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2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 6-4]

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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:42 PM Post
Posts: 2283
That and our best reIievers are all gassed because this team couldn't hang a crooked number of their own when given multiple chances.

Crud.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:44 PM Post
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The offense needed to come through and win this one tonight and they failed. This hurts.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:44 PM Post
Posts: 380
I kind of figured a loss tonight, but the tough part is having to use all our good relievers. Swarzak and Knebel looked pretty shaky to me, just trying to grind through. Both of them need a day, and it'll have to be tomorrow.

The good news is, at one back of the WC, this team is going to be right in it. Even a split with the Cubs keeps them alive, and I feel good about next week.

This is a resilient bunch, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them jump on Arietta tomorrow.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:47 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
There will be a lot of games we look back on when we miss the playoffs by one game. But this one is going to stand alone.


I feel like someone says this after every loss.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:47 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:
jerichoholicninja said:
Pretty much what we should have expected. We just can't take advantage when other teams lose.


You mean like the last two days?


I mean like all the way back to when we dropped out of first. The Cubs go into a funk and instead of gaining ground we get swept by the freaking Reds. Up until the last 10 days or so the Cubs have given us every opportunity to take an extra game here or there but we fall flat on our face. We don't get beaten by a better team, we choke away chances until we lose. How many were left on base tonight? 8 maybe? Just embarrassing how bad this offense is when they need to be.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:50 PM Post
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MoreTrife said:
Here's the problem: COL has SD...they will have a pretty easy time of it. We are playing Cubs. Not good.


Colorado just got swept by the Giants in a 2 game set, after losing a game to the Padres. Sometimes good teams lose to bad teams. Actually happens quite a lot in baseball.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:54 PM Post
Posts: 10109
Brew4U said:
No need to jump off the deep end. We wanted 2 of 3 and they got it. The only real bummer with this one is that our pitching staff is gassed. Tomorrow is going to be a very hard game even if Davies gives us 7.


No, we wanted every game. Baseball standings are measured in individual wins, not series wins. I realize it's greedy to want a sweep but at this point in the season, with 8 games left, every one is crucial. You cannot afford to give a single one away.

With the Rockies upcoming schedule, it's likely going to be tough to make up ground. Today takes the division off the table for us with anything less than 3 out of 4 vs. the Cubs. Even with that, we'll need to make up 2 games over 4, so it'll likely take a sweep.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:54 PM Post
Posts: 505
Location: Oshkosh
jerichoholicninja said:
MrTPlush said:
jerichoholicninja said:
Pretty much what we should have expected. We just can't take advantage when other teams lose.


You mean like the last two days?


I mean like all the way back to when we dropped out of first. The Cubs go into a funk and instead of gaining ground we get swept by the freaking Reds. Up until the last 10 days or so the Cubs have given us every opportunity to take an extra game here or there but we fall flat on our face. We don't get beaten by a better team, we choke away chances until we lose. How many were left on base tonight? 8 maybe? Just embarrassing how bad this offense is when they need to be.


I wish my team won every game.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 8:57 PM Post
Posts: 5787
jerichoholicninja said:
Pretty much what we should have expected. We just can't take advantage when other teams lose.


Is it better to lose when the other teams win?? Then you actually LOSE ground. Only other option is to win every single game.

I get it, this one hurt. But the "taking advantage when other teams lose" thing has never made sense to me.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:00 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Brew4U said:
No need to jump off the deep end. We wanted 2 of 3 and they got it. The only real bummer with this one is that our pitching staff is gassed. Tomorrow is going to be a very hard game even if Davies gives us 7.


No, we wanted every game. Baseball standings are measured in individual wins, not series wins. I realize it's greedy to want a sweep but at this point in the season, with 8 games left, every one is crucial. You cannot afford to give a single one away.

With the Rockies upcoming schedule, it's likely going to be tough to make up ground. Today takes the division off the table for us with anything less than 3 out of 4 vs. the Cubs. Even with that, we'll need to make up 2 games over 4, so it'll likely take a sweep.


Meh, I get being down about the loss as it is a tough one but winning each remaining series should get you in. If it doesn't, well they're playing their butts off. I'll have no problem missing out if they do that.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:02 PM Post
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Here's my questions:

1. Should Hader have pitched the 8th?

2. Should Garza or someone been put in the game in the last inning to keep Knebel as a possibility for tomorrow? I mean no matter how that last inning played out, you'd would've needed a "closer" to finish the game at that point.

“There's a fine line between being confident and cocky, or overconfident. This is an extremely humbling game. But if you don't believe in yourself, no one else is going to believe in you.”


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:05 PM Post
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Heading into the Cubs' series with Drake and Torres as the 8th and 9th inning relievers. Does Taylor Williams get put into a big spot for the first time?


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:07 PM Post
Posts: 5787
NYChez said:
Heading into the Cubs' series with Drake and Torres as the 8th and 9th inning relievers. Does Taylor Williams get put into a big spot for the first time?


Hughes will get late inning work if game is close.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:19 PM Post
Posts: 10109
Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
Brew4U said:
No need to jump off the deep end. We wanted 2 of 3 and they got it. The only real bummer with this one is that our pitching staff is gassed. Tomorrow is going to be a very hard game even if Davies gives us 7.


