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Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In

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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#21

Posted: September 14, 2006, 1:00 AM Post
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I've never understood why there's a discrepency between a player's real height and their listed height. Why do the programs always exaggerate?

If we can list Prince Fielder as 6' tall, why can't we list him as hitting .300 with 30 HRs?


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#22

Posted: September 14, 2006, 3:38 AM Post
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Didn't we just draft a guy who was listed as 6' 0" (Jeremy Jeffress) in the first round?

Athletes are athletes, and while size helps, it's not all. How many guys have ideal size or "body type" who never make it? And in terms of height, the difference between 5' 11" and 6' 1" isn't a lot when judging height from a distance.

Wasn't the knock on shorter pitcher the fact that they have maximum effort to reach top velocity. Well if you can hit 94-97 mph on the gun at 5' 11", you've overcome that hurdle, and then your success is probably as good as the next guy. The second knock is that smaller frames tend to "wear down". But a guy like Inman is listed as 200-210 lbs, which is not small.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#23

Posted: September 14, 2006, 3:56 AM Post
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inman's build is similar to sheets' in 2003-2004


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#24

Posted: September 14, 2006, 7:32 AM Post
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This whole focus on height by BA is ridiculous. Oswalt and Pedro are both under 6' and easily among the top 5 pitchers in the game the last 5 years.

In the past, there was Tom Seaver (6'1") and Catfish Hunter who was 6'0". Both were first ballot Hall of Famers.

Sure I can't think of too many 5'8" great pitchers, but even if he's fudging a little I doubt Inman is shorter than Oswalt or Pedro.

By the way, check out Inman's photo on his player profile page. Notice the thick neck. The guy is well put together.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#25

Posted: September 14, 2006, 8:58 AM Post
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Yeah, the "only five pitchers" thing is misleading, since there are so many guys that are listed at an even 6' that aren't. Oswalt, Hudson, Sheets, etc. aren't 6', but for some reason there is a stigma when a guy is listed below that height, or something. It's like football players who are 280 or something being listed at 300, because it's more intimidating or something.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#26

Posted: September 14, 2006, 9:37 AM Post
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And the key word is listed.

colby, filthy, pogo, etc, you are all correct. I have a relatively small sample size, but the pitchers I've been around that are easily under 6'0 include Huston Street, Lance Cormier (now of Braves), and Curtis Leskanic. Jamie Shields of the DRays might be under 6', as I don't remember him towering over me like Casey Daigle, Doug Slaten, etc.

For reference, I'm 5'10 or 5'11" (on a good day, with shoes on). I had Leskanic by a good 2". Huston Street can't be more than 5'10" and 170. Yet I see he's listed at 6' and 190. I remember once seeing Leskanic listed at 6'1, which made me laugh.

What's funny is that it's not just pro sports, but college and high school. proportion is likely more important than listed size.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#27

Posted: September 14, 2006, 9:50 AM Post
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Maybe they measure from the base of the mound up?


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#28

Posted: September 14, 2006, 11:19 AM Post
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Maybe they measure from the base of the mound up?

that would have made shane nance about 4 foot 3 when he wasnt pitching


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#29

Posted: September 14, 2006, 11:38 AM Post
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that would have made shane nance about 4 foot 3 when he wasnt pitching

Oddly, that seems just about right.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#30

Posted: September 14, 2006, 12:26 PM Post
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the D-ray's sight says Kazmir is 6'0, I've seen other things that say he's 5'11, he's one of hte best young pitchers in baseball.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#31

Posted: September 14, 2006, 12:30 PM Post
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This is done because scouts would rather have an athlete than a baseball player. And you need to fit a certain profile to be an athlete. If a high school team lists their phenom pitcher at an honest 5'11" they'll see no scouts come by and may even have problems getting a college scholarship. List him as 6'2" and suddenly he's a top prospect.

So once a player is listed at a given height, you go changing it and suddenly more questions pop up. So you leave it be.

(I love how my 6'3" brother was 6'5" 210 for football and 6'5" 190 for basketball)


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#32

Posted: September 14, 2006, 2:32 PM Post
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I'd say Nance was more about 5'3" when I was around him.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#33

Posted: September 15, 2006, 12:57 AM Post
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Like Pedro Martinez is HUGE....

