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2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT [Brewers lose, 2-1]

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Online  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 1:47 PM Post
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Location: Pilgrim in an unholy land
trwi7 said:
Harvey'sWBs said:
If Burnes can do that consistently, something tells me CC will see much less criticism for his bullpen usage during close deficits.


If Counsell is keeping Burnes in the bullpen while the rest of these clowns struggle to make it through 5 innings then Counsell is going to face more criticism, as he and Stearns should.


1) Burnes will likely need innings control, and the bullpen is the best way to do that. He will also impact more games down the stretch this way, as Hader has done so far.

2) Who would you prefer in the rotation that is realistically available now or was this winter? You could argue Chacin is better dollar for dollar than most of the big offseason additions, and the pitching market is barren right now.

3) After another close game loss, this should be clear: the pitching is not the problem in the Cream City.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 1:49 PM Post
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Location: La Crosse
YelichPosse said:
Is the second game now almost a must win ?

We all know Sunday is an auto L...

Ugh just so disappointed right now. Still close to first place... we have a good team .... I’ll keep telling myself this

It's an absolute most win. If we don't win, there is no way the Brewers can make the playoffs.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 1:51 PM Post
Posts: 15301
Hand the umpire a lineup card that is so bad that Hernan Perez is your cleanup hitter, you deserve to score about 1 run. And so they did.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 1:55 PM Post
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MrTPlush said:

History is completely meaningless. It’s a negative attitude unless you can see into the future. But whatever floats your boat.


Not sure why history is meaningless. Are all statistics meaningless? Sure, there are outliers, but in general they hold true. When has having an all-or-nothing offense ended positively for the Brewers? They have been playing over their head all season, with the bullpen covering for a sub-par offense. Now it’s catching up to them.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 1:57 PM Post
Posts: 1085
Location: Madison, WI
adambr2 said:
Hand the umpire a lineup card that is so bad that Hernan Perez is your cleanup hitter, you deserve to score about 1 run. And so they did.


Perez shouldn't be hitting cleanup for a AAA team.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:04 PM Post
Posts: 15301
Also, this is somewhat contradictory to my comment on Perez, but Darrnell Coles deserves to lose his job. We didn't add Cain and Yelich to the roster for this. I know there have been injuries and blah blah blah, and I'm not saying this is all his fault, but at some point after years of underachieving the guy in charge needs to be held accountable.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:12 PM Post
Posts: 2801
adambr2 said:
Also, this is somewhat contradictory to my comment on Perez, but Darrnell Coles deserves to lose his job. We didn't add Cain and Yelich to the roster for this. I know there have been injuries and blah blah blah, and I'm not saying this is all his fault, but at some point after years of underachieving the guy in charge needs to be held accountable.

Darnell Coles: the Dom Capers of the Brewers.

"You're not going to have him when you want him and you're going to run out of games. He can't pitch 90 games. It's just not going to work. If anyone thinks it's going to work, show me how."- Craig Counsell on Josh Hader.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:16 PM Post
Posts: 295
Location: Wisconsin
wildcat83 said:
BruisedCrew said:
4 hits, but just 1 run thanks to Anderson being unable to sacrifice and then not being able to go from first to third on a ground single to right field.

In series like this it always seems like the opponent responds to every score from the Brewers. Let’s see if Anderson can avoid that today.


Unable to go first to third? That was a rope from Yelich, I don't think Broxton goes first to third on that. He's meat if he tries, the Pirates have very good outfield arms. That's not at all a bad play by Chase.


A rope? It was a sharp ground ball that found a hole and rolled out to a right fielder that was playing deep. I’m not saying Anderson should have tried for third, but a non pitcher with any speed at all would have cruised into third on that kind of hit with two outs.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:17 PM Post
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Harvey'sWBs said:
1) Burnes will likely need innings control, and the bullpen is the best way to do that. He will also impact more games down the stretch this way, as Hader has done so far.


He pitched 145 innings last year. Make him the 5th starter and assume the absolute best case scenario where he goes 7 innings in all of his 12 starts. That would give him 84 innings on top of the 82.2 he's pitched this year. That gives him 166.2 innings, not exactly a drastic increase and you could also skip a start or two in September if necessary.

2) Who would you prefer in the rotation that is realistically available now or was this winter? You could argue Chacin is better dollar for dollar than most of the big offseason additions, and the pitching market is barren right now.


This has nothing to do with my post.

3) After another close game loss, this should be clear: the pitching is not the problem in the Cream City.


The starters barely going 5 innings (5.3 average from the starters this year) is a problem because it forces the bullpen to cover at minimum 3 innings per game on average which leads to a lot of overuse which limits the effectiveness of one of the team's biggest strengths.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:17 PM Post
Posts: 821
Is Josh Hader going to go another week without pitching?