No, we wanted every game. Baseball standings are measured in individual wins, not series wins. I realize it's greedy to want a sweep but at this point in the season, with 8 games left, every one is crucial. You cannot afford to give a single one away.

With the Rockies upcoming schedule, it's likely going to be tough to make up ground. Today takes the division off the table for us with anything less than 3 out of 4 vs. the Cubs. Even with that, we'll need to make up 2 games over 4, so it'll likely take a sweep.


Meh, I get being down about the loss as it is a tough one but winning each remaining series should get you in. If it doesn't, well they're playing their butts off. I'll have no problem missing out if they do that.


I agree with a lot of this, and I'm not questioning the effort. I'm just pointing out, each individual loss is equally damaging to our hopes, regardless of what has happened so far in the series. I don't expect to win out, but I can't rationalize being okay with a loss just because you've already won the series, especially in late September.

'Be happy with winning the series' is a pet peeve of mine, and this isn't specifically addressed to you, because I know it's a common mindset . 'Just win the series, a sweep is just gravy' is a common thought process. Why?? A regular season series in itself is pretty meaningless. It is nothing more than a few games against the same team but other than that has no real meaning. This isnt tennis or volleyball. The standings are measured in individual games. The third game of a series (individual from how much you need the opposition to lose), is equally as important as the first game of the next series.

Obviously the more series you win, the better shape you'll be in, but the reality is that you're not going to win them all, and so you'll also need as many sweeps as you can get to make up for the times you play poorly. What if we had only won the series the last time we had played the Cubs? Would that have been good enough? Well according to many yes, but we'd be 5.5 back of 1st and therefore pretty much out of the running for the division.

The only time winning a 'series' means anything is in the playoffs. Other than that, it's just 162 individual games. At least that's the way I see it.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 20, 2017, 9:41 PM Post
Posts: 10109
RoCoBrewfan said:
adambr2 said:
There will be a lot of games we look back on when we miss the playoffs by one game. But this one is going to stand alone.


I feel like someone says this after every loss.


Well, there's a grain of truth to it every new time. The more recent it is, the more it's going to stick out at the end of the season.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 21, 2017, 1:42 AM Post
Posts: 61
Brew4U said:
No need to jump off the deep end. We wanted 2 of 3 and they got it. The only real bummer with this one is that our pitching staff is gassed. Tomorrow is going to be a very hard game even if Davies gives us 7.


Not necessarily. Maybe Arrieta gets rocked since it's his first game back from injury.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 21, 2017, 6:49 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
Here's my questions:

1. Should Hader have pitched the 8th?

2. Should Garza or someone been put in the game in the last inning to keep Knebel as a possibility for tomorrow? I mean no matter how that last inning played out, you'd would've needed a "closer" to finish the game at that point.


I think Hader should have pitched the 8th, but there is no way I would put in Garza in a tie game down the stretch. Now Swarzak and Knebel are both not available tonight in a game that they need to win. I think a case could have been made to let Hader finish the game and save the pen for the cubs series.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 21, 2017, 7:32 AM Post
Posts: 496
Location: New Berlin, WI
I think counsel made a big time mistake pitching swarzak in the 8th. Hader would have been a reasonable option, otherwise as much as it sucks you gotta let drake or torres or Guerra pitch and give knebel a clean 9th. That way we would have at least had 1 of knebel swarzak available today. I would guess neither are available and hader might not be either. It absolutely would have been better if we cashed in one of our many chances at a big inning and made the decision easier for counsel


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 21, 2017, 8:11 AM Post
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A lot of people feel like this "should have been a win". The 7th inning was a missed opportunity with Santana and Braun coming up. They should have (I say could have) scored more runs. Santana strikes out a lot. That's the way baseball is played today. Lots of K's. There are a good handful of guys who are going to strike out 150+ times this year. This is the new nature of baseball. I think the K rate is over 20%.

The Pirates had an awesome opportunity the fifth inning to put the Brewers away with men on base and one out, and we say "What an awesome job by Jeffress to wiggle off the hook!!!"

Had the Brewers won, couldn't Pirate fans say "we should have scored more runs that inning! We should have won this game!"

This is baseball. Sometimes you don't score runs.

The Pirates pitcher did his job. He got a strikeout, and then he retired Braun. Kudos to him. It happens. It sucks, but things like that are absolutely going to happen over 162 games. I just feel like saying "should have" is false. The Brewers absolutely could have scored a few more runs in that inning, and it absolutely sucks leaving runners on base, but I think we (and I'm guilty of this at times myself) just a lot of times fail to look at the competition aspect. There's 9 dudes on the other side of the field trying to actively stop you from achieving the thing you're trying to achieve.


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Offline  Re: 2017-09-20: Brewers (Wilkerson) at Pirates (Brault) 6:05 PM CDT
Posted: September 21, 2017, 9:20 AM Post
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RoCoBrewfan said:
This is baseball. Sometimes you don't score runs.


This is the Brewers second half. Get guys on and then K, K, K. I generally hate the pressing excuse as to why guys aren't driving runners in but it's pretty obvious Braun, Shaw, and to a lesser extent Santana are. Both Braun and Shaw go up there swinging at anything close to the plate nowadays, very out of character.


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