If he's 5'11", 180 lbs, I'll eat Kevin Mench's jockstrap for lunch.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#34

Posted: September 15, 2006, 3:47 AM Post
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I just remembered that a few of my collegues at Perfect Game wrote a couple of columns on shorter MLB players. Jerry Ford takes his stab on the subject in the first link, David Rawnsley in the second:

www.perfectgame.org/crack...5Fplayers/

www.perfectgame.org/crack...Fpitchers/

Nothing scientific in either one, just some breakdowns that are fun to look at.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#35

Posted: September 15, 2006, 3:49 AM Post
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Also, since this was somewhat spurred by the player of the year idea, and not to toot my own PG horn too much, but in my column this week I assembled a minor league All-Star team, taking the best players at their respective positions that have participated at Perfect Game events. Angel Salome was nominated as my catcher, as when doing the research for this story, it was impressive to see just how good Salome's numbers were in comparison to other prospective catchers:

www.perfectgame.org/crack...ar%5Fteam/


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#36

Posted: September 15, 2006, 4:35 AM Post
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not to toot my own PG horn too much

Colby, I'm sure everyone would agree with me that you've more than earned the right to toot your own horn as much as you see fit. :)


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#37

Posted: September 15, 2006, 9:50 PM Post
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You know you said MIGUEL Cabrera in that article instead of Orlando Cabrera. Does someone have a bit of Miguel Cabrera on their mind?? Seriously, with all the talk on here about good targets for our lustful eyes, why does Loria's version of a rich-man's Bill Hall (only because he could probably play shortstop if forced) never get mentioned as a viable target? I know he has to be one of the three most valuable commodities in baseball (ANY team could afford him and ANY team could use him...) Add to that the fact that, as of right now, he is well on his way to a HOF debate. But I digress. Fine piece of literature, good sir.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#38

Posted: September 16, 2006, 12:48 AM Post
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Thanks Frog, and UWRyan. I really need a proofreader :) .

Just to add to your thought, if there was any way that Miguel Cabrera became available, I would trade the farm, almost literally, to get him.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#39

Posted: September 18, 2006, 4:57 AM Post
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Baseball America's John Manuel is a good friend of Brewerfan and took the time to follow-up with us on this discussion, prompted initially by his online chat at BA:

Jim, I was just checking my Brewerfan.net info on the '06 draftees, and just ran into the comments I made about Will Inman in my chat. Sorry if I didn't answer your question. I will here, you can post it if you like:

Best tandem . . . I'd have to say close but for me I'd take (the Twins') Matt Garza and Kevin Slowey (just personal taste for me, I really like Slowey). That's very tough though; the more I think about it (which I really can't do in a chat, that's supposed to be quick-thinking answers, not ruminative), it's pretty close, and if sufficiently prodded, I could probably make that case. I guess I would like it better if I could be 100 percent sold on Inman and Gallardo being QUITE this good. Forgive me but I don't. I think they're both very good pitching prospects, but neither one is a No. 1 starter for me, and it sounds like Garza might just be.

Top 5 organization . . . I think so, there is a lot of talent, though when I think about it, it's more at lower levels than higher levels. Part of me thinks that's natural--we're always more optimistic about the low-level guys because they've had less time to screw up. The Brewers also have graduated a lot of talent lately, and the Triple-A and Double-A teams aren't quite as teeming with prospects as they have been. Gallardo spent half a season at double-A; same with Braun. Triple-A doesn't have a Corey Hart, a regular--I'm nitpicking here, I hope you understand. I like Gwynn, Rottino, Eveland, Z. Jackson a bit, Sarfate, just all more as role players, and Eveland and Jackson were not good as you know better than I do in their big league callups. I do seem to have underestimated Carlos Villanueva. But when I look at the bright side, I see prospects at every level, huge steps forward for Gallardo and Inman, good moves for Braun, Gwynn, Hammond, Villanueva, Dillard, Iribarren (the cork notwithstanding), B. Katin . . .Plus another solid draft, lots of raw talent. Lots to like at West Virginia. . . . Just a very deep organization, in my opinion, without having looked at all 30 as closely, it has the feel of a top 5 organization.

One last thing, but some people seem to imply in that chat that BA has something against short RHPs. We just did a cover story about this back in May (Jerry Crasnick wrote it, photos of Tim Lincecum, others used, Lincecum on the cover), explaining why SCOUTS have the bias, and why it's going away. We just report it; we're not scouts, and we're not exactly analysts either, we're reporters. In the blog-infested era we're in, people forget that sometimes. We're reporting what people in the know, scouts and managers and coaches and the like, tell us about Inman. With Inman, it's that he's short AND unconventional w/his delivery, and that's just something most scouts point out when they talk about him; he's different. That doesn't mean bad, it just means they have a harder time buying in.

I guess my main point is, I like Will Inman as a prospect, a lot more than I seemed to let on in that chat, but I just hesitate to put him in the "elite" category yet because he is a bit unconventional and I want to see him do it above the low Class A level. That's all.

Keep up the good work and thanks.


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Offline  Baseball America Chat -- Latest: BA's John Manuel Chimes In
#40

Posted: September 18, 2006, 11:39 AM Post
Posts: 8143
Thanks a lot for posting that Mass. And thanks to John for writing those comments/descriptions.

As was said in the other thread (I think by senatorshriv), I'd love to hear some assessment of the OFers in the system. I'd also love to hear thoughts of an expert on Dillard, Jones, Hammond, and Garrison


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