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Tyrone Taylor

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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#21

Posted: November 13, 2018, 12:18 PM Post
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Roderick said:
Or it tells us they had room on the 40 man roster at this point in time. Nothing stopping them from removing him when a spot is needed.


Players added to the 40-man tend prior to Rule 5 tend to make it through their first full year on the 40-man without being removed.

Looking back, Brock Kjeldgaard was DFA'd on July 27th, eight months after being added to the 40-man, one of the few examples like that I could find since the start of the Melvin/Stearns era.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#22

Posted: November 13, 2018, 1:38 PM Post
Posts: 529
Location: Milwaukee
ctmyers said:
Humans Need Water said:
ctmyers said:
I remember Taylor taking BP a few years back in AZ and he didn't have any leg kick at all. I've never been a fan of that approach, because you're essentially trading power for bat control, unless you've got extremely strong wrists, shoulders and core. Watching a few games in CS this year, he has a more exaggerated leg kick which, when coupled with the thin air in CS, would substantially help with power numbers. He's definitely a good athlete. You see a lot of players with bad bodies who just aren't that athletic, but they are naturally good baseball players. Taylor is the opposite. He's an athlete transitioning to a good baseball player and that's likely the trend that Brewers front office is banking on.

A leg kick is solely a timing mechanism. Has nothing *directly* to do with generating power.


That's your opinion, but plenty of players attribute their leg kick and stride as a direct correlation to their power generation. To say that it's solely a timing mechanism is inaccurate.

No, it's not my opinion. It's fact. I also stated it has nothing *directly* to do with generating power. Meaning, it *indirectly* could play a role in helping someone get to their launch position, however, one doesn't need a leg kick to reach launch position. Hence, it's solely a timing mechanism.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#23

Posted: November 13, 2018, 6:15 PM Post
Posts: 1996
Leg kick is timing. Power directly comes from the power line (upper legs, hip, core) and then wrist/forearm for bat speed. Only thing leg kick can do is improve or wreck positioning to active the lower body. You need body weight loaded on back leg so leg kicks may better shift weight back. I use to bat from an open stance, and my kick was to shift weight back & help coil my body to be more explosive through the ball. I could do that from a closed stance as well but wasn’t as comfortable. Neither are reason for power. If you are using a kick for power, I’m sure the swing is inconsistent & feet aren’t consistently getting to right power position


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#24

Posted: November 13, 2018, 6:19 PM Post
Posts: 1996
Think the difference is more his load & how he actives his hips & core. Early in career with little kick, he may have just not loaded hips well. Leg kick now may force him to load more


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#25

Posted: November 15, 2018, 7:36 AM Post
Posts: 756
Mass Haas said:
Roderick said:
Or it tells us they had room on the 40 man roster at this point in time. Nothing stopping them from removing him when a spot is needed.


Players added to the 40-man tend prior to Rule 5 tend to make it through their first full year on the 40-man without being removed.

Looking back, Brock Kjeldgaard was DFA'd on July 27th, eight months after being added to the 40-man, one of the few examples like that I could find since the start of the Melvin/Stearns era.


That is good news. Hopefully he gets is shot this coming year. It just looks like with Braun in the outfield that their is no place for Santana and he does not make a very good 4th outfielder. Taylor fits that bill better than him and to an extent Broxton (although I really love Broxton's defense).


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#26

Posted: November 15, 2018, 5:51 PM Post
Posts: 470
Mr Southpaw said:
Mass Haas said:
Roderick said:
Or it tells us they had room on the 40 man roster at this point in time. Nothing stopping them from removing him when a spot is needed.


Players added to the 40-man tend prior to Rule 5 tend to make it through their first full year on the 40-man without being removed.

Looking back, Brock Kjeldgaard was DFA'd on July 27th, eight months after being added to the 40-man, one of the few examples like that I could find since the start of the Melvin/Stearns era.


