LambeauLeap1250 WSSP


  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  [ 498 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply

2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 5-3, 10 innings]

Author Message
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 7:40 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 870
"It's baseball" and there were 10 games left and the Brewers were essentially 4 back, with 4 against the Cubs and 3 against St. Louis. They had to sweep this series to REALLY make it realistic. Winning the division at this point in the season was a pipe dream.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 7:41 AM Post
Posts: 912
OnaBadger58 said:
dacbrewers said:
adambr2 said:
Cravy was already DFAed this year, no one wanted him so he had to stick around.

I'm pretty sure he was trying to get released, still would have collected a check for the season. Surprised Brewers brass didn't have the balls to release him.

Just keep him and send him to the instructional league for the whole year.


I read on Twitter (probably somebody on here) that Cravy had been live-tweeting the Rams/49ers game, and that comment was in reference to that. I'd hope that's the case.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 8:17 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 827
Austin Tatious said:
Good comments across the board. I agree with the sentiments. The hitting approach late is lacking, big time. You have to second guess Coles at this point.

Stearns needs to really improve that pen. Drake, Torres, Hughes, and Barnes should all be replaced. Yes, that's a whopping four spots but we have cash.

It's a combination of both, late inning pitching, and lack of hitting both late and with RISP.

Santana has had a nice year and hit well but there's still meat on the bone for big improvement. All he needed was a sac fly there and he didn't approach it right. You could see it. Heck, a squeeze might have done it but he probably couldn't execute it.

Brinson and Phillips may add nice juice to the lineup.

And Braun needs to wake up from his slumber.


The problem with Brinson and Phillips is they are both in the mold of feast or famine, high K rate. Getting real real sick of it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 8:42 AM Post
Posts: 2283
OldSchoolSnapper said:
"It's baseball" and there were 10 games left and the Brewers were essentially 4 back, with 4 against the Cubs and 3 against St. Louis. They had to sweep this series to REALLY make it realistic. Winning the division at this point in the season was a pipe dream.


Winning 3 of 4 in this series, with the Cubs having to immediately travel to STL for another 4 game series against a team still chasing a playoff spot, is still a very real scenario to win the division - it wasn't sweep or bust.

That said, losing last night's game coupled with the night before in Pittsburgh in the fashion they did really does hamper the division chances, since they now need STL to beat up on the Cubs next week...something they've proven incapable of doing so far this season.

At this point, the ideal scenario for Milwaukee is heading into Monday's off day at least even with colorado for the 2nd WC lead, still 1-2 games up on STL recordwise, and within 1.5 games of the Cubs for the division. Then if they take care business against the Reds while the Cards and Cubs battle each other, they'll still have a shot at both the 2nd WC and NL Central title going into that series in STL.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 8:47 AM Post
Posts: 214
MoreTrife said:
Austin Tatious said:
Good comments across the board. I agree with the sentiments. The hitting approach late is lacking, big time. You have to second guess Coles at this point.

Stearns needs to really improve that pen. Drake, Torres, Hughes, and Barnes should all be replaced. Yes, that's a whopping four spots but we have cash.

It's a combination of both, late inning pitching, and lack of hitting both late and with RISP.

Santana has had a nice year and hit well but there's still meat on the bone for big improvement. All he needed was a sac fly there and he didn't approach it right. You could see it. Heck, a squeeze might have done it but he probably couldn't execute it.

Brinson and Phillips may add nice juice to the lineup.

And Braun needs to wake up from his slumber.


The problem with Brinson and Phillips is they are both in the mold of feast or famine, high K rate. Getting real real sick of it.


Brinson has ~20% strikeout rate over the last two years in the minors. While it's at close to 30% in the majors so far, that's in 55 rather sporadic PAs, so at this point I'd rely more on the minors numbers. After maybe 200 PAs or so in the majors I'll start to lean more on those numbers.

I'll grant you Phillips though. Again caution with the MLB numbers so far, due to the tiny sample size, but his numbers in the minors would suggest, in terms of BB% and K%, something in the mould of Santana. Strikes out a fair bit, but shows patience at the plate and will draw walks. Even if he find a lot of success I'd imagine the K% will remain above average.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 8:51 AM Post
Posts: 501
Location: New Berlin, WI
I don't think a couple tough losses will dampen their spirits. They'll come out firing today. I'm very frustrated by the managerial decisions last night. Counsel played way too fast and loose with his chips yesterday and it cost us. If any of Villar/Berry/Keon are available in the 9th to run, we win on the shaw single. Santana's at bat was just awful. Why is he trying for 4 runs when all we need is 1? Anything in play, anything! Make them make a play. Also frustrating is how many softly hit RBI's the cubs had early in the game. That's just bad luck though.

Today is a new day. I'll be at the game for this one, here's hoping we bounce back with a big win.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:00 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 870
Counsel played his chips fine last night. Jeffress threw a pitch that ends the game 9/10 times, last night the guy hit it.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:01 AM Post
Posts: 381
While I do hear you on the Shaw single and think maybe Counsell waited a bit to pinch run for Walker, I'm just not sure anyone scores on that base hit. It was a rope, and the RF (Happ at that point, right?) fielded it with his momentum coming in. The throw was good, and I just don't see it without a superhuman jump. Maybe Byron Buxton or Billy Hamilton score on that play. Maybe. Even then, it's a risky send, one that would be sure to bring out the windmill Eddie talk.

