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2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) [Brewers lose, 11-6 -- Rough outing for Peralta]

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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#81

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:00 PM Post
Posts: 15
OldSchoolSnapper said:
The thing is, at some point they were going to move those guys into the rotation and if they believed they were all ready, which they seemed to be for the most part judging their MLB performance last year, then they should have done it. If you think they're ready, you can't go out and sign a bunch of stable starters because those guys will expect to be SP.

If the guys can't play, they can't play, and we would have learned that the hard way whether it was in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Their goal is be competitive sustainably, so there is really no difference in when those young kids play, IF you think believe they can.

I would have liked to see them sign 1 veteran SP to stabilize things, absolutely. But again, with limited resources and confident in your young guys, I can see them maybe believing it wasn't a great use of resources to do so.

I think it all comes back to the worst case scenario unfolding. I'm really doubting that having one vet around with make a big difference in this. There's no guarantee that guy's playing well, and with how bad everyone has been, this is a bigger problem than that.


I hear you my friend. It just sucks that timing-wise they felt all three were ready in the same season when we're supposed to be contending for a WS and then the worst unfolds. What further compounds the misery is spending $18M to lease Grandal for a year if it turns out we can't even compete. I think Grandal is a fantastic addition and money well spent but not when our pitchers don't give us a fighting chance.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#82

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:02 PM Post
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Posts: 3173
There's time for things to improve. I don't play the "We wasted money on Grandal" game because if we don't get him we may be in an even bigger hole if/when things get better. We starting Pina then and have what, Kratz getting backup time? How much worse does a bad lineup look then.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#83

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:17 PM Post
Posts: 6211
So I guess Jackson wasn't an answer either........

I thought that our young starters wou.d have ups and downs.......but they have been rarely good.....at times ok......and mostly really bad.

The bad pitching has bleaded over into the defense today......


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#84

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:28 PM Post
Posts: 1048
OldSchoolSnapper said:
The thing is, at some point they were going to move those guys into the rotation and if they believed they were all ready, which they seemed to be for the most part judging their MLB performance last year, then they should have done it. If you think they're ready, you can't go out and sign a bunch of stable starters because those guys will expect to be SP.

If the guys can't play, they can't play, and we would have learned that the hard way whether it was in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Their goal is be competitive sustainably, so there is really no difference in when those young kids play, IF you believe they can.

I would have liked to see them sign 1 veteran SP to stabilize things, absolutely. But again, with limited resources and confidence in your young guys, I can see them maybe believing it wasn't a great use of resources to do so.

I think it all comes back to the worst case scenario unfolding. I'm really doubting that having one vet around would make a big difference in this. There's no guarantee that guy's playing well, and with how bad everyone has been, this is a bigger problem than that.

Limited resources? Why are they limited? Limited by the salary cap? Luxury taxes? I don't get limited. They found 30 million dollars laying around for Moose and Grandal and I was fine with it. They found a ton of dough to refurbish spring training site. Miley wants an extra million bucks and all of a sudden we are limited? Do not let the small market team off the small market hook.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#85

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:32 PM Post
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Posts: 3173
The resources are limited at some point, you and I don't know what it is. That has nothing to do with a "small market hook." You keep bringing that up, and have for months, and it's getting old. Everyone has limited resources in the sense that the money isn't endless. You can't just go out and get every player you want, and they probably had Grandal high on that list.

Have you also considered that Grandal and Moose can be unloaded if the team is losing? You can't exactly do that with a locked up FA SP if he's not playing well. Those guys are on one-year deals. Also, we don't have a clue what their finances are. And assuming that they rebuilt the spring training site with player contract money? We have no clue how any of that stuff works. That facility is likely financed and was planned years ago.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#86

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:36 PM Post
Posts: 3667
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#87

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:39 PM Post
Posts: 1710
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#88

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:41 PM Post
Posts: 3981
Location: Madison, WI
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#89

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:44 PM Post
Posts: 3667
tmwiese55 said:
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.


Well, sure, however it wouldn't need to be a one year deal. The Grandal, Chacin, & Moustakas money is all coming off the books next year. Braun's money is coming off the books after 2020 etc...

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#90

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:45 PM Post
Posts: 15
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


The reality is they spent money on Moustakas because they didn't think they needed to spend it on pitching during the offseason.

There were ample pitching resources available that Brewers passed on because they thought their internal options were sufficient.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#91

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:46 PM Post
Posts: 3667
rickh150 said:
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.


I like Moustakas, however Keston Hiura has a .680 SLG in AAA right now. Granted I'm just an armchair GM but it seems glaringly obvious that there is a bigger need for pitching than a 2B.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#92

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:50 PM Post
Posts: 3981
Location: Madison, WI
3and2Fastball said:
tmwiese55 said:
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.


Well, sure, however it wouldn't need to be a one year deal. The Grandal, Chacin, & Moustakas money is all coming off the books next year. Braun's money is coming off the books after 2020 etc...


But if you have Yu Darvish's contract on our books right now we're basically effed. Same If Keuchel is bad and you have 20 mil on the books for 4 more years. MKE just can't take those risks, nature of the small market.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#93

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:53 PM Post
Posts: 6211
TH tweet
Counsell says will have to talk about whether Peralta stays in rotation.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#94

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:54 PM Post
Posts: 3981
Location: Madison, WI
3and2Fastball said:
rickh150 said:
3and2Fastball said:
My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.


Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.


I like Moustakas, however Keston Hiura has a .680 SLG in AAA right now. Granted I'm just an armchair GM but it seems glaringly obvious that there is a bigger need for pitching than a 2B.


