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2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]

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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#61

Posted: May 11, 2017, 2:50 PM Post
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Being a closer means you have to pitch the 9th inning - sometimes with a lead, but often times teams use those guys in tie games in the 9th when they are at home. You're expecting your "best" reliever to be able to get you to the 9th. And he's been flat out terrible in those spots.

It would be one thing if he was getting bad luck, but he's walking a ton of guys. He's giving up a huge amount of homeruns and despite throwing really hard, isn't really striking many guys out. Those are all massive red flags when you're in the closer spot.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#62

Posted: May 11, 2017, 2:52 PM Post
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brwrsfan said:
Being a closer means you have to pitch the 9th inning - sometimes with a lead, but often times teams use those guys in tie games in the 9th when they are at home. You're expecting your "best" reliever to be able to get you to the 9th. And he's been flat out terrible in those spots.

It would be one thing if he was getting bad luck, but he's walking a ton of guys. He's giving up a huge amount of homeruns and despite throwing really hard, isn't really striking many guys out. Those are all massive red flags when you're in the closer spot.


In the four games where Feliz has taken the loss he is:
0-4 with 1 blow save, 9 earned runs allowed in 3.1 innings pitched, walking 2, striking out 3 and allowing 4 homers.

In the other 13 games he has pitched:
0-0 with 8 saves, 2 earned runs in 12.1 innings pitched, walking 7, striking out 13 while allowing 0 homers.


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Online  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#63

Posted: May 11, 2017, 2:55 PM Post
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He's been bad in both save situations and not and luck is the main factor he's 8 for 9. His FIP is over 6 and that was coming into today, who knows how high it'll be now.

ZIPS has him projected at a 4.85 ERA this year and a negative WAR. He's just bad and with a reliever it's plenty big enough of a sample, probably a quarter of his season innings in.

He's not getting cut or anything but there's no need to keep him in the closer role anymore when there is no chance anyway of him salvaging any trade value in the next 2 months. He walks too many and gives up too many bombs which already makes him a terrible fit as closer.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#64

Posted: May 11, 2017, 2:58 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
He's been bad in both save situations and not and luck is the main factor he's 8 for 9.



In the four games where Feliz has taken the loss he is:
0-4 with 1 blow save, 9 earned runs allowed in 3.1 innings pitched, walking 2, striking out 3 and allowing 4 homers.

In the other 13 games he has pitched:
0-0 with 8 saves, 2 earned runs in 12.1 innings pitched, walking 7, striking out 13 while allowing 0 homers.


Stats say otherwise.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#65

Posted: May 11, 2017, 3:05 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
He's been bad in both save situations and not and luck is the main factor he's 8 for 9.



In the four games where Feliz has taken the loss he is:
0-4 with 1 blow save, 9 earned runs allowed in 3.1 innings pitched, walking 2, striking out 3 and allowing 4 homers.

In the other 13 games he has pitched:
0-0 with 8 saves, 2 earned runs in 12.1 innings pitched, walking 7, striking out 13 while allowing 0 homers.


Stats say otherwise.


Yeah, but those innings count. That's FOUR games where our top relief pitcher has taken a loss. You can't just look at when we're winning. He needs to get guys out. Tie games like today might as well be a save situation, where if he gives up the lead, it's likely a loss. You're saying we should overlook all these other games just because they weren't actual save situations?

9 walks in 15.2 innings is pretty bad. 4 homeruns in the same 15 innings is TERRIBLE. For any relief pitcher.


Last edited by brwrsfan on May 11, 2017, 3:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#66

Posted: May 11, 2017, 3:10 PM Post
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brwrsfan said:
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
He's been bad in both save situations and not and luck is the main factor he's 8 for 9.



In the four games where Feliz has taken the loss he is:
0-4 with 1 blow save, 9 earned runs allowed in 3.1 innings pitched, walking 2, striking out 3 and allowing 4 homers.

In the other 13 games he has pitched:
0-0 with 8 saves, 2 earned runs in 12.1 innings pitched, walking 7, striking out 13 while allowing 0 homers.


Stats say otherwise.


Yeah, but those innings count. That's FOUR games where our top relief pitcher has taken a loss. You can't just look at when we're winning. He needs to get guys out. Tie games like today might as well be a save situation, where if he gives up the lead, it's likely a loss. You're saying we should overlook all these other games just because they weren't actual save situations?

