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2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 5-1 -- 2018 Season Comes to a Close]

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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:12 PM Post
Posts: 3029
TJH123 said:
Do whatever it takes to get Paul Goldschmidt, bring up Keston Hiura, who very hopefully pans out, get rid of Aguilar, get rid of Schoop, and this offense should be way more efficient. Not sure about Moustakas. Arcia needs to take that mojo into 2019


No scenario allows for acquiring PG without giving up Hiura. We shot our bullets this year.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:13 PM Post
Posts: 3708
The Brewers reached the NLCS primarily on the backs of a quality bullpen, solid defense, and an otherwordly 2nd half from Yelich - plus other key bats were seemingly getting hot at the right time.

The Brewers lost the NLCS in 7 games because their offense didn't come through nearly enough when it mattered most - that includes Yelich, who was decent but not a difference maker. Seeing the bats behind him in the order largely struggle made it even worse considering Yelich still got on base enough with walks...would've been great to get to the World Series to give a guy like Santana DH at bats and then watch how Boston would have to modify their lineup to try and get key bats in an NL park if the pressure was on, but the Brewers would have needed to truly shock the world in order to beat the Red Sox 4 times in 7 games.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:13 PM Post
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Frankly I think this team achieved as much as it possibly could have without a few additional lucky bounces going their way. They reached their ceiling and that's really impressive.

"Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power......He probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop." Keith Law, 2006


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:13 PM Post
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The 'stache said:
Joey Meyer Bombs said:
adambr2 said:
Don't blame Jeffress. The game was over as soon as Bellinger went yard in the 2nd. It's the offense.


Yep ... 2-1 or 5-1, doesn't matter. You can't generate offense, you lose. The pitching carried this team this far. The offense choked in this series.


I can blame Jeffress. 2-1, the Brewers still feel like they have a fighting chance, and the crowd is still in it. 5-1, the crowd is silenced, the air is sucked out of Miller Park, and the team is dejected.

There's a world of difference between being one swing of the bat from tying it up, and needing a grand slam to tie it (because we really suck at small ball, for the most part). Jeffress serving up a gopher pitch to Puig was the knife in the back. And he's done it time and time again.

If I'm a Brewer player, I don't know if I can look the guy in the eye in the lockerroom. Hes put them behind the 8-ball too much.


When your offense stinks at times like ours did this year your pitching has to be damn near perfect and frankly that's asking a hell of a lot from our great bullpen. Maybe these Brewer players you speak of in your post here should APOLOGIZE to guys like JJ for not supporting them by scoring more than one freaking run in the biggest game of the season.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:14 PM Post
Posts: 856
bucks2281 said:
Guys, the stars aligned this year. We are going to rue this game for a long time.

So true. This happens as often as an eclipse. There is no reason to believe this will happen again soon. In this market you have to take advantage of this kind of opportunity. Too bad.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:14 PM Post
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rickh150 said:
Disagree. Bunting has its place. Getting a guy to 2nd or 3rd with a bunt, especially with a pitcher or low OBP guy to turn the lineup over, is needed especially when top notch pitching is on the hill. For the big inning, no, bunting has no place, I'll agree with you. You are talking about one run. Having a contact hitter or three on your bench to hit the ball when a guy is at 3rd has its place, as well. In Game 7, I agree with you. It's not why we lost.



You are simply wrong. A runner on 2nd with no outs vs a runner on 3rd with 1 out is a 4% increase in a chance to score a single run. The odds with a runner on 1st vs runner on 2nd are similar. So you have to be successful with the bunt over 90% of the time for it to be a valid strategy. It is extremely rare for this to be the case. Bunting in the current game of baseball is a huge mistake unless you have a pitcher up or an elite bunter up.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:17 PM Post
Posts: 856
Ennder said:
rickh150 said:
Disagree. Bunting has its place. Getting a guy to 2nd or 3rd with a bunt, especially with a pitcher or low OBP guy to turn the lineup over, is needed especially when top notch pitching is on the hill. For the big inning, no, bunting has no place, I'll agree with you. You are talking about one run. Having a contact hitter or three on your bench to hit the ball when a guy is at 3rd has its place, as well. In Game 7, I agree with you. It's not why we lost.



You are simply wrong. A runner on 2nd with no outs vs a runner on 3rd with 1 out is a 4% increase in a chance to score a single run. The odds with a runner on 1st vs runner on 2nd are similar. So you have to be successful with the bunt over 90% of the time for it to be a valid strategy. It is extremely rare for this to be the case. Bunting in the current game of baseball is a huge mistake unless you have a pitcher up or an elite bunter up.

