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Pick your set-up man

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Offline DougJones43 Pick your set-up man
#1

Posted: June 25, 2007, 1:38 PM Post
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There have been rumblings lately on this board that Turnbow should be replaced as the set-up man. Assuming that we don't trade for any bullpen help, I think that the logical competetion for the role would be Carlos Villanueva. If the Brewers decide to keep Villanueva in the bullpen for the longterm, who would you like to see as the primary set-up pitcher, and why?

For reference, here is a comparison of their 2007 stats:
 <span style="text-decoration:underline">IP</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">ERA</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">WHIP</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">vsOPS</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">K/9</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">K/BB</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">G/F</span> Turnbow 33.2 4.01 1.16 .558 10.96 2.73 1.30 Villanueva 51.2 2.79 1.20 .667 8.19 2.14 0.81


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Offline DHonks Pick your set-up man
#2

Posted: June 25, 2007, 1:47 PM Post
Posts: 8379
I'd rather have Villanueva throw the 7th and 8th one day, while Turnbow sets up the next two.
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Offline sbrylski Pick your set-up man
#3

Posted: June 25, 2007, 1:54 PM Post
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I'd rather have Villanueva throw the 7th and 8th one day, while Turnbow sets up the next two.

Bingo.

Or how about Gallardo? Why not just let Gallardo and Villanueva handle the 7th and 8th innings. One 2+ inning game, two days off. That leaves one game of three days where Turnbow, Wise, and are needed, if we have a few close games in a row.
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Offline razzzorsharp Pick your set-up man
#4

Posted: June 25, 2007, 1:57 PM Post
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T-Bow.
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Offline sweepscc Pick your set-up man
#5

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:05 PM Post
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How about Bush. Perfect set up man.
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Offline Hammer Pick your set-up man
#6

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:05 PM Post
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Parra. All joking aside I would rather have Chuckie Newhouse (Carlos V) in the role. I realize that we'd need to find a new long man but he has the stones and the stuff to thrive in that spot...'


Edit: Bush has the look...that is for sure. I wouldn't want to face the "serial killer" in a one inning stint. People will probably bring up the fact that he has had issues in the 1st inning but when he knows that he will only need 3 outs he could dial it up a little bit more and let it fly...
@BrewCrewCritic on Twitter "Racing Sausages" - "Huh?"
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Offline wisportswriter Pick your set-up man
#7

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:32 PM Post
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T-Bow.

Wouldn't using CV in a setup role take him further away from being a starter? Isn't he expected to be a starter again some day? Am I wrong on that? Why I am asking so many questions?
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Offline DougJones43 Pick your set-up man
#8

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:48 PM Post
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Wouldn't using CV in a setup role take him further away from being a starter?

Probably.


Isn't he expected to be a starter again some day?

I don't know. Maybe. That's why I posed this as a hypothetical, assuming the Brewers had decided to keep him in a bullpen role for the foreseeable future.
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Offline TheCrew07 Pick your set-up man
#9

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:50 PM Post
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I would rather they go with the hot hand. If Villy pitches the 7th and mows em down, then let him have the 8th. I'm not big on all these defined roles, define the role for closer, get the most out of everyone else I say.
"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."
- Plato
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
- Plato


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Offline sweepscc Pick your set-up man
#10

Posted: June 25, 2007, 2:53 PM Post
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I agree with you, go with the hot hand. Let em get six guys out. And don't put T-bow in with a one run lead.
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Offline Hall4President Pick your set-up man
#11

Posted: June 25, 2007, 3:13 PM Post
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I think this thread gets at the root of it. It's funny how rigid Yost is with the bullpen and loose with the lineup.

Outside of Cordero being the closer, I'm not sure anyone should be an automatic in any situation. Both Villy and Turnbow have times where they fit. The one thing I'd like to see more of moving forward is a short leash when T-bow starts throwing the ball all over the joint.

It's just ironic how you can't mess with the 8th, 9th thing but you can change the lineup every day.
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Offline valpocrewsader Pick your set-up man
#12

Posted: June 25, 2007, 3:35 PM Post
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Location: Wind Lake, WI
FWIW...

