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Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed

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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#1

Posted: June 26, 2007, 5:32 PM Post
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Suprised no one has posted this yet but Bush was available in the pen today and either him or Vargas will make the next start on Sunday against the Cubs. Yo will get one more start on Friday and then move to the pen to save his arm for later in the season.

To me this is a smart move and should pay off down the stretch and for Yo's career.

LINK

If this has been posted elsewhere or needs to be in another thread, lock this one up.


(Updated thread title -1992casey)


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#2

Posted: June 26, 2007, 6:04 PM Post
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I believe this was being discussed in a different Yo thread, but that was before it became "official." Not sure whether they'll want to lock it.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that it will be Bush starting on Sunday and Vargas being skipped.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#3

Posted: June 26, 2007, 11:37 PM Post
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Vargas struggles to go 5.1 IP most days so I have to assume he'll end up in the pen if Yo stays a starter.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#4

Posted: June 26, 2007, 11:53 PM Post
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Vargas might put up a 4.0 ERA as a reliever. Not very exciting. The only thing that gives him any significant value is that he can go 5 innings.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#5

Posted: June 27, 2007, 12:35 AM Post
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Vargas also seems to be able to pull the Houdini act and pitch tougher from the stretch. Maybe he should just always pitch from the stretch?

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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#6

Posted: June 27, 2007, 12:50 AM Post
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He can only go 5 solid innings now, but short of sending him down, starting him is the only way that he'll be able to develop the ability to go 6+ innings. He needs to consistently pitch in order to progress as a player and I don't think he'll be able to do that coming out of the pen as a long guy.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#7

Posted: June 27, 2007, 12:50 AM Post
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Am I the minority here who doesn't want to see Yo go to the pen? I would rather he start in AAA then come out of the pen in the bigs. I can't understand why you would take a 21 year old kid who understands how to start, and work through an entire game, and throw him into an MLB situation he is unfamiliar with. It's beyond me. Either let him keep starting up here, or send him down to AAA to start and save his arm. Not a fan of this bullpen business one bit.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#8

Posted: June 27, 2007, 12:58 AM Post
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While I see your point and agree somewhat this is still baseball. You pick the ball up and throw it to a spot. It's not like he's going to go through overload and assume the fetal position on the mound because he's coming in in the sixth.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#9

Posted: June 27, 2007, 12:59 AM Post
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He can only go 5 solid innings now, but short of sending him down, starting him is the only way that he'll be able to develop the ability to go 6+ innings.


Vargas is what he is. He's 29. The chances that he'll suddenly become more than a pretty good 5th starter is close to nil.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#10

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:19 AM Post
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True, the chances are slim for Vargas to improve too much. Yo has so much upside that it's either starting in the bigs or down in AAA and he has shown too much to be sent down. Bush has been shakey and Vargas has a limited innings range. I would rather take 5 good innings each time out than a good game followed by a poor one from Bush.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#11

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:34 AM Post
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If this has been posted elsewhere or needs to be in another thread, lock this one up.
As far as I can tell, this thread isn't a duplicate. It's purpose is to discuss one guy going 11 days between starts.

However, it is one of those topics that could 'spill over', becoming a catch-all thread and a 'de facto' duplicate.

If your post is a better fit for one of these threads, please consider using it?

Who's better than whom: Gallardo is Better Than Bush/Vargas

Who should be bumped from the roster: When Capuano comes back & assuming Yo stays...

Yo's innings restrictions: Gallardo and limiting his innings

That’s the only thing Chicago’s good for: to tell people where Wisconsin is.
-- Sigmund Snopek


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#12

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:41 AM Post
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Yost is becoming more like Earl Weaver with every decision! Earl worked most of his young pitchers through the pen and spot starting until they adjusted to the rigors of the major leagues. It's working for Villy, it will work for Yovani.

