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Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019

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Online  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 12, 2019, 10:02 PM Post
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82brewcrew82 said:
Jaylyn said:
Who was advocating handing a starting position to any Rule 5 pick? In the case of Ramos, who I would have chosen, you bring him to spring training and see if he can produce. If he can great, if not send him back and your out a few thousand. It's a gamble. Just like the Lindblom signing, DS is gambling that he can produce like he did in Korea. The difference is Lindblom is a $9 million bet, a Rule 5 pick is a 100 thousand wager. To be honest, I would have selected both Ramos and Santana, signed a vet like Frazier and go to spring training with a soft plan to have Frazier start with Santana as back up at 3rd. Ramos and Braun to platoon at 1st. If they don't pan out, there is still plenty of options. As far as the Hader comment, I would support a trade of Hader, selling high, but I don't want to give him away either. Other GM's will look at the holes on this team and think we NEED to trade him and it undercuts our position. With Frazier, Ramos and Santana, at least the team would have looked to be in a stronger position to demand more. It's all optics!

So small sample spring training performance is your gauge? Obviously they didn't take anyone because they didn't think there was anyone worth taking. If they thought Ramos could produce, they would have taken him. How do you know DS doesn't have a plate full of wheat he believes are better options? You don't just chew up 40 man spots on rule 5 picks to show "strength" to other GMs (who would never buy it anyway).

If they show up in the spring and looked overmatched, yeah! The 40 man stands at 34 right now, adding a couple would do no harm considering there is 5 more on it right now that could be sent packing if needed.On the "strenght" comment, one thing I have learned over the years is to never overestimate human intelligence, expect the worst out of humans and they will never fail to live down to your expectations! It's all irrelevant now anyway!


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Online  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 12, 2019, 10:44 PM Post
Posts: 2812
clancyphile said:
The Brewers did have Chad Spanberger, acquired for Chase Anderson.

Ramos would arguably be superfluous in that case. I suspect, though, Cooper Hummel might be an interesting NRI. Has played catcher and OF... maybe could handle first, and has quietly put up impressive seasons.


Spanberger 1b in AA
Fry 1b in A+

That works for me. I think we can add 1 more if they should start off in AAA. Gatewood can be someones backup somewhere.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 7:56 AM Post
Posts: 12910
Jaylyn said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
Jaylyn said:
Side note: Did DS just show his hand on a possible Hader trade by not filling 1B/3B through the Rule 5 draft?


I think it is possible to acquire a starting caliber 1B and/or 3B via trade without dealing Hader. Especially 1B. I have no doubt that they have multiple directions and options to fill those spots. It could be that they have free agent offers out there, and are waiting for decisions to come down before moving on to Plan B or C.

Also, I very much doubt there were any 3B or 1B prospects available in the Rule 5 that the team felt comfortable handing a starting spot to on what they continue to say will be a contending team.

Who was advocating handing a starting position to any Rule 5 pick? In the case of Ramos, who I would have chosen, you bring him to spring training and see if he can produce. If he can great, if not send him back and your out a few thousand. It's a gamble. Just like the Lindblom signing, DS is gambling that he can produce like he did in Korea. The difference is Lindblom is a $9 million bet, a Rule 5 pick is a 100 thousand wager. To be honest, I would have selected both Ramos and Santana, signed a vet like Frazier and go to spring training with a soft plan to have Frazier start with Santana as back up at 3rd. Ramos and Braun to platoon at 1st. If they don't pan out, there is still plenty of options. As far as the Hader comment, I would support a trade of Hader, selling high, but I don't want to give him away either. Other GM's will look at the holes on this team and think we NEED to trade him and it undercuts our position. With Frazier, Ramos and Santana, at least the team would have looked to be in a stronger position to demand more. It's all optics!


You were certainly inferring it was a possibility of some sort. Almost like it was a major possibility and the most likely way to fill the position.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 11:12 AM Post
Posts: 3905
Jaylyn said:
If they show up in the spring and looked overmatched, yeah! The 40 man stands at 34 right now, adding a couple would do no harm considering there is 5 more on it right now that could be sent packing if needed.On the "strenght" comment, one thing I have learned over the years is to never overestimate human intelligence, expect the worst out of humans and they will never fail to live down to your expectations! It's all irrelevant now anyway!