I don't think bunting is the issue but you have to hit a ground ball on the right side. Hit a flyball. Fundamental baseball.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:17 PM Post
Posts: 3708
Boomer5 said:
TJH123 said:
Do whatever it takes to get Paul Goldschmidt, bring up Keston Hiura, who very hopefully pans out, get rid of Aguilar, get rid of Schoop, and this offense should be way more efficient. Not sure about Moustakas. Arcia needs to take that mojo into 2019


No scenario allows for acquiring PG without giving up Hiura. We shot our bullets this year.


Never say never - this Brewer roster probably needs to make a few deals using current 40 man roster players to make sense for next year...despite reaching Game 7 of the NLCS, I anticipate Steams making alot of moves again this offseason while trying to keep the young pitching talent around.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:19 PM Post
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Boomer5 said:
NievesNoNO said:
I agree, there's a lot to be optimistic about but losing at home in a game 7, regardless of opponent and situation is super disappointing. It was all right there for the taking.

Starting pitching still matters.


That would be fine if we had those but we don’t. At least not WS caliber starters. No one is going to take you seriously if you are trotting out Chacin and especially Gio in a championship series. That’s why Counsel had to get creative with the hand he was dealt.

Had the offense been even averag it would have worked too.


I'm not arguing that they should've played it differently. In fact, Counsel did a great job and did what you're supposed to do. Manage to the team's strengths. I'm simply saying when it mattered the Dodgers were able to turn to two really good starters. I'm not disagreeing about the offense, but in playoff baseball, little things do matter. If you could swap out even 3 plays in the series it might be a sweep (for either side). It's so closely contested. I don't necessarily blame the offense, but yes one hit here or there and it's a completely different outcome. They might be one player, career year, lucky bounce, trade away or the opportunity may never come again in my lifetime. I don't think I'm even responding to your post anymore, lol.... anyway I'm super disappointed and optimistic at the same time. Everything in the organization is in place for another strong showing. The season, and then the post season is soooo long though. I think that what makes baseball the best sport and most rewarding to be a fan of. When it finally happens you know you've earned it.....still waiting.....


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:22 PM Post
Posts: 1499
OldSchoolSnapper said:
bucks2281 said:
Guys, the stars aligned this year. We are going to rue this game for a long time.


Not this game, but Game 2 and Game 4, yeah. I can't do the "great memories were made", "good job guys!" thing. Just can't. We are known for losing and we lost again. We should have won this series. The crowning achievement will be game 163, the rest of this will largely be forgotten. It's an '08, '11. An insignificant blip.


Wonderful season, heartbreaking Game 7..... I agree that Game 2 and 4, one of them, should have been a win. I don't agree with your take on how this season will be remembered..... significant September and October that was shocking and special.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:24 PM Post
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How many NLCS losers do you remember 5, 10 years later? Who last it last year or the year before? Yeah, exactly. Ultimately they are a blip. Tonight was their chance to go down in lore and they blew it. Again.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:25 PM Post
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With strikeout rates being what they are in todays game, bunting is a waste, unless you're doing it with your pitcher. Putting a man on third with one out, to give ONE batter a chance to score a run with a grounder or flyball, just doesn't make sense. If I have a man on 2nd, give me 3 tries at a base hit, vs one try at a fly ball, and one try at a basehit. Strikeout rates are just too high in the current iteration of the game to count on sac flies and the like to make bunting a viable strategy.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:28 PM Post
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I feel like this game really hurt our chances at winning the series.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:29 PM Post
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OldSchoolSnapper said:
How many NLCS losers do you remember 5, 10 years later? Who last it last year or the year before? Yeah, exactly. Ultimately they are a blip. Tonight was their chance to go down in lore and they blew it. Again.


You may not remember other teams who lost in the NLCS, but we sure as hell will remember ours!

I get the negativity, we are all severely disappointed in the outcome, but compare this season to most of the recent ones, and this IS a very memorable season.

It wasn't perfect, not even close, but being a Brewers fan since their inception, it is for sure in the top 3 or 4 seasons ever.

I'm not accepting losing, but I am accepting the fact that we played deep into the playoffs, which is far better than not playing in October at all.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:31 PM Post
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Ennder said:
rickh150 said:
Disagree. Bunting has its place. Getting a guy to 2nd or 3rd with a bunt, especially with a pitcher or low OBP guy to turn the lineup over, is needed especially when top notch pitching is on the hill. For the big inning, no, bunting has no place, I'll agree with you. You are talking about one run. Having a contact hitter or three on your bench to hit the ball when a guy is at 3rd has its place, as well. In Game 7, I agree with you. It's not why we lost.