Vargas didn't pitch particularly well from the pen in April. His value is as a starter, both the Brewers or in trade. He's made 14 starts, averaging 5-1/3 ip per start, with a 4.10 ERA against a league average of 4.26. His K rate as a starter in 8 K's per 9ip. Almost every team in MLB would be ecstatic with that from a back of the rotation starter. He'd be the Ace of the Cardinals' staff. The Twins or Blue Jays should be on the phone to Doug this afternoon.

Also, he's pitched much better away than home, probably due his long ball give-up tendencies. With Shea, Petco, or Safeco, or the A's (whatever the name of that place is!) as his home park, he'd have an ERA under 4. League average starters with a good health reacord are tremendously valuable. Just ask Jeff Suppan.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#13

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:56 AM Post
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I think Vargas has done a great job for the Brewers this year. I really do not want to rebeat the dead horse that is Vargas v. Bush. Speaking purely to results -- How many teams in MLB have a better 5th pitcher than Vargas? -- and again, I am not talking about potentials or projections. There has to be a team that we can move Vargas to. The fact that the Brewers are 11-2 in his starts has to be something that some team will take a chance over-valuing.

Vargas might put up a 4.0 ERA as a reliever. Not very exciting.

No it is not. My big problem with moving Vargas to the pen is that it would compromise his biggest asset as I see it -- his trade value. If we want to keep Bush as a Brewer past 2007, I would rather move him to the pen for now, and move him out later (assuming one of them gets moved for Yo).

If it is a foregone conclusion that Vargas will walk at the end of 2007 -- assuming that there is a trade that we can make -- I'd rather keep Vargas's value high and flip him.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#14

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:59 AM Post
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Vargas will not walk. He's is under arby for another two seasons. It just makes little sense for the Brewers to pay him $3-5 million to be the Brewer's 7th or 8th best pitcher so he'll likely be traded.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#15

Posted: June 27, 2007, 2:08 AM Post
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Claudio's arby status helps a lot should the team decide to deal him. If he were able to walk, the only in-season trade options would be to deal him to contenders. He can go to anybody.

That’s the only thing Chicago’s good for: to tell people where Wisconsin is.
-- Sigmund Snopek


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#16

Posted: June 27, 2007, 2:15 AM Post
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Claudio's arby status helps a lot should the team decide to deal him. If he were able to walk, the only in-season trade options would be to deal him to contenders. He can go to anybody.

Right -- It seems to me that the only team that he won't be on for sure in 2008 is the Brewers. If that is truly the case, then why devalue him by moving him to the pen, where just about any other team can use him, both because of his skills and contract situation.

If DM plans to offer him arby and then have him aboard next year -- then I am less hesitant to move him to the BP.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#17

Posted: June 27, 2007, 3:17 AM Post
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The best reason not to start Yo all year is his health. It's fun to poke fun at the Cubs for how they handled Prior and Wood, but how good would the Cubs be with those 2 guys in the rotation? In no way do I want Milwaukee to repeat the same mistake they made with Nuegy, or the Cubs made with Prior and Wood, and the Giants may make with Lincecum.

A healthy career for Yo is much more important to me than 200+ innings of him this year.

"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#18

Posted: June 27, 2007, 1:57 PM Post
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Haven't seen this anywhere else. Bush gets the start Sunday:

Quote:
Yovani Gallardo will start Friday's series opener against the Cubs, then will report for bullpen duty until further notice. Ben Sheets will start Saturday in Chicago and Yost named Dave Bush to start Sunday over Claudio Vargas.



LINK

Exactly how I wanted it all to work out.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#19

Posted: June 27, 2007, 2:00 PM Post
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Was hoping Cappy would get the start Sunday. Bush hanging his curveballs in Wrigley scares me. Thankfully he's matched with a guy we can also mash, Marquis.


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Offline  Bush or Vargas to Pen: Yo starts Fri, Bush Sun, Vargas Wed
#20

Posted: June 27, 2007, 2:07 PM Post
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Russ, did you notice that the article was posted at 3:33 EDT? That's before Bush pitched today. It'll be interesting to see what the next article says. Image

That’s the only thing Chicago’s good for: to tell people where Wisconsin is.
-- Sigmund Snopek


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