have done they have also drafted incredibly well and been an overall very well-run team.

And yes CLE is small market.


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