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2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 9-0]

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Offline  2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 9-0]
#1

Posted: May 06, 2018, 6:24 AM Post
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Pirates

2B Adam Frazier (L)
RF Gregory Polanco (L)
CF Starling Marte (R)
1B Josh Bell (S)
LF Corey Dickerson (L)
C F. Cervelli (R)
3B Colin Moran (L)
SS Jordy Mercer (R)
P Chad Kuhl (R)

Brewers

CF Lorenzo Cain (R)
LF C. Yelich (L)
1B Ryan Braun (R)
3B Travis Shaw (L)
RF Domingo Santana (R)
2B Eric Sogard (L)
SS Orlando Arcia (R)
C Jett Bandy (R)
P Chase Anderson (R)


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#2

Posted: May 06, 2018, 9:13 AM Post
Posts: 13848
Braun back in the lineup today. Sogard, incredibly, gets his 3rd consecutive start.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#3

Posted: May 06, 2018, 9:21 AM Post
Posts: 72
Sogard starting again AND batting 6th. I might be alone in this but I think CC does a horrible job at putting our offense in a position to succeed. Unless Villar is hurt, this is unacceptable.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#4

Posted: May 06, 2018, 9:36 AM Post
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Villar is 2 for 11 against Kuhl and Perez is 0 for 7, so probably playing matchups today with Sogard (who is 2 for 3).

He also may not have had a hit yesterday but still made quite an impact at the plate (even if it was just taking bad pitches).


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#5

Posted: May 06, 2018, 9:47 AM Post
Posts: 72
Greenleaf1 said:
Villar is 2 for 11 against Kuhl and Perez is 0 for 7, so probably playing matchups today with Sogard (who is 2 for 3).

He also may not have had a hit yesterday but still made quite an impact at the plate (even if it was just taking bad pitches).

If the decision to start sogard for the third straight day is based on a combined 21 at bats by 3 players, I feel worse about the situation.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#6

Posted: May 06, 2018, 10:18 AM Post
Posts: 85
Location: Washburn, WI
I have a feeling that this is Sogard’s “last straw” and that is why they are giving him a few games in a row to see if he can turn it around.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#7

Posted: May 06, 2018, 10:27 AM Post
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RollieTime said:
I have a feeling that this is Sogard’s “last straw” and that is why they are giving him a few games in a row to see if he can turn it around.


I hope you’re right, because there is no other good explanation. And even if this is true, batting him 6th is a joke.

I am not Shea Vucinich


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#8

Posted: May 06, 2018, 10:33 AM Post
Posts: 304
Counsel loves his “veteran savvyness”...or a “grinder”


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#9

Posted: May 06, 2018, 10:36 AM Post
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Posts: 1654
If the decision to start sogard for the third straight day is based on a combined 21 at bats by 3 players, I feel worse about the situation.

Yep. Because if it's true that Craig "Clouseau" Counsell is using a handful of AB to justify his decision then he is picking and choosing how he uses statistics. Which is mismanagement at it finest. Sure today looks like the right decision, but if applied across the board Sogard shouldn't have started any other games.


I have a feeling that this is Sogard’s “last straw” and that is why they are giving him a few games in a row to see if he can turn it around.

Then why not play him in Cincinnati where we are facing a team with less pitching talent and his futility has less of an impact on the Brewers winning? It's not your decision so I am not getting on you RollieTime, but if that is the thinking then it's another example of poor management by the Brewers. As I've stated before, a manager who tied a record for consecutive futility isn't effected in the least by Sogard's craptastic start to the season and will continue to roll him out there. If your best case scenario is the player doesn't swing, then they have no business being on your team. As the Nugget Miner had a talking with Yost, Macha, and RRR at times, Stearns needs to have a frank conversation with CCC on his use of Sogard.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#10

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:19 AM Post
Posts: 2116
RollieTime said:
I have a feeling that this is Sogard’s “last straw” and that is why they are giving him a few games in a row to see if he can turn it around.


I was thinking this too. Happen to run into a few starters in a row others have struggled against. Give him one last shot to play a handful of games in a row and see if he can get it figured out. If not make the change.

