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2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]

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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 1:38 AM Post
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I strongly disagree with rickh about you shouldn't sell tickets to Cubs fans or whatever but I do agree with him that if you live within reasonable distance to Miller Park then you kind of forfeit the right to complain about all the Cubs fans at Miller Park on a message board while the game is going on.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 5:16 AM Post
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Craig Counsell might be the best manager in baseball. Stop it.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 6:04 AM Post
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Bigger issue I worry about is long term mental hurdle of them having our number. Hope we don't need a big win against them late in the season or god forbid a playoff series. We'll see.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 6:07 AM Post
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There is no mental hurdle. They hit better than we do, and if we have the best bullpen, theirs is a close second. They're really good and winning most of these games against us without scoring many runs. The Brewers are good and stuck with the most talented NL team in their own division, unfortunate, but have to start finding ways to beat them.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: June 12, 2018, 6:47 AM Post
Posts: 895
Location: Madison, WI
ReverendBrewmeister said:
adambr2 said:
The dominance in this rivalry by the Cubs is what will be putting them in first tonight. Just pitiful performances time and time again everytime we see the opposing Cubs jerseys.


Is the Cubs roster just player-to-player better? If not, then the mental or whatever issue that the Brewers are having need to be figured out. It is more than frustrating to see the results in the season series so far. It might end up not only costing the division, but a playoff spot period.


The Cubs appear to have the better team on paper. And so far the performance, now through a good chunk of the season, makes the Cubs look like a better team.

Runs per game:
Cubs = 5.05
Brewers = 4.33
Obviously not even close here. We all know about the Brewer problems at the bottom of the lineup, and unfortunately the bottom of the lineup is not just limited to the 7-9 spots in the order. 40% of the way into the season, playing what is probably the best team in the division, and Hernan Perez is batting fifth in the lineup. .252/.274/.361/.636 batting fifth. Meanwhile the worst performers of the top 8 in at-bats for the Cubs are Addison Russell (.708 OPS is the lowest OPS but is offset by a more than good enough .341 OBP), Javier Baez (.286 OBP is by far the worst OBP of the top 8, but he's on pace for 35 home run season and is OPS'ing .807) and Jason Heyward (the big bad contract for the Cubs is still slashing a respectable .281/.339/.421/.760).

Starters ERA:
Cubs = 3.49
Brewers = 4.12
Ignoring the numbers, and just looking at the rosters on paper, and this would appear to be the biggest mismatch between the two teams. And so far the performances have backed that up. Even terrible starts by Quintana and Darvish have not been enough to make this comparison close. So far ERA's stack up as: Lester = 2.22, Hendricks = 3.48, Chatwood = 3.86, Quintana = 4.09, Darvish = 4.95 and Montgomery has pitched to a starter's ERA of 1.02 when having to fill in for Darvish. Chatwood has an ugly 1.78 WHIP to go along with Darvish's 4.95 ERA but otherwise the Cub's rotation appears solid. Meanwhile the Brewer rotation ERA's stack up as: Guerra = 2.71, Chacin = 3.58, Anderson= 4.57, Suter = 4.82, Davies = 5.23. And the 6th player with the most starts after those 5 is Woodruff, and in his four starts he has a 6.32 ERA.

Bullpen ERA:
Brewers = 2.70
Cubs = 2.73
This is where the Brewers will have an advantage over most teams, but with the Cubs it's almost a push.
Top 8 Brewer relievers in appearances:
-Jeffress = 0.55 ERA, 0.77 WHIP
-Hader = 1.22 WHIP, 0.70 WHIP
-Barnes = 2.16 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
-Williams = 2.22 ERA, 1.03 WHIP
-Jennings = 3.38 ERA, 1.41 WHIP
-Albers = 3.45 ERA, 1.15 WHIP
-Knebel = 4.26 ERA, 1.11 WHIP
-Logan = 4.82 ERA, 1.93 WHIP
Top 8 Cub relievers in appearances:
-Morrow = 1.66 ERA, 1.11 WHIP
-Cishek = 1.88 ERA, 1.01 WHIP
-Strop = 1.95 ERA, 1.05 WHIP
-Wilson = 2.28 ERA, 1.34 WHIP
-Edwards = 2.88 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
-Duensing = 4.05 ERA, 1.55 WHIP
-Farrell = 4.05 ERA, 1.28 WHIP
-Montgomery = 5.33 ERA, 1.46 WHIP
Brewers may have an advantage with Jeffress/Hader over Morrow/Cishek, but even that doesn't figure to be a great advantage long-term because Morrow and Cishek are quality relievers. Outside of that there really is not great advantage for Milwaukee when stacking up the remainder of the relievers, but it would help if Knebel gets on a roll like he was on last season.