On Santana, I'm with you. Worst part is, most of those pitches weren't really close to strikes.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:16 AM Post
Posts: 501
Location: New Berlin, WI
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Counsel played his chips fine last night. Jeffress threw a pitch that ends the game 9/10 times, last night the guy hit it.


I couldn't disagree more on how he played his chips. The squib hit was incredibly annoying, but Counsel played his chips like a fool. Berry pinch running in the 7th with sogard up was just plain silly. He was behind someone, he couldn't be used to steal anyways. Was he hoping Sogard would hit one in the gap...not likely? broxton pinch hitting for phillips was also dumb, phillips is the superior player and has fine splits against lefties, save broxton for running. And I'm not sure why Drake was allowed to face Bryant. It would have made more sense to use torres against the first 2 guys and drake against rizzo only(or keep Torres in if he gets the first 2 guys). Drake should never ever ever face a RH hitter, especially Bryant.

I get that Shaw hit a rope, maybe the runner is held. If we had other options on the bench, we could have had Perez PH for Santana in that spot in the 9th. Perez has been clutch and is a contact guy. Heck he could even safety squeeze and probably get the run home. I get there's a force, but with the infield in and Broxton/Berry/Villar on 3rd...I believe that person with a huge lead could get home faster than 3b could field a bunt and make a throw home.

Regardless of the what-ifs, clearly in this case counsel used all his chips way way way too early and it cost us.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:22 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 909
There is no way anyone scores from 2nd on that play, it was hit so hard that any runner would have had to freeze to make sure it's down. Look at it again, Walker was barely at third and the catcher had the ball, I just don't see any way anyone would have scored on that.

The thing that is unfortunate is that the Pirates tied it on a chopper between the pitchers mound and home. The Cubs tied it on a infield single, a groundout and a "routine" ground ball hit to where the SS would normally play on a great pitch. And we can't score on a scorched single by Shaw.

We were two outs away from a one game lead in the WC and 1.5 games behind the Cubs. I think the'll bounce back though and still make a run for at least a WC.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:31 AM Post
User avatar
Posts: 870
He used his chips early because he wanted the game to end sooner. It was kind of a necessity given how taxed the bullpen is. And it worked. These were high percentage situations that the players choked in. I'm genuinely flabbergasted at how someone can pin last night on Counsell. The players should have ended that game about four separate times.

The Shaw hit is moot. Nobody in baseball scores on that play.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:41 AM Post
Posts: 501
Location: New Berlin, WI
OldSchoolSnapper said:
He used his chips early because he wanted the game to end sooner. It was kind of a necessity given how taxed the bullpen is. And it worked. These were high percentage situations that the players choked in. I'm genuinely flabbergasted at how someone can pin last night on Counsell. The players should have ended that game about four separate times.

The Shaw hit is moot. Nobody in baseball scores on that play.


Maybe not. And the players absolutely could and should have won the game. Using his players early cost us a better chance in the 9th and the 10th and didn't benefit us at all. The Berry pinch run had very little chance to provide any benefit. Broxton PH for phillips was slightly more understandable but again, Phillips is the superior player. And the Drake decision was terrible, I have no qualms about his bullpen usage prior to that.

And the guys that he generally uses are taxed, but we have many other arms in that bullpen. Literally every single other bullpen arm is a better option against bryant than Drake, except maybe wang. Williams, Torres, Hughes, heck even Guerra/Garza. The dude is awful awful against RH hitting, and Counsel knows it. Putting Drake in felt like a white flag.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 9:51 AM Post
Posts: 14
The things I didn't agree with were pinch hitting Broxton for Phillips and allowing Drake to pitch to Bryant. Righties KILL Drake but Counsell allowed him to pitch to one of the best in the game.

I would've gone Hughes to start the inning, take your chances with him against Jay, have him face Bryant and then bring Drake in to face Rizzo. Jay most likely isn't going to hurt you like Bryant or Rizzo can.

I also think Counsell is too obsessed with clearing his bench to platoon when relievers come in, although he kept Thames in last night which worked. Seems like every 6th or 7th inning Counsell clears his bench by swapping Thames/Aguilar, Broxton/Phillips, Sogard/Perez/Arcia, Vogt/Pina. Then, Villar pinch hits for the pitcher. Only leaving hopeless bats like Bandy & Susac.

I get it for certain matchups, but I don't think it's necessary to do it for every one of those guys IMO. At least, please no more subbing Broxton for Phillips. He hits lefties just fine!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 10:23 AM Post
Posts: 2283
Last night's game isn't on Counsell - the combination of baseball bounces in the wrong locations (weak Cub hits scoring runs, loud Brewer outs or Shaw's line shot single preventing a run from scoring), and moreso the Brewers' inability to come through in multiple late inning situations with RISP with a big hit or run-producing play cost them. Santana's AB with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 9th was horrible - I think he may have gotten 1 actual strike in that AB and he wound up striking himself out.