 MAY IP ERA WHIP vsOPS K/9 K/BB G/F Turnbow 10.1 7.84 1.55 xxxx 6.97 xxxx xxxx Villanueva 22.1 2.42 1.03 xxxx 6.85 xxxx xxxx JUNE IP ERA WHIP vsOPS K/9 K/BB G/F Turnbow 11.0 2.45 1.00 xxxx 9.82 xxxx xxxx Villanueva 15.1 2.35 1.11 xxxx 8.80 xxxx xxxx


For me, this might be a case where stats don't tell the whole story. I'm just sick of Turnbow and his constantly tense, panicked look. (And jesus, stop walking people!!) Give me Villy and his calm, cool demeaner.

Or, better yet, go out and get someone better than both, DM.
"We all know he is going to be a flaming pile of Suppan by that time." -fondybrewfan
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Offline Brian the Automator Pick your set-up man
#13

Posted: June 25, 2007, 3:52 PM Post
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Earl Weaver says to go with the hot hand...
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Offline Never Outhustled Pick your set-up man
#14

Posted: June 25, 2007, 3:53 PM Post
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Or how about Gallardo? Why not just let Gallardo and Villanueva handle the 7th and 8th innings. One 2+ inning game, two days off. That leaves one game of three days where Turnbow, Wise, and are needed, if we have a few close games in a row.


I second the motion. I guess that makes it official.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"88.6% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot" Todd Snider

-Posted by the fan formerly known as X ellence. David Stearns has brought me back..
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Offline Ennder Pick your set-up man
#15

Posted: June 25, 2007, 4:13 PM Post
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How about Bush. Perfect set up man.


Bush has two problems with his game, one is that he has problems getting outs in the first inning his pitches and the other is that he struggles out of the stretch. He could easily be the worst option on the entire team for a setup man.
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Offline RU Rah Rah Pick your set-up man
#16

Posted: June 25, 2007, 10:20 PM Post
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Hey, T-Bow went out and got 4 outs in the 8th inning last night. He should get some props for going the extra mile there.
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Offline rluzinski Pick your set-up man
#17

Posted: June 26, 2007, 12:17 AM Post
Posts: 9308
For me, this might be a case where stats don't tell the whole story.

I don't see how carving up the small samples into even smaller ones paints a clearer a pitcher.

Turnbow has blown up a few times but I'm not sure what people expect from him. He's a good enough but not great reliever who prone to blowing up on occasion. As a fan, I'd rather suffer through some tense situations if it means an overall better option than the alternative.

I don't think think Villy is obviously better than Turnbow. Where Villy beats him is in his ability to go more than 1 inning. Making Villy the new setup guy negates that advantage. If Villy hadn't been up in the order last night, I'd like to think Yost would have used Villy in the 8th last night. That would be a perfect way to use him, IMO.
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Offline TheCrew07 Pick your set-up man
#18

Posted: June 26, 2007, 12:29 AM Post
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Ohh yea, about Villy... if he's one of the best 5 pitchers on the team, he better be in the rotation where we can get 200+ innings out of him. Limiting him to 70-80 innings every year would be a considerable waste of resources in my opinion.

Unless you bring up someone who's been injury prone like Parra and make him a starter next year, then it doesn't hurt to have that insurance. Long term though, I hope Villy is in the rotation.
"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."
- Plato
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
- Plato


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Offline JohnBriggs12 Pick your set-up man
#19

Posted: June 26, 2007, 12:39 AM Post
Posts: 12644
While I think Villanueva would be a great starter, I wouldn't be shocked if he's the closer in 2008, with T-Bow still in the setup role. Trevor Hoffman and Doug Jones before him have been premium closers with a changeup as their out pitch.
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Offline Kraft4a3 Pick your set-up man
#20

Posted: June 26, 2007, 12:47 AM Post
Posts: 175
Just checking out the league leaders in holds just to get a sample top setup men. Turnbow's stats hold up with anyone's. I'll take T-bow until he starts blowing two in a week instead of one every month.

Holds
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