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Online  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: June 12, 2018, 7:11 AM Post
Posts: 12506
rickh150 said:

Funny thing, I was there, front row taking the heckling in the 11th. You? Probably flying the ol Cubs W flag... congrats on the win and net cash, by the way.


I live a 3 hour drive from Miller Park and still go to 5-6 games a year. I have a family of 5 with two toddlers and I am the sole income provider for the 5 of us at about 60 hours a week. This is the most I can afford to invest in both time and money. Hope it is okay with you.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: June 12, 2018, 7:32 AM Post
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adambr2 said:
rickh150 said:

Funny thing, I was there, front row taking the heckling in the 11th. You? Probably flying the ol Cubs W flag... congrats on the win and net cash, by the way.


I live a 3 hour drive from Miller Park and still go to 5-6 games a year. I have a family of 5 with two toddlers and I am the sole income provider for the 5 of us at about 60 hours a week. This is the most I can afford to invest in both time and money. Hope it is okay with you.


Don’t go down this hole with him. He seems to be permanently stuck down there on a few issues and wants to drag as many as he can. I’ve nicknamed him Pennywise for myself to remind myself to just laugh at 99% of this crap.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:04 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
adambr2 said:
rickh150 said:

Funny thing, I was there, front row taking the heckling in the 11th. You? Probably flying the ol Cubs W flag... congrats on the win and net cash, by the way.


I live a 3 hour drive from Miller Park and still go to 5-6 games a year. I have a family of 5 with two toddlers and I am the sole income provider for the 5 of us at about 60 hours a week. This is the most I can afford to invest in both time and money. Hope it is okay with you.


Don’t go down this hole with him. He seems to be permanently stuck down there on a few issues and wants to drag as many as he can. I’ve nicknamed him Pennywise for myself to remind myself to just laugh at 99% of this crap.


He's getting a little ridiculous. A few years ago he'd have been banned by now.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:06 AM Post
Posts: 1977
Location: New Berlin, WI
I was at the game yesterday, the single best part of the game for me was watching Schwarber try playing left field. That guy is an absolute disaster out there, most of my bar league softball team is better in the outfield than him. It's actually hilarious.

Aside from that, I felt like CC was trying too hard to be efficient with his relievers. It was pretty clear early on that Hader didn't have his A grade stuff. Wasn't hitting his spots like he does and couldn't really command his slider well. I felt like CC should have had a quicker hook with him. I also was a bit surprised that Jeffress wasn't sent out for a 2nd inning. I'm sure CC was thinking he wanted him available Tuesday, but getting through that inning could have been huge as the top of the order was coming up. I thought it made sense to keep your best out there for 1 more inning and give the top of your order another shot to break through for the win before going to your lesser relievers.

But the efficiency thing generally bugs me. We have 8 guys in the pen and most have barely pitched at all over the last week or so due to off days and whatnot. Heck that's probably part of why Hader and Knebel didn't have their A game. Albers clearly didn't have it either, it was like a hit parade up there. Turn to Barnes or Williams sooner while it's still a 1 run game with a couple runners on and give our guys a chance. Don't let it blow up to a 7-2 game trying to save a ton of relievers. If it really gets bad, you can swap someone out for a fresh Lopez.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:12 AM Post
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Brew4U said:
Jonathan Villar admitted he rushed when trying to tag Ben Zobrist at second base in the eighth inning. "Arcia was crying loud, ‘Tag, tag, tag!’ because I think (Zobrist) is close to the base," he said. "I tried taking the ball too quick but I missed the ball."


Arcia is a gift that keeps on giving...


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:32 AM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
I was at the game yesterday, the single best part of the game for me was watching Schwarber try playing left field. That guy is an absolute disaster out there, most of my bar league softball team is better in the outfield than him. It's actually hilarious.