I don't even care much about the move to bring Drake in to start the 10th - although leaving him in to face Bryant was silly when Counsell could've played righty lefty matchups with other relievers in the pen and still had Guerra/Garza for long late-inning relief had the game continued past 10 innings. Aside from that move, I thought Counsell did just fine with substitutions throughout the game - knowing that he was shorthanded in the pen due to key reliever overuse, he had to pull out all the stops to try and win the game in 9 innings.

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players and not the coaches to actually come through in crunch time. In big games, the offense seems to generate the least # of runs possible in various situations aside from hitting solo home runs. Shaw got unlucky with the line shot single in the 9th, but aside from that Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been awful in big situations lately - a team that expects to be a playoff contender can't have their 3-4-5 hitters provide nothing when key late season games are on the line. In that last Pirates loss, that combination left THIRTEEN runners on base. Last night it was NINE. Braun has stranded twelve of those runners by himself over these 2 losses. Never thought I'd say this, but I'd almost prefer seeing him get tonight's game off to get another lefty bat in the lineup against Lackey. I know it's not every time in every game, but it's disappointing nonetheless.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 11:50 AM Post
Posts: 2907
Would've liked to see a hitter like Nate Orf up and pinch hitting instead of Susac. You are in a playoff hunt and you have Susac pinch hitting in the clutch. There are better hitters in the organization you can utilize there. There is no need to have 4 catchers up right now.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 12:14 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 630
Location: La Crosse
3and2Fastball said:
Would've liked to see a hitter like Nate Orf up and pinch hitting instead of Susac. You are in a playoff hunt and you have Susac pinch hitting in the clutch. There are better hitters in the organization you can utilize there. There is no need to have 4 catchers up right now.

Agreed 100% with this. When you're in the playoff hunt, you need to call up anyone that could be a help to this team. If you're going do this platoon every night, call up a couple more positional players to cover yourself for days like Wednesday and Thursday. Susac (and Bandy) should not have any AB's this month.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Online  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 12:54 PM Post
Posts: 501
Location: New Berlin, WI
Fear The Chorizo said:
Last night's game isn't on Counsell - the combination of baseball bounces in the wrong locations (weak Cub hits scoring runs, loud Brewer outs or Shaw's line shot single preventing a run from scoring), and moreso the Brewers' inability to come through in multiple late inning situations with RISP with a big hit or run-producing play cost them. Santana's AB with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 9th was horrible - I think he may have gotten 1 actual strike in that AB and he wound up striking himself out.

I don't even care much about the move to bring Drake in to start the 10th - although leaving him in to face Bryant was silly when Counsell could've played righty lefty matchups with other relievers in the pen and still had Guerra/Garza for long late-inning relief had the game continued past 10 innings. Aside from that move, I thought Counsell did just fine with substitutions throughout the game - knowing that he was shorthanded in the pen due to key reliever overuse, he had to pull out all the stops to try and win the game in 9 innings.

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players and not the coaches to actually come through in crunch time. In big games, the offense seems to generate the least # of runs possible in various situations aside from hitting solo home runs. Shaw got unlucky with the line shot single in the 9th, but aside from that Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been awful in big situations lately - a team that expects to be a playoff contender can't have their 3-4-5 hitters provide nothing when key late season games are on the line. In that last Pirates loss, that combination left THIRTEEN runners on base. Last night it was NINE. Braun has stranded twelve of those runners by himself over these 2 losses. Never thought I'd say this, but I'd almost prefer seeing him get tonight's game off to get another lefty bat in the lineup against Lackey. I know it's not every time in every game, but it's disappointing nonetheless.


You can say that about every game, the onus is on the players, bad bounce here, whatever. The manager should be putting the players in the best possible position to succeed, and Counsel did not do that yesterday...not by a long shot. This can in part be traced back to the pittsburgh series as well and that none of our top 3 relievers were available.


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Offline  Re: 2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: September 22, 2017, 5:51 PM Post
User avatar
Posts: 4461
KeithStone53151 said:

You can say that about every game, the onus is on the players, bad bounce here, whatever. The manager should be putting the players in the best possible position to succeed, and Counsel did not do that yesterday...not by a long shot. This can in part be traced back to the pittsburgh series as well and that none of our top 3 relievers were available.


And if they win 8-2 yesterday, and win a nail biter in Pittsburgh, do you give Counsell credit for using his best pitchers to win the day, instead of resting them with an unknown outcome the next game?

This is a 12 game season. You play the cards you're dealt. You cannot play for tomorrow. You cannot play for extra innings when you're LOSING in the 7th inning. You put your team in the best position to succeed.

"I wasted so much time in my life hating Juventus or A.C. Milan that I should have spent hating the Cardinals." ~kalle8

Twitter: @MKEHiker
Website: http://www.mkehiker.com


 Top
 
Quote   Reply 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Go to page Previous  1 ... 21, 22, 23, 24, 25  [ 498 posts ]  New Topic   Add Reply
  


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search this forum (phpBB search):
Jump to:  
Search entire board (Google search):
Google
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Test