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Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)

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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 21, 2016, 7:51 PM Post
Posts: 1173
FVBrewerFan said:
CheezWizHed said:
Is this the first time in history that Toledo has been referred to as a nice thing?

Michigan and Ohio did fight over Toledo. Ohio won and Michigan was given the UP as a consolation prize. I don't think they will want to give up Toledo again. [wink]


I say we trade Fond du Lac to OH. Then move our AAA team to Toledo. AAA problems WHOAA SOLVVD


Hey now, leave Fondy out of this! Lol We were actually one vote away from being Wisconsin's capital!

Brewers & Mark A need to just buck up and care enough about their future to invest into it. Buy a team outright & forget about all the drama every couple of years. Move a team to Madison, it will make money, is a one hour drive away for call ups, and is a pretty neutral (offense & Pitching) to play come May. Even if not Madison, find somewhere & buy own team.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 21, 2016, 9:13 PM Post
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I wonder if he thinking of doing something like this.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 22, 2016, 11:31 AM Post
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If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.

This is a very serious problem and needs to be addressed immediately. Not in 2 years.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 22, 2016, 11:45 AM Post
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If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.


"Ruined" is a bit hyperbolic...

Hader certainly struggled without his best breaking pitches, but that isn't ruined. He didn't have a beautiful <2.00 ERA like Biloxi, but that is also not ruined.

Lopez also struggled because he relies on his breaking pitch heavily. But he also lost control of his FB, which is the main reason he was set back this year (and then sent back to Biloxi). Control of a FB can't be blamed on Colorado's rarified air.

The main danger of places like Brevard and Colorado is having people make bad habits to compensate for the environment. Having inflated results at Colorado isn't ruined, its expected.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 22, 2016, 11:52 AM Post
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well there is no good solution remaining, once Rochester reupped with the twins it was pretty apparent we were stuck in CS for 2 years.

I think the brewers need to spend 2017 figuirng out how they want to proceed (purchase a high A ball and triple A club, what markets to concentrate on),

i know they should have been doing this over the last 2 years, but apparently they didn't.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 22, 2016, 12:12 PM Post
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I don't think this is the tragedy that some have made it to be, and not to single out adambr2, but Colorado Springs didn't anything to Jorge, Jorge did it to himself. I actually think there's some value to pitching in Colorado Springs in learning how to overcome adversity and pitch in a different manner than one is used to.

If anything CS highlights the problem which so many of the Brewer's top pitching prospects face, none are particularly adept at controlling their FB and when you don't have secondary stuff to fall back on FB location becomes everything. Hader and Jungmann in particular work off the plate so much with their off speed that I think there's value in reinforcing the need for better FB control and command, and truthfully better control and command of all their pitches in general.

"You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation."
- Plato
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 22, 2016, 12:40 PM Post
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CheezWizHed said:
If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.


"Ruined" is a bit hyperbolic...

Hader certainly struggled without his best breaking pitches, but that isn't ruined. He didn't have a beautiful <2.00 ERA like Biloxi, but that is also not ruined.

Lopez also struggled because he relies on his breaking pitch heavily. But he also lost control of his FB, which is the main reason he was set back this year (and then sent back to Biloxi). Control of a FB can't be blamed on Colorado's rarified air.

The main danger of places like Brevard and Colorado is having people make bad habits to compensate for the environment. Having inflated results at Colorado isn't ruined, its expected.


I didn't say Colorado Springs ruined Hader, just Lopez. But I do stand by that. No, FB control can't be blamed on Colorado Springs air. But lack I
of break on a CB can. And once the cycle begins, and confidence is lost, it can lead to other problems.

Just because higher results at Colorado Springs is expected doesn't mean it doesn't get in a pitcher's head anyway.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga
Posted: September 24, 2016, 8:37 AM Post
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As it has been stated in other forums, I don't know how the current situation in Colorado Springs with a bad ballpark in altitude is good for any affiliate (which explains why the nearby Rockies left for Albuquerque). Albuquerque is probably a great comp for Lancaster in High-A.

Since it looks like Gord and company may have had no success moving out even into not very great situations in Las Vegas or Fresno, do you think the Brewers and/or the Elmore group would think way outside the box if the San Antonio situation is not going to happen? What about looking at geographically closer affiliates at lower levels that have great ballparks and strong attendance that may not be tied to the fact the parent club is nearby - Fort Wayne, IN? Obviously this would take some time to put together, but doesn't it make sense?


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 24, 2016, 11:15 AM Post
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Welcome to the board, balsamlaker. [smile]

Fort Wayne would be the smallest AAA location, coming in below Reno.

City         MSA             CSA
Reno 450,890 (2015) 579,668 (2010)
Fort Wayne 408,071 (2016) 569,636 (2016)

MSA = Metropolitan Statistical Area. CSA = Combined Statistical Area (which covers a broader area than MSA).

That’s the only thing Chicago’s good for: to tell people where Wisconsin is.
-- Sigmund Snopek


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 24, 2016, 3:15 PM Post
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The reason I chose Fort Wayne is it has a great stadium that draws a nice crowd without a local big league club affiliation. Obviously there would be other MWL choices that could also be intriguing whether it be Dayton, Kane County, Lansing, etc. I just thought Fort Wayne was the most interesting of all of them.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 24, 2016, 3:23 PM Post
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I just don't have a ton of confidence that Milwaukee can steal an affiliation like Louisville, Nashville, or Durham in 2018. Sadly (if it hasn't been torn down) I would prefer the Brewers AAA team play their games at "The Joe" in Huntsville in 2017. It may be a better ballpark than Colorado Springs even though it was suppose to be demolished last year.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 24, 2016, 4:07 PM Post
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Location: Kenosha, WI
adambr2 said:
I didn't say Colorado Springs ruined Hader, just Lopez. But I do stand by that.