Contending teams do not take flyers on rule 5 players to see if they "look over matched" or not in spring training. This isn't fantasy baseball for cripes sake, and that is a fantasy baseball mentality. Do you honestly believe that there is no plan for those remaining roster spots and/or spots that could be cleared by releasing 40 man chaff? Underestimating people is a horrible life philosophy destined for failure. That attitude may work on the fringes, but you will lose every time in big boy world going in with that mindset. Besides, if you are correct, wouldn't that then mean that a better free agent option would not sign here because we have "strength" at that position. I mean, it just doesn't make sense on any level. Either way, the Brewers brass didn't like the guy and I'm guessing they had good reason for it. I think I'll side with their scouting and continue to believe that the guy is just one more AAAA guy that fans like to clamour for and never really amounts to much, if anything.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 1:57 PM Post
Posts: 12910
If he was exposed to the Rule 5 draft and mashed at AAA clearly the Rockies value him at a price similar to a bag of balls. If we want him so bad just go trade a bag of balls right now and you won't be subject to him needing to be on the 26 man roster all year. Even better than drafting him in the Rule 5 draft.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 5:27 PM Post
Posts: 4982
MrTPlush said:
If he was exposed to the Rule 5 draft and mashed at AAA clearly the Rockies value him at a price similar to a bag of balls. If we want him so bad just go trade a bag of balls right now and you won't be subject to him needing to be on the 26 man roster all year. Even better than drafting him in the Rule 5 draft.


Yeah, really would cost a Max McDowell or Freitas to get him.


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Online  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 9:34 PM Post
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82brewcrew82 said:
Jaylyn said:
If they show up in the spring and looked overmatched, yeah! The 40 man stands at 34 right now, adding a couple would do no harm considering there is 5 more on it right now that could be sent packing if needed.On the "strenght" comment, one thing I have learned over the years is to never overestimate human intelligence, expect the worst out of humans and they will never fail to live down to your expectations! It's all irrelevant now anyway!

Contending teams do not take flyers on rule 5 players to see if they "look over matched" or not in spring training. This isn't fantasy baseball for cripes sake, and that is a fantasy baseball mentality. Do you honestly believe that there is no plan for those remaining roster spots and/or spots that could be cleared by releasing 40 man chaff? Underestimating people is a horrible life philosophy destined for failure. That attitude may work on the fringes, but you will lose every time in big boy world going in with that mindset. Besides, if you are correct, wouldn't that then mean that a better free agent option would not sign here because we have "strength" at that position. I mean, it just doesn't make sense on any level. Either way, the Brewers brass didn't like the guy and I'm guessing they had good reason for it. I think I'll side with their scouting and continue to believe that the guy is just one more AAAA guy that fans like to clamour for and never really amounts to much, if anything.

Sorry, not a gamer. Never have played fantasy baseball, so that reference is lost on me. All I was promoting was filling holes on the cheap, I could see that DS was not going to spend megamillions on FA and offered a alternative. Ramos was worth, still is, a shot and maybe/ maybe not, you hit the jackpot. As far as the "life philosophy" comment, it has worked quite well for over 40 years. No drama and the best part, most people leave you alone and don't try to drag you down to their own little slice of Hades on earth.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 10:19 PM Post
Posts: 3905
Jaylyn said:
Sorry, not a gamer. Never have played fantasy baseball, so that reference is lost on me. All I was promoting was filling holes on the cheap, I could see that DS was not going to spend megamillions on FA and offered a alternative. Ramos was worth, still is, a shot and maybe/ maybe not, you hit the jackpot. As far as the "life philosophy" comment, it has worked quite well for over 40 years. No drama and the best part, most people leave you alone and don't try to drag you down to their own little slice of Hades on earth.

Except, no, he isn't. Not to his current team that left him exposed, not the Brewers staff and not to any other major league team that didn't take him for virtually free. There is something between spending huge and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. That is nothing less than a false dichotomy. Like I said, it probably works fine on the fringes.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Online  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 13, 2019, 11:04 PM Post
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82brewcrew82 said:
Jaylyn said:
Sorry, not a gamer. Never have played fantasy baseball, so that reference is lost on me. All I was promoting was filling holes on the cheap, I could see that DS was not going to spend megamillions on FA and offered a alternative. Ramos was worth, still is, a shot and maybe/ maybe not, you hit the jackpot. As far as the "life philosophy" comment, it has worked quite well for over 40 years. No drama and the best part, most people leave you alone and don't try to drag you down to their own little slice of Hades on earth.

