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2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT [Brewers win, 3-1, edge past STL into first place]

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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#21

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:13 PM Post
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jerichoholicninja said:
Brew4U said:
jerichoholicninja said:
Batting Broxton 7th in the current lineup is inexcusable. Batting Sogard and his career sub .300 OBP leadoff is beyond inexcusable.


Overreacting much? Lineups can be fluid, especially when regulars are out. Sogard is extremely hot and has already paid dividends for CC and helped win ball games. Sometimes you ride that out. Baseball managing isn't always done by checking out the back of these guys baseball cards.


Is Broxton not a hot hand? 1.000 OPS this month seems hot to me. His career OPS leading off is .919 and .899 when he hits 2nd so I think he's "comfortable" hitting in those spots.



Not to Counsell or he would be in those spots already. If he continues to hit, he'll eventually be there.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#22

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:16 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Well last year we were arguing about why Broxton was losing so many PAs to Nieuwenhuis, this year at least he's playing every day and we're just arguing about where it should be in the lineup, so that's a step in the right direction. [smile]


Interesting how much a year changes things. I give Counsell a lot of credit for bringing guys along so far. Broxton and Santana sure have looked even better this season so far. He's played his cards right for the most part. Another good example has been the catching situation. He's done well in my book.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#23

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:26 PM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Well last year we were arguing about why Broxton was losing so many PAs to Nieuwenhuis, this year at least he's playing every day and we're just arguing about where it should be in the lineup, so that's a step in the right direction. [smile]


Interesting how much a year changes things. I give Counsell a lot of credit for bringing guys along so far. Broxton and Santana sure have looked even better this season so far. He's played his cards right for the most part. Another good example has been the catching situation. He's done well in my book.


To be fair then are you going to blame him for Villar's OBP being 90 points lower than last year?


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#24

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:31 PM Post
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Damn, Pordora is fast as heck!


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#25

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:32 PM Post
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topper09er said:
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Well last year we were arguing about why Broxton was losing so many PAs to Nieuwenhuis, this year at least he's playing every day and we're just arguing about where it should be in the lineup, so that's a step in the right direction. [smile]


Interesting how much a year changes things. I give Counsell a lot of credit for bringing guys along so far. Broxton and Santana sure have looked even better this season so far. He's played his cards right for the most part. Another good example has been the catching situation. He's done well in my book.


To be fair then are you going to blame him for Villar's OBP being 90 points lower than last year?


No manager is perfect. But you're trying to argue for arguing sake. If you can't see that CC has had more successes with the current players he's had then I don't know what to tell ya. Villar might be one of those guys he took a wrong approach with by letting him be so free in his play so being undisciplined has become apart of his game. Who knows but it's early.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#26

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:32 PM Post
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hmm, super fast runner on third, pitcher up, and Garza throws the first two in the dirt. How about some heaters


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#27

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:33 PM Post
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MoreTrife said:
Damn, Pordora is fast as heck!


I'll second that. I thought we had a shot at him when Arcia got the relay throw....not even close.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#28

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:36 PM Post
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It'd be great to get two more innings from Garza in this one.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#29

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:42 PM Post
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Brew4U said:

But you're trying to argue for arguing sake.


I am not doing this. Dismissing something you don't like as "argumentative" is not a good argument. I could say the same thing to you about giving Councell credit for a player's success instead of their natural ability or extra experience. My point was that I don't think the manager has a lot to do with players getting better. I see their role more as evaluating the talent they have and then using it in such a way to maximize wins.

When you can't make a mistake at catcher because whoever you pencil in puts up a 1.000 OPS I don't think the manager is doing anything particularly impressive or anything every single other MLB manager wouldn't do.

Overall, I think CC is basically average as he seems to make all the standard moves every other average manager makes. He does seem to over value gritty players who remind him of himself which I think makes him a little weaker in the evaluating talent aspect of managing.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#30

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:43 PM Post
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All I know is last year at this time we were watching Colin Walsh and Ramon Flores. Later on it was the likes of Andy Wilkins Jake Elmore, and Alex Presley. So I can't get too worked up that Sogard is leading off for one game.


Last edited by FVBrewerFan on May 17, 2017, 9:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#31

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:46 PM Post
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topper09er said:
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Well last year we were arguing about why Broxton was losing so many PAs to Nieuwenhuis, this year at least he's playing every day and we're just arguing about where it should be in the lineup, so that's a step in the right direction. [smile]


Interesting how much a year changes things. I give Counsell a lot of credit for bringing guys along so far. Broxton and Santana sure have looked even better this season so far. He's played his cards right for the most part. Another good example has been the catching situation. He's done well in my book.