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:19 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
Also, this is somewhat contradictory to my comment on Perez, but Darrnell Coles deserves to lose his job. We didn't add Cain and Yelich to the roster for this. I know there have been injuries and blah blah blah, and I'm not saying this is all his fault, but at some point after years of underachieving the guy in charge needs to be held accountable.


I for one am absolutely shocked that guys who fluked their way to career years aren't repeating them and I will only blame the hitting coach for this.

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:21 PM Post
Posts: 3637
Naw, he will probably pitch 3 innings in the all star game so they skip the opening dodger series with him after the break


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Online  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:43 PM Post
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trwi7 said:
Harvey'sWBs said:
1) Burnes will likely need innings control, and the bullpen is the best way to do that. He will also impact more games down the stretch this way, as Hader has done so far.


He pitched 145 innings last year. Make him the 5th starter and assume the absolute best case scenario where he goes 7 innings in all of his 12 starts. That would give him 84 innings on top of the 82.2 he's pitched this year. That gives him 166.2 innings, not exactly a drastic increase and you could also skip a start or two in September if necessary.

2) Who would you prefer in the rotation that is realistically available now or was this winter? You could argue Chacin is better dollar for dollar than most of the big offseason additions, and the pitching market is barren right now.


This has nothing to do with my post.

3) After another close game loss, this should be clear: the pitching is not the problem in the Cream City.


The starters barely going 5 innings (5.3 average from the starters this year) is a problem because it forces the bullpen to cover at minimum 3 innings per game on average which leads to a lot of overuse which limits the effectiveness of one of the team's biggest strengths.


I’ll half concede point number one in light of the innings pitched figures you cited, yet I’m still not convinced Burnes would be as effective in 5 (and certainly not your proposed 7) innings every 5 days as he is in one or two innings every two or three days. He certainly wasn’t more effective starting this year in AAA (and sure, tougher environment but easier opponents than he’ll see down the stretch).

On point two, I cited the pitching market because you mentioned Stearns, and assumed you meant we wouldn’t be in this predicament (although I wouldn’t characterize it that way) had Stearns built a better rotation. My fault for apparently misreading your point.

On point three, I’m not sure how anyone can conclude the offense isn’t the team’s biggest problem, but you don’t seem to dispute that, and instead reiterated your original point that the starters need to log more innings to avoid bullpen burnout. To this I say, maybe. It remains to be seen if the bullpen will crack, as of yet, the sample size is too small. I, too, have seen how bad Barnes et al have looked lately and would prefer they not get high-leverage innings for a while, but I still seriously doubt Barnes starting is the solution. And the ones who (theoretically) in the best position to judge that—namely CC, Stearns, and DJ—have apparently the same doubts.

What is best in life? To crush the Cardinals, Cubs, and Manny Machado, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their fanboys.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 2:44 PM Post
Posts: 15301
trwi7 said:
adambr2 said:
Also, this is somewhat contradictory to my comment on Perez, but Darrnell Coles deserves to lose his job. We didn't add Cain and Yelich to the roster for this. I know there have been injuries and blah blah blah, and I'm not saying this is all his fault, but at some point after years of underachieving the guy in charge needs to be held accountable.


I for one am absolutely shocked that guys who fluked their way to career years aren't repeating them and I will only blame the hitting coach for this.


I even said in my post I'm sure a lot of this isn't on Coles, but you just think guys like Santana, Arcia, and Villar...just suck, or what?


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 3:23 PM Post
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adambr2 said:
trwi7 said:
adambr2 said:
Also, this is somewhat contradictory to my comment on Perez, but Darrnell Coles deserves to lose his job. We didn't add Cain and Yelich to the roster for this. I know there have been injuries and blah blah blah, and I'm not saying this is all his fault, but at some point after years of underachieving the guy in charge needs to be held accountable.


I for one am absolutely shocked that guys who fluked their way to career years aren't repeating them and I will only blame the hitting coach for this.


I even said in my post I'm sure a lot of this isn't on Coles, but you just think guys like Santana, Arcia, and Villar...just suck, or what?


I don't think Villar or Arcia are especially talented hitters. Santana this year is a lot like Yelich. He's hitting the ball hard, he's just hitting it on the ground a lot (-5% LD% compared to last year, +6% GB%.)

Cards' fans wear jorts.


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 4:09 PM Post
Posts: 5959
Why try for 3rd there?


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Offline  Re: 2018-07-14, Game #1: Brewers (Anderson) at Pirates (Nova) 11:35 AM CDT
Posted: July 14, 2018, 4:23 PM Post
Posts: 242
JosephC said:
adambr2 said:
Hand the umpire a lineup card that is so bad that Hernan Perez is your cleanup hitter, you deserve to score about 1 run. And so they did.


Perez shouldn't be hitting cleanup for a AAA team.

No kidding but the only other choice is Miller since Aguilar was given a rest game.

Team has lost confidence and is free falling against stiff pitchers like the Dbacks did earlier in the year. Hopefully, we can right this ship while there is time. Broxton, Orf, and Villar will get it going.


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