You are simply wrong. A runner on 2nd with no outs vs a runner on 3rd with 1 out is a 4% increase in a chance to score a single run. The odds with a runner on 1st vs runner on 2nd are similar. So you have to be successful with the bunt over 90% of the time for it to be a valid strategy. It is extremely rare for this to be the case. Bunting in the current game of baseball is a huge mistake unless you have a pitcher up or an elite bunter up.



One has to account for the reality of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

In playoff baseball, every run matters, so every little tiny thing to get one run or to prevent one run from scoring makes a HUGE difference. Over the course of the regular season that just isn't the case--primarily because one both faces average pitching and one has to put average pitching on the mound FAR more often, so playing for a big inning makes more sense (like putting on the "contact play") A team simply cannot focus so singularly on every little thing during the regular season because they will burn out...and that is part of what makes baseball the greatest game in eternity.

To be more specific about bunting and the "self-fulfilling prophecy"--well, the more one de-emphasizes bunting (and other small ball skills), the more they become a poorer strategy, since the players playing in the game will not have been working on those types of skills. Which is fine, in the regular season....

But in playoff baseball, every run matters....


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:31 PM Post
Posts: 3788
NievesNoNO said:
I agree, there's a lot to be optimistic about but losing at home in a game 7, regardless of opponent and situation is super disappointing. It was all right there for the taking.

Starting pitching still matters.


Nelson out all year, Suter lost for the season (and most of 2019) with a Tommy John at around the all-star break, Davies done for most the season, Anderson missed time, Miley missed time...

Yes, the bullpen was amazing. Yes, the bullpenning got the Crew to the NLCS. But by the NLCS, Johnny Wholestaff was gassed, Jeffress in particular. He thrown 83.1 innings, counting the post-season - his previous career high was 68.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:32 PM Post
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owbc said:
I feel like this game really hurt our chances at winning the series.


That made me smile (sort of ), thanks


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:33 PM Post
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turborickey said:
OldSchoolSnapper said:
How many NLCS losers do you remember 5, 10 years later? Who last it last year or the year before? Yeah, exactly. Ultimately they are a blip. Tonight was their chance to go down in lore and they blew it. Again.


You may not remember other teams who lost in the NLCS, but we sure as hell will remember ours!

I get the negativity, we are all severely disappointed in the outcome, but compare this season to most of the recent ones, and this IS a very memorable season.

It wasn't perfect, not even close, but being a Brewers fan since their inception, it is for sure in the top 3 or 4 seasons ever.

I'm not accepting losing, but I am accepting the fact that we played deep into the playoffs, which is far better than not playing in October at all.


Better than not playing in October, sure, but I would have preferred the 5-1 loss yesterday when most people expected it. Something about this state that its teams must always string you along and then kill you.


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:36 PM Post
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Ennder said:
There is almost no situation in baseball where a major league hitter bunting helps your chances to score a run unless you have a really fast runner and an elite bunter. This has nothing to do with why we lost.


You're right. That second run, giving the Dodgers a 2-1 lead, instead of making it a tie game, had nothing to do with Counsell pulling Chacin, and going to Hader in the third inning. Being behind, instead of being in a tied game, had nothing to do with the batters pressing at the plate.

In fact, I don't know why hitters ever try to bunt a batter over into scoring position. Just go up there swinging away from now on, guys!

[rolling eyes]

There are three things America will be known for 2000 years from now when they study this civilization: the Constitution, jazz music and baseball. They're the three most beautifully designed things this culture has ever produced. Gerald Early


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Offline  Re: 2018-10-20 (NLCS Game #7): Dodgers (Buehler) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:09 PM CDT [TV Broadcast on FS1]
Posted: October 20, 2018, 10:39 PM Post
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KeithStone53151 said:
Come on you guys. This whining is friggin pathetic. So easy to be a monday morning qb. It's been a fun season. Move on, be optimistic that we can improve


I've been optimistic that we could improve since I went to my first home game in 1979. At what point does the annual optimism just fall by the wayside? At some point, a franchise has to win. Instead, we've had decades of "wait until next year". I'm tired of people feeling the need to blow sunshine up my butt. We can spin all we want, but every year, we lose the last game of the season, and it's become incredibly deflating.

There are three things America will be known for 2000 years from now when they study this civilization: the Constitution, jazz music and baseball. They're the three most beautifully designed things this culture has ever produced. Gerald Early


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