Except, no, he isn't. Not to his current team that left him exposed, not the Brewers staff and not to any other major league team that didn't take him for virtually free. There is something between spending huge and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. That is nothing less than a false dichotomy. Like I said, it probably works fine on the fringes.

Then I suppose, it's just my opinion versus your opinion and the rest of baseball world. I'm comfortable with that. And yeah, I can see fringe analogy as appropriate. It's not so much that I choose the fringe, but just detest the thought of being a cog in some corporate or societal wheel where the components are easily thrown in the closest dumpster when their usefulness is no longer needed and forgotten like last weeks lunch.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 14, 2019, 1:43 PM Post
Posts: 3905
Isn't my opinion, I haven't stated my opinion. In fact, I don't think any part of this is an opinion other than yours. It's not an opinion that his team left him unprotected. It's not an opinion that the Brewers didn't select him. It's not an opinion that no one took him. That is more than enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that folks with mountains of data and talent evaluators is correct over those looking at the back of a baseball card. Sure, sometimes the guessers end up guessing correctly, but the folks that do this for a living are far more correct and it isn't particularly close. Hey, I get it, we can't all swim in the deep end and live to tell about it. You don't give yourself enough credit though, you are definitely a big, beautiful cog in the wheel and I, for one, appreciate you playing here in the same sandbox as the rest of us poor sucker cogs. LOL!

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 14, 2019, 4:11 PM Post
Posts: 3054
It is still an opinion. There are plenty of guys that have been rule 5 eligible that have had fine careers. They eventually received their shot and proved others wrong. It is one of the great things about sports, the players shutting up others, whether it is general managers, scouts, talking heads or fans.


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Online  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 14, 2019, 5:06 PM Post
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Outlander said:
It is still an opinion. There are plenty of guys that have been rule 5 eligible that have had fine careers. They eventually received their shot and proved others wrong. It is one of the great things about sports, the players shutting up others, whether it is general managers, scouts, talking heads or fans.

Thank you! And on that high note, let us move on!


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 15, 2019, 4:45 PM Post
Posts: 3905
Outlander said:
It is still an opinion. There are plenty of guys that have been rule 5 eligible that have had fine careers. They eventually received their shot and proved others wrong. It is one of the great things about sports, the players shutting up others, whether it is general managers, scouts, talking heads or fans.

Of the mountain of players left exposed to the rule five draft your opinion is that "plenty" of them have had fine careers? I'd be willing to bet that a fairly decisive number have had no career at all at the major league level. I'd venture that a far greater number of players actually selected have been returned to their original team than have gone on to have meaningful success at the major league level. Sure, some have had success, as I noted in my post. But nowhere near the number you seem to be implying.

Nothing I stated was an opinion. His team left him protected, the Brewers didn't take him, and no other team took him. All facts. Could this particular rule 5 eligible player that no one wants turn out to be something, sure, but not very likely as supported by the facts sighted above. The sky "could" be orange tomorrow but I don't think it's factually incorrect to say the sky is going to be blue tomorrow.

but it's not like every guy suddenly forgot every piece of advice he gave


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: December 16, 2019, 10:03 AM Post
Posts: 3054
Yes, it is opinion. Jaylyn mentioned a couple were worth a shot. You can bring up mounds of evidence to support your opinion that they are not but it is still an opinion. Yes, a fairly decisive amount of the rule 5 eligible players will not make the major league level but I am willing to bet that some do have fine careers. FYI, Max Muncy and Jeff Mcneil are all-stars.

Edit: Current Brewers catcher Omar Narvaez just acquired by the Brewers was passed over inthe rule 5 draft in the past. It would take major research to list every player ever eligible but it is not too hard to find even recent success with Brewers players or league wide.


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Offline  Re: Eligible for the Rule 5 Draft - Fall 2019
Posted: January 08, 2020, 7:35 PM Post
Posts: 1065
Nobody can trust Phil Bickford for a variety of reasons, but he’s quietly putting it back together. I’m glad we kept him. I think he could take a couple of leaps this year.


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