Aside from that, I felt like CC was trying too hard to be efficient with his relievers. It was pretty clear early on that Hader didn't have his A grade stuff. Wasn't hitting his spots like he does and couldn't really command his slider well. I felt like CC should have had a quicker hook with him. I also was a bit surprised that Jeffress wasn't sent out for a 2nd inning. I'm sure CC was thinking he wanted him available Tuesday, but getting through that inning could have been huge as the top of the order was coming up. I thought it made sense to keep your best out there for 1 more inning and give the top of your order another shot to break through for the win before going to your lesser relievers.

But the efficiency thing generally bugs me. We have 8 guys in the pen and most have barely pitched at all over the last week or so due to off days and whatnot. Heck that's probably part of why Hader and Knebel didn't have their A game. Albers clearly didn't have it either, it was like a hit parade up there. Turn to Barnes or Williams sooner while it's still a 1 run game with a couple runners on and give our guys a chance. Don't let it blow up to a 7-2 game trying to save a ton of relievers. If it really gets bad, you can swap someone out for a fresh Lopez.


That game was lost IMO when Perez doubled with 0 out and we stranded him, not sure that another hitter even made contact. That can't happen. We needed that run.

Our bullpen has been so good that we are quick to point fingers at it when it falters, the offense so consistently bad that we barely notice it anymore. The offense can't continually expect the bullpen to be lockdown every night. This team would probably be under .500 if the bullpen hadn't been lights out.

They need to score more runs. They need Thames back, and maybe some external talent.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:46 AM Post
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Posts: 394
Location: Clarksville, TN
xisxisxis said:
Brew4U said:
Jonathan Villar admitted he rushed when trying to tag Ben Zobrist at second base in the eighth inning. "Arcia was crying loud, ‘Tag, tag, tag!’ because I think (Zobrist) is close to the base," he said. "I tried taking the ball too quick but I missed the ball."


Arcia is a gift that keeps on giving...


I'm glad I'm not the only one who read that and my blood boiled for that guy even more.... is it Miller time yet???????


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:52 AM Post
Posts: 71
trwi7 said:
It's obviously a bad drop by Villar but I don't think it was a mental lapse or anything. He was trying to get the tag down as quickly as he could because he didn't know how close Zobrist was to the base. If he knew how far away Zobrist was, he obviously would've taken more time to make sure he had the ball.

37 yo runner tagging at first, and our MLB 2nd baseman doesn't know where he is? I could have been blindfolded and told you that Zobrist wasn't close to the bag. A gifted double play but a second baseman who fell asleep and wasn't focused. That said, Villar did homer previously and was about the only batter who wasn't crapping his pants against a very lame Quintana who would have a 7.0 ERA minus the brewer games.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:55 AM Post
Posts: 71
trwi7 said:
I strongly disagree with rickh about you shouldn't sell tickets to Cubs fans or whatever but I do agree with him that if you live within reasonable distance to Miller Park then you kind of forfeit the right to complain about all the Cubs fans at Miller Park on a message board while the game is going on.

The brewers solicit more Cub fans by charging more for tickets and more for parking. And they can take a different approach as well. For instance the Astros don't just sell tickets over the internet with purchases from out of state credit cards, without the person having to make a phone call. This wouldn't do away with all Cub fans but the brewers price their own fans out of the games to make a bit more $$ off Cub fans. If you want to reduce Cub fans then don't raise the parking prices and ticket prices for Cub games that price some Brewer fans out of the market.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 8:59 AM Post
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Changing the prices of tickets will do a thing. This is a simple numbers game. A very tiny fan base from a small market up against possibly the league's largest fan base from a gigantic metro area that practically spills into its own. They will always be at the games. The subject is so played out.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 9:02 AM Post
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Posts: 394
Location: Clarksville, TN
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Changing the prices of tickets will do a thing. This is a simple numbers game. A very tiny fan base from a small market up against possibly the league's largest fan base from a gigantic metro area that practically spills into its own. They will always be at the games. The subject is so played out.



exactly.

the basic fact that we draw as well as we do, with the smallest market in baseball.... is a testament to our fan base.

nothing you can do about a much much much larger fan base going to our home stadium.... besides beat them on the field more and more .... which has not happened...


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 9:13 AM Post
Posts: 71
MillerParkSouth said:
Craig Counsell might be the best manager in baseball. Stop it.

I think Counsell is a very good manager but has little experience in big games/playoff games and has to do a better job managing prime games.

Experienced playoff seasoned managers understand that you necessarily have to be more aggressive in these monster games and leave the comfort zones that a manager finds in playing the numbers games against non elite teams.