That is good news. Hopefully he gets is shot this coming year. It just looks like with Braun in the outfield that their is no place for Santana and he does not make a very good 4th outfielder. Taylor fits that bill better than him and to an extent Broxton (although I really love Broxton's defense).


There's two main points I disagree with here.

1) why do we need to think of Braun as a primary starter? He will miss time due to injury and he hasn't been great the past two seasons. I know some of his statcast numbers were good so I don't think he's useless, but I also don't think he needs to be on the field 5-6 games a week.

2) why can't Santana be a 4th outfielder on this team? Typically you want someone who can play CF, but Yelich and Perez are both capable of making a spot start in CF or covering for a few days.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#27

Posted: November 15, 2018, 5:55 PM Post
Posts: 2820
ctmyers said:
Humans Need Water said:
ctmyers said:
I remember Taylor taking BP a few years back in AZ and he didn't have any leg kick at all. I've never been a fan of that approach, because you're essentially trading power for bat control, unless you've got extremely strong wrists, shoulders and core. Watching a few games in CS this year, he has a more exaggerated leg kick which, when coupled with the thin air in CS, would substantially help with power numbers. He's definitely a good athlete. You see a lot of players with bad bodies who just aren't that athletic, but they are naturally good baseball players. Taylor is the opposite. He's an athlete transitioning to a good baseball player and that's likely the trend that Brewers front office is banking on.

A leg kick is solely a timing mechanism. Has nothing *directly* to do with generating power.


That's your opinion, but plenty of players attribute their leg kick and stride as a direct correlation to their power generation. To say that it's solely a timing mechanism is inaccurate.



I would absolutely agree. Obviously timing is an important aspect of the leg kick, getting his foot down in time...etc...etc...but it can also help a ton with rotation and getting your hips more into it. At least that was what I found playing....at a MUCH lower level than anyone we talk about on here for a caveat, but still.

Just watch guys who are protecting with 2 strikes vs guys(Baez for example) who don't change their swing at all. They often abandon the leg kick in order stay alive or put the ball in play.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#28

Posted: December 10, 2018, 6:11 AM Post
Posts: 756
That is good news. Hopefully he gets is shot this coming year. It just looks like with Braun in the outfield that their is no place for Santana and he does not make a very good 4th outfielder. Taylor fits that bill better than him and to an extent Broxton (although I really love Broxton's defense).[/quote]

There's two main points I disagree with here.

1) why do we need to think of Braun as a primary starter? He will miss time due to injury and he hasn't been great the past two seasons. I know some of his statcast numbers were good so I don't think he's useless, but I also don't think he needs to be on the field 5-6 games a week.

2) why can't Santana be a 4th outfielder on this team? Typically you want someone who can play CF, but Yelich and Perez are both capable of making a spot start in CF or covering for a few days.[/quote]

1. If he is healthy, that is where he starts. If Jesus is the real deal, Braun will only get a few games at first base. Braun won't be a pinch hitter or a defensive replacement, must get our moneys worth.
2. He can be, Taylor just has more versatility.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#29

Posted: December 10, 2018, 11:23 AM Post
Posts: 529
Location: Milwaukee
long ball said:
There's two main points I disagree with here.

1) why do we need to think of Braun as a primary starter? He will miss time due to injury and he hasn't been great the past two seasons. I know some of his statcast numbers were good so I don't think he's useless, but I also don't think he needs to be on the field 5-6 games a week.

2) why can't Santana be a 4th outfielder on this team? Typically you want someone who can play CF, but Yelich and Perez are both capable of making a spot start in CF or covering for a few days.

We need to think of Braun as a primary starter because he is one and he swung the bat better than everyone last year except Yelich. Statcast, BABIP, eye test, etc etc all confirms this when applied in the right context. He hit 281/353/879 in the 2nd half (132 wrc+ with 9% BB rate and 16K rate) and, while he didn't hit for power in the playoffs, he was the most consistent hitter regarding making good contact (you can add 2 hits to his playoff total that Yelich took away from him - not the defense). Yes, he's going to miss games. But when he's healthy he's still hitting the ball hard and having good ABs. And while he's lost a step in the OF and on the bases he's nowhere near a liability (still an above average defender according to DRS). He has 2yrs left and as long as he's healthy he'll be the primary LF - people need to deal with this reality, which includes him still being productive.