To be fair then are you going to blame him for Villar's OBP being 90 points lower than last year?


Why would you blame the manager for what is mostly just a shift in Babip?


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#32

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:50 PM Post
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topper09er said:
Brew4U said:

But you're trying to argue for arguing sake.


I am not doing this. Dismissing something you don't like as "argumentative" is not a good argument. I could say the same thing to you about giving Councell credit for a player's success instead of their natural ability or extra experience. My point was that I don't think the manager has a lot to do with players getting better. I see their role more as evaluating the talent they have and then using it in such a way to maximize wins.

When you can't make a mistake at catcher because whoever you pencil in puts up a 1.000 OPS I don't think the manager is doing anything particularly impressive or anything every single other MLB manager wouldn't do.

Overall, I think CC is basically average as he seems to make all the standard moves every other average manager makes. He does seem to over value gritty players who remind him of himself which I think makes him a little weaker in the evaluating talent aspect of managing.


Managers make decisions on matchups. Flip the catchers starts completely around and maybe you have different results. While some of the success is just natural player progression, it also goes along with how the player is used. To dismiss that part of managing is a big mistake IMO. Otherwise any idiot with a computer could manage a MLB team and I just do not believe that.

I also think because the player that CC was he gets this bad wrap anytime we have a player over the age of 27 in the lineup it just has to be because CC was a scrapper. Saying he over values them is just throwing something out there because we really don't know how much he values them or if he just is playing the guys he believes can win some games.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#33

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:51 PM Post
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Broxton come on man. Damnit.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#34

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:52 PM Post
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No error for Broxton for dropping a relatively easy flyball? K.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#35

Posted: May 17, 2017, 9:56 PM Post
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Offense has run dry. One dribbler after the next. Going to waste another good start by Garza.

Oh and Torres is warming up so I'm sure Garza will get a guy on, CC to Torres and he will immediately give up a double.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#36

Posted: May 17, 2017, 10:00 PM Post
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Ennder said:
topper09er said:
Brew4U said:

Interesting how much a year changes things. I give Counsell a lot of credit for bringing guys along so far. Broxton and Santana sure have looked even better this season so far. He's played his cards right for the most part. Another good example has been the catching situation. He's done well in my book.


To be fair then are you going to blame him for Villar's OBP being 90 points lower than last year?


Why would you blame the manager for what is mostly just a shift in Babip?


I am illustrating the point that in the same way you can't blame CC for Villar's decline you cant give him credit for Santana's improvements


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#37

Posted: May 17, 2017, 10:03 PM Post
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Not a great night for Broxton, misplay on D and came back to strike out on 3 pitches. Not that anybody is hitting tonight but he might get one more shot to redeem himself.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#38

Posted: May 17, 2017, 10:05 PM Post
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Brew4U said:

I also think because the player that CC was he gets this bad wrap anytime we have a player over the age of 27 in the lineup it just has to be because CC was a scrapper. Saying he over values them is just throwing something out there because we really don't know how much he values them or if he just is playing the guys he believes can win some games.


I am not just throwing it out there, this whole thing started because I put it out there that CC seems to be favoring Sogard's 3 hot games over Broxton's 3 hot weeks. This appears to be evidence that there are other things about Sogard he likes and thus does not need as long of a hot streak before he considers him leadoff worthy. He also has hit Franklin higher than our hot catchers and Broxton recently. He batted Franklin leadoff in his second start this year.


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#39

Posted: May 17, 2017, 10:10 PM Post
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Enough about the batting order, Broxton really needs to catch the ball. Mike Cameron 2008 NLDS flashback on that one


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Offline  Re: 2017-05-17: Brewers (Garza) at Padres (Chacin) 9:10 PM CDT
#40

Posted: May 17, 2017, 10:10 PM Post
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topper09er said:
Brew4U said:

I also think because the player that CC was he gets this bad wrap anytime we have a player over the age of 27 in the lineup it just has to be because CC was a scrapper. Saying he over values them is just throwing something out there because we really don't know how much he values them or if he just is playing the guys he believes can win some games.


I am not just throwing it out there, this whole thing started because I put it out there that CC seems to be favoring Sogard's 3 hot games over Broxton's 3 hot weeks. This appears to be evidence that there are other things about Sogard he likes and thus does not need as long of a hot streak before he considers him leadoff worthy. He also has hit Franklin higher than our hot catchers and Broxton recently. He batted Franklin leadoff in his second start this year.


He likes the L-R-L approach in his lineups too. He's mentioned that a bit so that could've also played into Franklin splitting Satana and the catchers. The comment is overused to me. That's all.


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