Sure is obvious right now, for sure. But at the time it was the offense that was our issue most of last year, not pitching. So I understood the logic at the time to eliminate the two blackholes we had last year at C and 2B. They had good P last year and would be adding back in Nelson, hopefully healthy Davies bounceback, full years from Wood/Burnes/Peralta as opposed to half years last year. Logically it made sense to think that would make up for the loss of Miley. Turns out their assessment on P that it would continue to be strong was wrong though, so far at least. Of course injuries to Knebel and JJ killed the BP. But all starters outside of Davies have just been below expectations.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#95

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:56 PM Post
Posts: 15
But if you have Yu Darvish's contract on our books right now we're basically effed. Same If Keuchel is bad and you have 20 mil on the books for 4 more years. MKE just can't take those risks, nature of the small market.[/quote]

I agree and I think that's why Keuchel and Kimbrel aren't signed with anyone now. Small markets know they can't afford the risk associated and bigger payroll markets that could afford realize that their upside isn't that much better than cheaper or younger alternatives that are out there.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#96

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:56 PM Post
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Posts: 6734
markedman5 said:
TH tweet
Counsell says will have to talk about whether Peralta stays in rotation.


Who would have thought that Burch Smith would look like a legitimate rotation option at any point this year? But here we are.

At this point, I just want to see Jimmy Nelson, for the emotional value more than anything.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#97

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:59 PM Post
Posts: 3667
tmwiese55 said:

Sure is obvious right now, for sure. But at the time it was the offense that was our issue most of last year, not pitching. So I understood the logic at the time to eliminate the two blackholes we had last year at C and 2B. They had good P last year and would be adding back in Nelson, hopefully healthy Davies bounceback, full years from Wood/Burnes/Peralta as opposed to half years last year. Logically it made sense to think that would make up for the loss of Miley. Turns out their assessment on P that it would continue to be strong was wrong though, so far at least. Of course injuries to Knebel and JJ killed the BP. But all starters outside of Davies have just been below expectations.
[/quote][/quote]

Makes sense. I appreciate the detailed reply. I get it that hindsight is 20/20 etc

I suppose when they signed Moustakas I thought "wow, Keuchel or Kimbrel must be coming next", and the disappointment that they didn't add pitching has colored my thinking.


Last edited by 3and2Fastball on May 02, 2019, 3:00 PM, edited 1 time in total.

The David Stearns era: Controllable Young Talent. Watch the Jedi work his magic!


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#98

Posted: May 02, 2019, 2:59 PM Post
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Posts: 2059
Not sure why all the angst today over another meltdown from the pitching staff... It's their thing so far and, yes, the brewers are still over 500. These are the kind of starts I expect from Peralta, the really good ones have become the exception. Really when your starter has a pitch repertoire of 94 MPH fastball, 93 MPH fastball and 92 MPH fastball, you aren't getting many COLLEGE players out nevermind MLB players. I would love to hear the brewers thinking with slotting him into a starters role given his limited stuff. Did they really think he was going to be successful? Really?

The run differential is concerning, even this few games into the season. While it's nice to say we are still over 500, without an improvement in the pitching (everyone) then our "improved" offense will just lead us to a 500 non-playoff team adrift with several one-year rentals leaving and a useless Braun sucking up money and playing time...

Go Bucks!

JosephC said:
Stearns probably had no interest in getting a C because the Brewers need a C. It makes much more sense to trade for 3B when it's not needed, and then move the other 3B to 2B, then trade for a 2B, but since the 3B is now at 2B, then the new 2B goes to SS


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
#99

Posted: May 02, 2019, 3:10 PM Post
Posts: 1048
OldSchoolSnapper said:
The resources are limited at some point, you and I don't know what it is. That has nothing to do with a "small market hook." You keep bringing that up, and have for months, and it's getting old. Everyone has limited resources in the sense that the money isn't endless. You can't just go out and get every player you want, and they probably had Grandal high on that list.

Have you also considered that Grandal and Moose can be unloaded if the team is losing? You can't exactly do that with a locked up FA SP if he's not playing well. Those guys are on one-year deals. Also, we don't have a clue what their finances are. And assuming that they rebuilt the spring training site with player contract money? We have no clue how any of that stuff works. That facility is likely financed and was planned years ago.

You just made my point for me old school. Don't mean to offend you by having a different opinion but feel free to ignore mine since you don't like it. No harm done on my end.


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Offline  Re: 2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) 12:10 PM CDT
Posted: May 02, 2019, 3:23 PM Post
Posts: 15
xisxisxis said:
Not sure why all the angst today over another meltdown from the pitching staff... It's their thing so far and, yes, the brewers are still over 500. These are the kind of starts I expect from Peralta, the really good ones have become the exception. Really when your starter has a pitch repertoire of 94 MPH fastball, 93 MPH fastball and 92 MPH fastball, you aren't getting many COLLEGE players out nevermind MLB players. I would love to hear the brewers thinking with slotting him into a starters role given his limited stuff. Did they really think he was going to be successful? Really?

The run differential is concerning, even this few games into the season. While it's nice to say we are still over 500, without an improvement in the pitching (everyone) then our "improved" offense will just lead us to a 500 non-playoff team adrift with several one-year rentals leaving and a useless Braun sucking up money and playing time...

Go Bucks!


My angst today is why Freddy was even slotted in the rotation to begin with. I get it, Chase had his injury but how many games can we throw away this season to horrendous starting pitching in a very competitive division? I think this team will have some lasting success if they go with Chacin-Anderson-Davies-Woodruff-Gonzalez. I'm not even asking for Keuchel or another high profile arm but please no more Burnes and Peralta in the rotation if we want to salvage the season.


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