You're correct on Santana being the 4th OF and clearly he has the best bat of any bench player. People are hung up on Taylor having more versatility than Santana, which he does, therefore someone like Taylor is a better fit but that's the wrong logic being applied given our current makeup. If Santana is filling in for Yelich then he's in RF. If Santana is filling in for Cain then he's in RF with Yelich moving to CF. If Santana is filling in for Braun then he's in RF with Yelich in LF (his original position). If there's an injury to an OF then the defense is now as I just described depending on who's injured then Perez bumps up to the 4th OF spot. Broxton is also still on this team and both of these guys are significantly better backups than Taylor. I think Taylor was added to the 40 as depth/insurance in case either, or both, of Santana/Broxton are traded. But a 4th OF would then be acquired, most likely a vet like a Granderson type.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#30

Posted: December 10, 2018, 11:54 AM Post
Posts: 4008
Location: New Berlin, WI
Humans Need Water said:
long ball said:
There's two main points I disagree with here.

1) why do we need to think of Braun as a primary starter? He will miss time due to injury and he hasn't been great the past two seasons. I know some of his statcast numbers were good so I don't think he's useless, but I also don't think he needs to be on the field 5-6 games a week.

2) why can't Santana be a 4th outfielder on this team? Typically you want someone who can play CF, but Yelich and Perez are both capable of making a spot start in CF or covering for a few days.

We need to think of Braun as a primary starter because he is one and he swung the bat better than everyone last year except Yelich. Statcast, BABIP, eye test, etc etc all confirms this when applied in the right context. He hit 281/353/879 in the 2nd half (132 wrc+ with 9% BB rate and 16K rate) and, while he didn't hit for power in the playoffs, he was the most consistent hitter regarding making good contact (you can add 2 hits to his playoff total that Yelich took away from him - not the defense). Yes, he's going to miss games. But when he's healthy he's still hitting the ball hard and having good ABs. And while he's lost a step in the OF and on the bases he's nowhere near a liability (still an above average defender according to DRS). He has 2yrs left and as long as he's healthy he'll be the primary LF - people need to deal with this reality, which includes him still being productive.

You're correct on Santana being the 4th OF and clearly he has the best bat of any bench player. People are hung up on Taylor having more versatility than Santana, which he does, therefore someone like Taylor is a better fit but that's the wrong logic being applied given our current makeup. If Santana is filling in for Yelich then he's in RF. If Santana is filling in for Cain then he's in RF with Yelich moving to CF. If Santana is filling in for Braun then he's in RF with Yelich in LF (his original position). If there's an injury to an OF then the defense is now as I just described depending on who's injured then Perez bumps up to the 4th OF spot. Broxton is also still on this team and both of these guys are significantly better backups than Taylor. I think Taylor was added to the 40 as depth/insurance in case either, or both, of Santana/Broxton are traded. But a 4th OF would then be acquired, most likely a vet like a Granderson type.


I generally agree with just about all of this, but no way are both Broxton and Santana on the opening day roster. And both are out of options. We'll certainly look to trade one of these guys along with probably Thames(outside chance of Aguilar as well), but I think 2 of those 3 are gone by opening day. We simply can't carry more than 1 of the 3 considering we'll have a 13 man pitching staff most likely. I guess it's possible we can't find a taker and value the depth in ST in the event of injury more than whatever offers we get...and then DFA if we don't have an injury. Taylor is a good add to the 40 for the inevitable parting of some of the pieces listed above, but there's a fair chance Taylor wouldn't even be the first call if we have an OF injury in May. They might go with Ray, or an infielder and have Perez take the 4th OF role.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#31

Posted: December 10, 2018, 12:06 PM Post
Posts: 7852
Taylor's biggest hurdle is being RH. Braun, Santana, Broxton already all RH. Plus, Dubon and/or Hiura likely to be called up at some point, two more RH. Along with likely both catchers, Aguilar, Cain, Arcia, Perez. Really believe via trades and FA they are going to try hard to find a LF for the 4th OF spot.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#32

Posted: December 10, 2018, 12:53 PM Post
Posts: 529
Location: Milwaukee
HiAndTight said:
ctmyers said:
Humans Need Water said:
A leg kick is solely a timing mechanism. Has nothing *directly* to do with generating power.