9 walkes in 15.2 innings is pretty bad. 4 homeruns in the same 15 innings is TERRIBLE. For any relief pitcher.


Nope. Not overlooking anything but also not overreacting to it either. He's been awesome (none of you want to admit that) for a good chunk of the season but also horrendous in four outings. No way am I saying he's the closer of the future but to overreact and take him out of that role right not does nothing but please the arm chair managers. His value to trade him later is getting that last out. He's done that 8 of 9 times. Continue to allow our pitching coaches to work with him and get him in a more consistent place.


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Online  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#67

Posted: May 11, 2017, 3:52 PM Post
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That is like the old 'Take his 5 worst starts out and his ERA would be awesome' argument. Any pitcher looks awesome if you take only his best samples of work and look at them .

Feliz now has an ERA over 6. He would have to be damn near perfect for 2 months to have any sort of July trade value, not happening. GMs see what is going on with Feliz, none are going to be fooled by his 8 of 9 save number, they are much smarter than that these days and more aware of advance stats.

They'll say 'Yeah alright, but what about Knebel or Barnes?"


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#68

Posted: May 11, 2017, 4:02 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
That is like the old 'Take his 5 worst starts out and his ERA would be awesome' argument. Any pitcher looks awesome if you take only his best samples of work and look at them .

Feliz now has an ERA over 6. He would have to be damn near perfect for 2 months to have any sort of July trade value, not happening. GMs see what is going on with Feliz, none are going to be fooled by his 8 of 9 save number, they are much smarter than that these days and more aware of advance stats.

They'll say 'Yeah alright, but what about Knebel or Barnes?"


Yeah and you can take out the good and make someone worse than they appear. Using ERA for a relievers worth right now is kinda silly. He'll have plenty of time to lower it. And add to that save total.


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Online  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#69

Posted: May 11, 2017, 4:35 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
That is like the old 'Take his 5 worst starts out and his ERA would be awesome' argument. Any pitcher looks awesome if you take only his best samples of work and look at them .

Feliz now has an ERA over 6. He would have to be damn near perfect for 2 months to have any sort of July trade value, not happening. GMs see what is going on with Feliz, none are going to be fooled by his 8 of 9 save number, they are much smarter than that these days and more aware of advance stats.

They'll say 'Yeah alright, but what about Knebel or Barnes?"


Yeah and you can take out the good and make someone worse than they appear. Using ERA for a relievers worth right now is kinda silly. He'll have plenty of time to lower it. And add to that save total.


I'm not taking out the good or the bad. I'm giving you his actual numbers and saying he's been a very bad pitcher this year. The peripherals are also very, very bad, it's not just the ERA. He actually has only a .179 BABIP against him this year which is kind of amazing, they suggest he even has much better numbers than he should.

We have better options. Feliz can pitch in 10-1 games where his frequent walks and HRs won't hurt us. Unless you're interested in Aaron Hill quality returns, no one is giving us anything of value for Feliz at the deadline.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#70

Posted: May 11, 2017, 4:36 PM Post
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Walking 7 in a little over 12 innings in his "good" appearances is kind of terrible.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#71

Posted: May 11, 2017, 5:07 PM Post
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Paint it any way you want, but Feliz is trash. Sick of seeing him in a Brewers uniform already.

Time to accept that fact he is garbage, realize he won't be worth anything at the trade deadline, and remove him from the closer's role.

I swear some people argue just to argue. No stats can tell me what I already know, he blows!


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT
#72

Posted: May 11, 2017, 5:26 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
You are awful, Feliz. Just awful. Wish you were off this team.


Where did we get this guy anyway? You can't have your closer walking people no matter what the score is. [tongue]


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#73

Posted: May 11, 2017, 9:15 PM Post
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With Familia being diagnosed with a blood clot in his shoulder maybe the Mets will take him off of our hands just like Milone.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-11: Red Sox (E. Rodriguez) at Brewers (Nelson) 12:10 PM CDT [Brewers get Felized, lose 4-1]
#74

Posted: May 12, 2017, 9:03 AM Post
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LouisEly said:
With Familia being diagnosed with a blood clot in his shoulder maybe the Mets will take him off of our hands just like Milone.


Addison Reed is a pretty capable replacement.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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