He did better in Colorado Springs than on the road. Just a fun tidbit.


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Offline  Gord Ash Nashville Situation
Posted: September 25, 2016, 12:45 AM Post
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Why was Gord at fault for the Nashville Sounds no longer being a Brewers affiliate?


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 25, 2016, 1:45 AM Post
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zjl3 said:
Why was Gord at fault for the Nashville Sounds no longer being a Brewers affiliate?


No, not sure that's been implied.

This Journal-Sentinel article from April details the tough status the Brewers were in at AAA this year, with little hope for a move until 2020.

A separate J-S notes column includes this text:

Manatees moving: The Brewers' high Class A Brevard County affiliate is expected to move to a new venue in the Florida State League in 2017, most likely Osceola County Stadium. With the Washington Nationals moving to a new spring training site in West Palm Beach, Space Coast Stadium in Viera is expected to be designated for use other than affiliated baseball.

"They are going to need to relocate," said Gord Ash, the Brewers vice president for special projects. "We keep hearing Osceola."

The Brewers' player development contract with Brevard County expires after this season but they wish to keep their high Class A affiliate in the FSL. Therefore, they would seek to follow the Manatees to Osceola.


In likelihood, Ash was in a no-win situation, the Manatees knew that even before Kissimmee became a reality, they would be somewhere in Central Florida, which certainly piqued the interest of the Braves.

So it's a little unfair, but since his name is associated with the affiliate relationships, he becomes a bit of a fall guy for the fandom here on the forums.


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Offline  Re: Gord Ash Nashville Situation
Posted: September 25, 2016, 5:09 PM Post
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zjl3 said:
Why was Gord at fault for the Nashville Sounds no longer being a Brewers affiliate?

there is no blame towards gord on that. I think the frustration is that he was assigned to be in charge of "special projects" which was implied to improve their minor league affiliate outlook and the brewers are on the verge of the worst 2 affiliates in baseball.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 25, 2016, 6:55 PM Post
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Lancaster should not be considered one of the worst affiliates in baseball. Homers do fly out of the park in the desert, but it may also be the nicest park in the California League and likely much nicer than the Carolina Mudcats park. Colorado Springs has the double negative (that does not make a positive) of being very hitter-friendly and a bad park besides. Helena is not much better. Both of these teams (Colorado Springs and Helena) are owned by the same company.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 25, 2016, 7:53 PM Post
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from my point of view, i do not care about the quality of the park, only the fairness of the park and how well the brewers can gauge hitters and pitchers.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 27, 2016, 8:47 AM Post
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I didn't say Colorado Springs ruined Hader, just Lopez. But I do stand by that. No, FB control can't be blamed on Colorado Springs air. But lack I
of break on a CB can. And once the cycle begins, and confidence is lost, it can lead to other problems.

Just because higher results at Colorado Springs is expected doesn't mean it doesn't get in a pitcher's head anyway.


TheCrew summarized something I've tried to say in the past, but I think he summarized it better.

CS isn't an easy place to pitch and it adds stress to a pitcher. Take away a favorite pitch (CB) and see what the pitcher can do to compensate or manage. Hader seemed to adjust (not great, but he was adjusting at the end), but Lopez couldn't. CS exposed his lack of FB control. And perhaps a need to work on his mental adjustments, too.

CS isn't my ideal environment for AAA development (hitting especially), but if you have lemons, make lemonade; focus on using CS's strengths in developing players instead. Hopefully, coaches set the expectations when a pitcher comes to AAA (expect more hits and giving up more runs) as well as a plan of attack due to the thin air (focus on spotting FB, use a change-up, fewer CBs).

Once a pitcher gets to MLB, it only gets more difficult. Playing in any MLB ballpark (against MLB players) is going to be more difficult than playing at AAA CS.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 27, 2016, 9:39 AM Post
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Sheets could spot a fastball pretty well but when you took away his CB he wasn't anywhere near as good. You can talk about spotting your fastball but it's more than that. CS is going to make good pitchers look bad.

Fan is short for fanatic.
I blame Wang.


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Offline  Re: Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - San Antonio plan shelved (Post # 224)
Posted: September 27, 2016, 10:03 AM Post
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For what it's worth, both Davies and Guerra started the year at Colorado Springs. They weren't there long, but Guerra struggled, Davies didn't.

When Davies was called up, he struggled for a bit and figured it out. Guerra came up and was, for the most part, pretty good right away.

Peralta struggled mightily in the majors, then was no better at CS, at least results wise. Obviously he had made some improvements as evidenced by how he looks like an entirely different guy now, but the results at CS were still bad.

CS will affect every player differently, but I can't help but wonder if the increased difficulties at CS might not help a little bit for pitchers to prepare for the dramatic increase in difficulty that it is between pitching to AAA hitters and pitching to big league hitters.

I still think we're better off getting out of Colorado Springs, but Jungmann was struggling before getting sent down, and Lopez could've just had a bad year (he still struggled a lot after his demotion to AA, and he struggled on the road in AAA too).


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