I was on the road last night, so had it on the radio. Anyone else catch Sogards post game interview? He made kind of a sarcastic comment about "I sure haven't missed any gloves this year". He's a bench player so you don't hear a ton from him. I could buy into the nice guy who tries hard line, but for the first interview I've really ever heard from him, he kind of rubbed me the wrong way with his comments. Curious if anyone else took it that way, or if I misinterpreted.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#11

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:28 AM Post
Posts: 716
Location: Oshkosh
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#12

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:34 AM Post
Posts: 1854
I think we need to consider the idea that CC is playing Sogard so that he breaks CC's record of consecutive ABs without a hit.

I just knew after lastnight he was going to get another start today and not only that, he gets bumped up in the lineup. If CC is counting on the Pirates to continue to pitch to him like he's Barry Bonds, we can look forward to a loss today.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#13

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:34 AM Post
Posts: 1854
SomewhereInTime said:
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.

You forgot to put this in blue.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#14

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:39 AM Post
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Posts: 987
I hope this is some sort of last hurrah for him. Though they could also be doubling down on his 3 walks from yesterday.

reillymcshane said:
Remember what Yoda said:

"Cubs lead to Cardinals. Cardinals lead to dislike. Dislike leads to hate. Hate leads to constipation."


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#15

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:46 AM Post
Posts: 716
Location: Oshkosh
PinaMadness said:
SomewhereInTime said:
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.

You forgot to put this in blue.


I take it the only number you understand is batting average? You probably think Johnathon Villar is off to a pretty good start this year don't you?


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#16

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:51 AM Post
Posts: 13848
You could at least try to defend your points without being completely condescending.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#17

Posted: May 06, 2018, 11:57 AM Post
Posts: 2116
SomewhereInTime said:
PinaMadness said:
SomewhereInTime said:
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.

You forgot to put this in blue.


I take it the only number you understand is batting average? You probably think Johnathon Villar is off to a pretty good start this year don't you?


You can't fully buy BABIP just like you can't BA. Villar has speed and usually comes out of the left side... Leads to more IF singles, and hits off weak contact. Not a bad thing, that's part of what he brings to the table. Villar not off to a great start, but sure as heck better than Sogard.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#18

Posted: May 06, 2018, 12:00 PM Post
Posts: 1854
SomewhereInTime said:
PinaMadness said:
SomewhereInTime said:
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.

You forgot to put this in blue.


I take it the only number you understand is batting average? You probably think Johnathon Villar is off to a pretty good start this year don't you?

He's off to a better start than Sogard.

I really hate when people use extended stats to make a case because they really mean nothing. You don't get brownie points for hitting a ball long or hard when they result in outs. And it's not just his offense. He has no range as a defender and not nearly as good with the glove as Arcia. We can blame him single handedly for one of the losses to the Cubs because of his defense. Well, him and CC for starting him at shortstop that game. The one thing about stats is, stats lie. Sogard just doesn't belong on a major league roster, and sometimes I wonder if he even belongs on a AA roster.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#19

Posted: May 06, 2018, 12:06 PM Post
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Posts: 1408
I'd like to see Sogard gone, because we'd be free of the anti-Sogard posts which seem to dominate every IGT. We get it, you don't like him, as evidenced by the numerous posts saying the exact same thing.


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Offline  Re: 2018-05-06: Pirates (Kuhl) at Brewers (Anderson) 1:10 PM CDT
#20

Posted: May 06, 2018, 12:07 PM Post
Posts: 72
SomewhereInTime said:
Sogard has a BABIP of .143 with a 26% LD rate Hard Contact 32.6%
Arcia by comparison has a BABIP of .277 13% LD rate Hard Contact 30.7%
Villar .397 BABIP 20.3% and 29.7%
Perez .213 16.3% and 24%

Sogard is easily the best hitter of the four and has a much better K/BB ratio than any of the other three. He absolutely has been unlucky and deserves a chance to get his standard numbers up. If anyone's actually watched the last two games, he's lined out to an outfielder twice, hit a flyout to the wall, hit into a DP and walked three times.

If I'm Counsell, I play him every day at either 2B or SS.


At some point actual results matter too.


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