That's your opinion, but plenty of players attribute their leg kick and stride as a direct correlation to their power generation. To say that it's solely a timing mechanism is inaccurate.



I would absolutely agree. Obviously timing is an important aspect of the leg kick, getting his foot down in time...etc...etc...but it can also help a ton with rotation and getting your hips more into it. At least that was what I found playing....at a MUCH lower level than anyone we talk about on here for a caveat, but still.

Just watch guys who are protecting with 2 strikes vs guys(Baez for example) who don't change their swing at all. They often abandon the leg kick in order stay alive or put the ball in play.

When are people going to stop fabricating information to back their opinion, especially when facts are on display.

If that's the case then both of you can explain to us how Jim Edmonds hit 30-40HR barely moving his front front.

Your answer will prove it's done the same way everyone else does it - independent of one's leg kick. Meaning a leg kick is *solely* a timing mechanism. Full, and Hard, Stop.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#33

Posted: December 10, 2018, 7:30 PM Post
Posts: 4063
Leg kicks aside... is Taylor a "sell high" candidate for the Crew?


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#34

Posted: December 10, 2018, 9:32 PM Post
Posts: 1996
I think you give Taylor a long look in spring. If he is healthy, he may have a chance. I know our system was weak but many considered him above Arcia for first 2+ years until Arcia just went nuts in Biloxi and Taylor was just okay that first go. Injuries killed developed from there


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#35

Posted: December 11, 2018, 7:17 AM Post
Posts: 756
clancyphile said:
Leg kicks aside... is Taylor a "sell high" candidate for the Crew?


Short Answer, no. If this is his peak, he will not get you much back in a trade anyway. Burnes, Woodruff, Ray, Peralta, Brown are all sell high right now. They all have potential written all over them. I just wouldn't sell high on them since they are all pitchers (except Ray). Ray could be special, but I am not so sure.


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#36

Posted: December 11, 2018, 9:02 AM Post
Posts: 529
Location: Milwaukee
I think Taylor makes an interesting 3rd piece to a package giving a team depth in AAA who can fill in at the MLB level when needed. *Maybe* he grows into a passable 4th OF


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#37

Posted: January 06, 2019, 2:16 PM Post
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Posts: 10298
Location: Wisconsin
Interesting note on Taylor from Eric Longenhagen from Fangraphs in his pieces about the Broxton trade:

"From Milwaukee’s perspective, Lorenzo Cain’s defense made Broxton’s best skill redundant in a crowded outfield picture that now projects to see more action from Eric Thames, Ben Gamel, and Tyrone Taylor, who is a sleeper breakout candidate due to a recent swing change that might have altered his power output."

Maybe the Crew feel the same and made it even easier to trade Broxton when they have Gamel now and Taylor. Maybe Tyrone has a real legit shot to make the 25 man out of ST.

Formerly BrewCrewIn2004

@IgnitorKid


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#38

Posted: January 06, 2019, 6:10 PM Post
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That is exciting! I've been a Tyrone fan since his days in Appleton!


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Offline  Re: Tyrone Taylor
#39

Posted: January 07, 2019, 6:58 AM Post
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Clay Davenport’s 2019 projection for Tyrone Taylor (LINK) at the MLB level includes 17 HRs in 463 at bats (obviously it’s doubtful he would get that many ABs). It has his defense as a bit below average in center, but above average on the corners. Completely random note, one of his top comparable players listed is current Brewers VP & Special Asst. to the GM, Ray Montgomery.


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