Counsell stuck to his guns last night and was extremely conservative. While the decision to pull Jeffries after one inning was conservative, it was also logical since Hader was burned for the entire series and Abers has pitched solid all year and was still available. But against a hot batting team like the Cubs and with Jeffries in command, the better play imo would have been to leave Jeffries in. Essentially, not worrying about tomorrow and playing for the win...….and much needed psych and confidence for the team.

On offense, we put up a lineup that was conservative, data based, and did what Counsell always does in these Cub games, sits Left handed batters. But after we see the same results over and over again, maybe it's time to just play your best players. Sitting Shaw made some sense as he is 1 for 14 against Q but I just don't think it sends the right message to the ballclub sitting your stud players in a bigtime national game. Obvoiusly, Aguilar is going through a funk as his avg dropped 50 points recently, albeit a few HR's, but sitting both Shaw and Thames seems really odd.

On the other hand, Madden allowed haywood to hit against Hader. He delivered.

But at the end of the day, Counsell's moves were justified, even if there may have been a more aggressive approach, and we lost this game because our players simply choked. On defense, and of course on offense. No confidence against the Cubs but we give the Cubs a lot of confidence against us. Hopefully, we can get lucky and at least win one game in the series.

Oh, and btw, the Cubs are the better team as well.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 9:14 AM Post
Posts: 60
OldSchoolSnapper said:
Changing the prices of tickets will do a thing. This is a simple numbers game. A very tiny fan base from a small market up against possibly the league's largest fan base from a gigantic metro area that practically spills into its own. They will always be at the games. The subject is so played out.


Yep. Also, there are a ton of Cub fans all over the state of Wisconsin that are going to these games at Miller Park, so I don't think restrictions on out of state ticket purchases does much of anything.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 9:23 AM Post
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Posts: 1005
Location: Green Bay for the summer!
OldSchoolSnapper said:
KeithStone53151 said:
I was at the game yesterday, the single best part of the game for me was watching Schwarber try playing left field. That guy is an absolute disaster out there, most of my bar league softball team is better in the outfield than him. It's actually hilarious.

Aside from that, I felt like CC was trying too hard to be efficient with his relievers. It was pretty clear early on that Hader didn't have his A grade stuff. Wasn't hitting his spots like he does and couldn't really command his slider well. I felt like CC should have had a quicker hook with him. I also was a bit surprised that Jeffress wasn't sent out for a 2nd inning. I'm sure CC was thinking he wanted him available Tuesday, but getting through that inning could have been huge as the top of the order was coming up. I thought it made sense to keep your best out there for 1 more inning and give the top of your order another shot to break through for the win before going to your lesser relievers.

But the efficiency thing generally bugs me. We have 8 guys in the pen and most have barely pitched at all over the last week or so due to off days and whatnot. Heck that's probably part of why Hader and Knebel didn't have their A game. Albers clearly didn't have it either, it was like a hit parade up there. Turn to Barnes or Williams sooner while it's still a 1 run game with a couple runners on and give our guys a chance. Don't let it blow up to a 7-2 game trying to save a ton of relievers. If it really gets bad, you can swap someone out for a fresh Lopez.


That game was lost IMO when Perez doubled with 0 out and we stranded him, not sure that another hitter even made contact. That can't happen. We needed that run.

Our bullpen has been so good that we are quick to point fingers at it when it falters, the offense so consistently bad that we barely notice it anymore. The offense can't continually expect the bullpen to be lockdown every night. This team would probably be under .500 if the bullpen hadn't been lights out.

They need to score more runs. They need Thames back, and maybe some external talent.


IMO the turning point in the game was the botched double play by Villar when Cain threw the ball in to him but he dropped a sure tag at 2nd. Villar makes that play and more than likely we leave that inning with the lead.


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Offline  Re: 2018-06-11: Cubs (Quintana) at Brewers (Guerra) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2, 11 innings]
Posted: June 12, 2018, 9:38 AM Post
Posts: 1977
Location: New Berlin, WI
Pugger said:

IMO the turning point in the game was the botched double play by Villar when Cain threw the ball in to him but he dropped a sure tag at 2nd. Villar makes that play and more than likely we leave that inning with the lead.


This is absolutely fair, I don't know why Villar has such a hard time with tags. On SB attempts as well that type of thing happens so often to him. I'd bet 90% of all 2b in the minors make that play consistently...that was as routine as it gets considering the throw from Cain.


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